Jesse Puljujarvi Part 7: No NHL in '19-20 for Jesse P.

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McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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I honestly don't get where this misconception about Jesse Puljujärvi being a skill player comes from. He handles the puck like a grenade, one of the worst stickhandlers I've seen.

Yeah, he isn't a skill player, full-stop. This idea needs to be put to bed. He has skills, obviously, and has a plus shot (albeit wildly inaccurate), but he is very unlikely to ever be a skill player on a NHL team.
 

tellermine

Registered User
Oct 21, 2018
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Köln, Helsinki, Lappeenranta
I don't quite like your condescending tone. I see better stickhandlers myself in my beer league - I still wouldn't say they are more skilled than Pulju. They may be better at one aspect, but their ability to think the game or physical abilites limit them - if not, Pavel Barber would be a perennial allstar. This is nothing new to me. I mean, it's not like hockey is a totally different thing in Finland than in Canada.

Second of all, I wasn't talking about the past when I said that Pulju is a force on the forecheck - sure he had the ability to do that even before, when he was dialed in and played with confidence even in the NHL, but I'm not saying that he did it constantly. In fact, one of my frustrations with Pulju has been that he showed what he can do, but didn't do it constantly. However, I have faith based on what I have seen, that he has learned from his past mistakes.

I must say, that writing here is pretty time consuming, because it's not enough to say something once but you have to keep reiterating your point ad nauseam. I think I'll try to stay away from the boards for awhile - it isn't good to my blood pressure.

One thing is for sure, only time will tell who is right and who is wrong. I only wish that Pulju gets to the NHL asap, so all this speculation will stop and we can just assess what we see in front of our own eyes.

It can be time consuming if you try to proof your point with videos of Roki vs Puljujärvi. :P

But yes. You really cant turn many of us.
It is Pulujärvi's job to show what he is made of!
So take it easy. We will see, sooner or later.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Yeah, he isn't a skill player, full-stop. This idea needs to be put to bed. He has skills, obviously, and has a plus shot (albeit wildly inaccurate), but he is very unlikely to ever be a skill player on a NHL team.

7% scoring percentage on the shots he makes that actually hit the net. On the shots he takes it would probably be closer to around 3-4% of Pulju shots finding twine. Not really a great sign of skill, even his shot.

yeah, I know. Pulju one timed a shot perfectly one time in the NHL. I've seen that goal 100 times in rebuke. But all the same play. ;)

I've seen Pulju toe or mishit the puck more than finish it pure here. Not sure if he needs a different stick, length, or if he just has so much trouble with time and pace here of the game, that he's rattled all the time and not able to anticipate. Much of the time he doesn't even look like he's setup or prepared for a shot. A large part of what allows a good shot to occur is anticipating the pass is coming, where its going to be, and getting set to pull the trigger.
 
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Bank Shot

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Jan 18, 2006
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I'll be honest I have no idea how scouts ranked him that highly, like a player like Jurco from a quick eye test has more skill (better puck handling, more accurate shot release).

Size/skating combo is the answer.

Benoit Pouliot went 4th overall.

I'm sure playing with Laine/Aho in the World Junior showcase zoomed him a lot as well. His numbers in the Finish league weren't eye popping in his draft year.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
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Size/skating combo is the answer.

Benoit Pouliot went 4th overall.

I'm sure playing with Laine/Aho in the World Junior showcase zoomed him a lot as well. His numbers in the Finish league weren't eye popping in his draft year.

I feel like Quinton Byfield has the exact same bust potential because of this.
 

Drivesaitl

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Size/skating combo is the answer.

Benoit Pouliot went 4th overall.

I'm sure playing with Laine/Aho in the World Junior showcase zoomed him a lot as well. His numbers in the Finish league weren't eye popping in his draft year.

That hockey scouting doesn't even parse out and delineate player specific cause and effect should be shocking. I mean this is professional scouting, as a vocation. Yet analytically they seem to be having trouble discerning individual impact. That in the new milennium, with endless data, film, constant ability to review player, all their games, different teams configs, its remarkable how wrong this pick was at #4, and how much it was artifact of limited sample in a profile tournament (that still happens) and who the player was playing with. I mean a lot of linemates are going to look good playing alongside Aho and Laine.
 

Whyme

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Nov 3, 2019
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What did I specifically state that was rude? Forward? yes, all day, guilty as claimed. As I think we've discussed its a tacit part of my employment to cut right to the chase and be direct. To be clear. To rebut, to discuss differences.

What is rude is assuming about other peoples posts, or their intent, and stating it as some sort of rebuke without citing what actually was rude. Nor did you or anybody approach me with this, as I would in PM, and clarify. No, you and others chose to pile on. I could even state THAT is rude.

Finally, its ironic you state the bolded isn't it? Because if we're being honest here a few posters, that are Finnish are lining up to state I and others shouldn't state things On the Edmonton Oilers board and in instances where we are the fans of the actual club. Theres a few posters here that are selective, and only Pulju posters here. Telling me everything thats wrong with my posts on the topic. Not the first time either. 2 weeks ago I was being told to "have some class" Why all the attack, and then pretending that side of it doesn't exist? The actual answer? because alignment on this thread is forming around Pulju, as it has before, and that is the dynamic.

I actually wanted to come and write to explain my words and to say I believe you are a good guy after all, but I was away for the day. I apologize if you felt attacked by me. However, I think you indeed were rude and I felt what you said to other posters was kind of directed towards me, too, even if you didn't mean it like that. We all have off days and off posts and I think you had one or two earlier. These kind of discussions are reminding me of why it's better to stay and I feel this is turning to waste of time, but I'll try to explain quickly.

It's rude to raise you Canadians above others as if the other countries wouldn't have passionate hockey culture and fans who understand about hockey. It's also rude to call e.g. Finnish leagues beer leagues as some (and I'm pretty sure also you) have done. It's not the NHL, but if you don't take things that happen in European leagues seriously you can start doing the same with other North American leagues. After all no-one is saying doing things in Finland means the same things can be done as easily in the NHL.

I also don't like when European posters are pushed away. You accused another poster of writing too much while you give yourself a right to post lots and lots more. You also said the Oilers fans are annoyed by those positive/optimistic posts about Jesse, which I think is wrong and was unnecessary. That means you are basically saying my posts aren't welcome either.

So many European posters have been pushed away and I am afraid the same thing is happening again. I don't know how thick @HockeyHistorian 's skin is. I hope it's thick enough and he understands you didn't mean anything bad, but I agree with him that it's tough when opinions have to be explained over and over again and when it feels one has to be careful with choice of words as one wrong choice may lead to another bunch or useless posting back and forth.

However, I understand we all have different backgrounds and a part of this all is misunderstanding. I never meant to get too involved and I certainly don't want to annoy anyone here, so if the Oilers fans want to concentrate on just negative things about Pulju as you do that's fine, I promise I'll then stay out for good. However, I feel many others don't share your thoughts in this and take our posts as they like, after all they don't have to put weight on those videos if they don't.
 

The Nuge

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Jan 26, 2011
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Size/skating combo is the answer.

Benoit Pouliot went 4th overall.

I'm sure playing with Laine/Aho in the World Junior showcase zoomed him a lot as well. His numbers in the Finish league weren't eye popping in his draft year.

I don’t disagree with your premise, but he literally only had 5 less points than Laine that year, and he outscored Laine by a decent margin at the World Juniors. His game hasn’t translated as well as hoped and him/his agent aren’t doing him any favours
 
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Drivesaitl

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I actually wanted to come and write to explain my words and to say I believe you are a good guy after all, but I was away for the day. I apologize if you felt attacked by me. However, I think you indeed were rude and I felt what you said to other posters was kind of directed towards me, too, even if you didn't mean it like that. We all have off days and off posts and I think you had one or two earlier. These kind of discussions are reminding me of why it's better to stay and I feel this is turning to waste of time, but I'll try to explain quickly.

It's rude to raise you Canadians above others as if the other countries wouldn't have passionate hockey culture and fans who understand about hockey. It's also rude to call e.g. Finnish leagues beer leagues as some (and I'm pretty sure also you) have done. It's not the NHL, but if you don't take things that happen in European leagues seriously you can start doing the same with other North American leagues. After all no-one is saying doing things in Finland means the same things can be done as easily in the NHL.

I also don't like when European posters are pushed away. You accused another poster of writing too much while you give yourself a right to post lots and lots more. You also said the Oilers fans are annoyed by those positive/optimistic posts about Jesse, which I think is wrong and was unnecessary. That means you are basically saying my posts aren't welcome either.


So many European posters have been pushed away and I am afraid the same thing is happening again. I don't know how thick @HockeyHistorian 's skin is. I hope it's thick enough and he understands you didn't mean anything bad, but I agree with him that it's tough when opinions have to be explained over and over again and when it feels one has to be careful with choice of words as one wrong choice may lead to another bunch or useless posting back and forth.

However, I understand we all have different backgrounds and a part of this all is misunderstanding. I never meant to get too involved and I certainly don't want to annoy anyone here, so if the Oilers fans want to concentrate on just negative things about Pulju as you do that's fine, I promise I'll then stay out for good. However, I feel many others don't share your thoughts in this and take our posts as they like, after all they don't have to put weight on those videos if they don't.

I did not state or tell posters the bolded. To wit at no point was I indicating Canadians are above others. You read that into it, and I'm not sure why and you still are, even after I clarified, which I do not have to do. I take responsibility for my statements, but not for hubris that anybody reads into them, and frankly your're doing that in the bolded. That is flat out strawman attack.

Nor is my intent to push away. I'm not saying anything derogatory about posters or pushing away. i did state about one poster, named after Pulju that they only post here about Pulju, and that similar frictions have occurred with that poster. I NEVER stated Hockey Historian is writing too much. I mean really don't invent stuff I didn't state, thats on you.

But heres the thing. I'm a long time contributor here on an Oilers board. I've been a fan of the Edmonton Oilers since 1972. I'm a died in the wool Edmontonian, posting on an Edmonton board, on the Edmonton Oilers. While I don't feel I have a right to do so, I feel like I should be able to offer my takes in discussion, and not have them be attacked (Which is precisely what has occured)

Now on the other hand several other posters in this thread are relative visitors to this board. Yet some of those posters are being a tad bit aggressive in relation to being visitors. If I'm posing in a SEL board, and I don't, i wouldn't be posting the same things I'm stating. or on a Finnish board. I would comport myself with a lot more grace. But I'm posting on my home board. This seems not at all very understood. These posts, by me, are occurring here, on the edmonton Oilers hf board. So I take more license with that.

For sure if I'm visiting on some other board I'm not stating that those posters are classless, rude, offensive, dishonest, lying etc. All of which has occurred, and by the visitors, and you've done some of that too. I see that as poor form. Not good grace either and that initiated some of the tensions. Fair?

Now can we calm down and let everybody continue to post?
 

Whyme

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I did not state or tell posters the bolded. To wit at no point was I indicating Canadians are above others. You read that into it, and I'm not sure why and you still are, even after I clarified, which I do not have to do. I take responsibility for my statements, but not for hubris that anybody reads into them, and frankly your're doing that in the bolded. That is flat out strawman attack.

Nor is my intent to push away. I'm not saying anything derogatory about posters or pushing away. i did state about one poster, named after Pulju that they only post here about Pulju, and that similar frictions have occurred with that poster. I NEVER stated Hockey Historian is writing too much. I mean really don't invent stuff I didn't state, thats on you.

But heres the thing. I'm a long time contributor here on an Oilers board. I've been a fan of the Edmonton Oilers since 1972. I'm a died in the wool Edmontonian, posting on an Edmonton board, on the Edmonton Oilers. While I don't feel I have a right to do so, I feel like I should be able to offer my takes in discussion, and not have them be attacked (Which is precisely what has occured)

Now on the other hand several other posters in this thread are relative visitors to this board. Yet some of those posters are being a tad bit aggressive in relation to being visitors. If I'm posing in a SEL board, and I don't, i wouldn't be posting the same things I'm stating. or on a Finnish board. I would comport myself with a lot more grace. But I'm posting on my home board. This seems not at all very understood. These posts, by me, are occurring here, on the edmonton Oilers hf board. So I take more license with that.

For sure if I'm visiting on some other board I'm not stating that those posters are classless, rude, offensive, dishonest, lying etc. All of which has occurred, and by the visitors, and you've done some of that too. I see that as poor form. Not good grace either and that initiated some of the tensions. Fair?

Now can we calm down and let everybody continue to post?


Again I apologize whenever I took you wrong, which obviously happened a few times. However, maybe you don't think about it, but it feels like you threw some unnecessary insults and yes your posts gave me a feeling that some others don't have a similar right to say about their thoughts. You also suggested there's no comparable hockey culture and passion in Finland, that's how my English understood it anyway, and you called the Finnish players punters. I'm just saying these once so you'd hopefully understood why I wasn't the only one who felt like this.

I believe a trip over here could do you some good as you might very well find the passion and even the playing style are surprisingly similar. That doesn't mean the level is anywhere close to comparable to the NHL, but we still have some high-quality hockey and a country with a huge passion towards hockey, which is why such a small country does pretty well in the international tournaments and has quite many players drafted so high. As a nation and a hockey nation we're not that far actually, that's one of the reasons why Canada would probably be my first choice if I needed to live somewhere outside of Europe for the rest of my life.
 

Drivesaitl

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Again I apologize whenever I took you wrong, which obviously happened a few times. However, maybe you don't think about it, but it feels like you threw some unnecessary insults and yes your posts gave me a feeling that some others don't have a similar right to say about their thoughts. You also suggested there's no comparable hockey culture and passion in Finland, that's how my English understood it anyway, and you called the Finnish players punters. I'm just saying these once so you'd hopefully understood why I wasn't the only one who felt like this.

I believe a trip over here could do you some good as you might very well find the passion and even the playing style are surprisingly similar. That doesn't mean the level is anywhere close to comparable to the NHL, but we still have some high-quality hockey and a country with a huge passion towards hockey, which is why such a small country does pretty well in the international tournaments and has quite many players drafted so high. As a nation and a hockey nation we're not that far actually, that's one of the reasons why Canada would probably be my first choice if I needed to live somewhere outside of Europe for the rest of my life.

For clarity don't read too much into a couple of the drivebys that have taken place in this thread. A couple of the posters don't even post in this thread, but they saw an opportunity to bash something due to previous conflicts in other threads. One of the posters has been banned from the Coronavirus threads at least a dozen times.

State clearly one such insult. I have not made those, it has been felt, inferred. I have every respect for the Finnish nation, I am on record in this thread mentioning the indomitable spirit, the fight (evident,heh) and I respect the nation and its people. Some of my favorite post Oilers were players Kurri, and Tikkanen.

In anycase please know I love Finnish players, Finland, heh more than I do Swedish players..

Countless times in world tourneys I've cheered for Finland over Russia, Sweden, USA, heh, Czechs etc. of European nations historically i've liked Finnish and Czech hockey the most, and often due to their underdog relationship with former Soviet Russia. Heh, I had these feelings, passions, before some of you were born (please don't see that as insult)

But again point out clearly in reading my posts (not thinking about what you think you saw, but going back and actually reading and try to pick out what were actually insults. ) You won't find any. its been inferred.

I appreciate you engaging, and having the discussion, but I'm defending what I've stated and clarifying what I've stated.

But alas the language barrier seems to explain some of what are the differences in how what was stated can get perceived.

I've had Finnish friends as well ftr and have worked with some as well. I will say one thing that Finnish people I have known like to process, discuss, but sometimes, and I'm trying not to generalize, can be offended with something. Its hard to know as a Canadian what might be troubling for a Finn to hear. Similarly its hard for a Finn to know if they have said something troubling. This is part of the chasm that discussion amongst different cultures involves. There is more than just language barrier. But we try to persevere through that and become one with our exchanges.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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Feb 19, 2003
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I think the discussion got a bit sidetracked with some heated opinions. Just want to say from my pov I hope this thread and the Oiler board is open minded and welcoming of outside opinions that provide a different perspective of this franchise and its players.

I'm grateful for the Finnish posters who have respectfully shared your opinions having both most recently seen Puljujarvi in professional league competition and have watched the player for years including prior to his draft year. Among our Finnish 'delegation', opinions also seem split over what Pully's upside might ultimately be, his deficiencies holding the player back, and what went wrong in his NHL tenure in Edmonton. So really none of us have a handle on what went sideways with this elite blue chip prospect thought to be can't miss and whether Puljujarvi will be able to redeem the consensus that existed on 17 year old raw talent.

What can be said is the Finnish Lion's Road program which completely reset the development approach to its hockey players. The results have been stellar with high skilled Finnish players now consistently among the NHL and world's best. I love the focus on skill development and the support system provided to nurture creativity versus an overriding focus on system play and fitting in to a more rigid approach. Found this article interesting: How Finland has emerged as a hockey superpower

We'll see what happens with Puljujarvi. But maybe we as Finns and Canucks can get behind a hybrid prospect with good Saskatchewan (Canadian) roots and raised in Finland! ;) IIHF - Lambert in lion’s clothing
 

Dorian2

Define that balance
Jul 17, 2009
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Hey Finnish posters. Thanks for the news on Puljujarvi. Appreciate the updates. I personally think he has the wings of a butterfly! ;)

 

Whyme

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Nov 3, 2019
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As it seems at least some kind of reports from Finland are fine I'll write quickly that today Pulju's FEL team Kärpät had their first preseason game against another FEL team Jyp. Kärpät won 3-0 with Pulju getting 1+1. Still just preseason of course.
 

Aerchon

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
10,491
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I think the discussion got a bit sidetracked with some heated opinions. Just want to say from my pov I hope this thread and the Oiler board is open minded and welcoming of outside opinions that provide a different perspective of this franchise and its players.

I'm grateful for the Finnish posters who have respectfully shared your opinions having both most recently seen Puljujarvi in professional league competition and have watched the player for years including prior to his draft year. Among our Finnish 'delegation', opinions also seem split over what Pully's upside might ultimately be, his deficiencies holding the player back, and what went wrong in his NHL tenure in Edmonton. So really none of us have a handle on what went sideways with this elite blue chip prospect thought to be can't miss and whether Puljujarvi will be able to redeem the consensus that existed on 17 year old raw talent.

What can be said is the Finnish Lion's Road program which completely reset the development approach to its hockey players. The results have been stellar with high skilled Finnish players now consistently among the NHL and world's best. I love the focus on skill development and the support system provided to nurture creativity versus an overriding focus on system play and fitting in to a more rigid approach. Found this article interesting: How Finland has emerged as a hockey superpower

We'll see what happens with Puljujarvi. But maybe we as Finns and Canucks can get behind a hybrid prospect with good Saskatchewan (Canadian) roots and raised in Finland! ;) IIHF - Lambert in lion’s clothing

To make things more confusing I honestly believe some are mixing up Puljujarvi with Yakupov. They have them linked in their heads and project Puljujarvi with Yakupovs history.

Many also seem to forget that Puljujarvi had a nagging injury that got worse as his last season went on. If you only looked at his last 20 games or so you don't get a very good picture of his overall play.
 
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