Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[SnuggaRUDE]

I mean come on, nobody is asking for anything that you went on in that last paragraph.

I mean Wahlstrom is a silly add, and I have to be honest, given his shot and speed, do we really think he wouldn't be an upgrade over Sobotka in this role?

I'm not going to argue about the other guys, haven't had enough time this year to watch the league to judge those guys this early in, but it's not really the point. He hasn't performed better than those guys. He plays with two very good offensive players and kills the puck.

I could make a list of moves, done it before, and all that will happen is ppl will compile the typical excuses about how its so hard to do anything good in this league.

How low is the freaking bar? Sobotka was super trash last year. He grumbled during the year, didn't produce and was lazy physically for much of the year.

Nobody is asking for botts to find a gem to replace him. They are asking for a girgensons level player to replace him.

If that is just too much to expect from Botts, I just don't know what the point is to discuss anything, because the standard for what botts is expected to be able to do is ephemeral.

At this point in his career if you're playing one game for all the marbles you'd play Sobotka over Wahlstrom. If the question becomes which is more valuable it's Wahlstrom in a slam dunk.

I did some work, who would you like Buffalo to target at RW? Everyone's super aggressive in platitudes and generalities. Let's get specific.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

My specifics are that next year the cap won't allow any significant FW upgrades beyond what a Ristolainen/Montour trade will allow. We're looking at the only differences being Sobotka, Vesey and Sheary out, Asplund, Thompson in, and someone hopefully better from a RHD trade up to the cost of about 5-6 mil. Sure, there could be a bunch of other moves (replacing Rodrigues, Larsson, or Girgensons if they are not re-signed), but we're talking about replacements in the 1-2 mil range that aren't moving the needle much.

 

[sabrebuild]

At this point in his career if you're playing one game for all the marbles you'd play Sobotka over Wahlstrom. If the question becomes which is more valuable it's Wahlstrom in a slam dunk.

I did some work, who would you like Buffalo to target at RW? Everyone's super aggressive in platitudes and generalities. Let's get specific.

If you were playing one game for all the marbles you would be an idiot to play either in the top 6.

If I had to choose between which guy I want to give 7 minutes to on a fourth line wing, I would rather have Wahlstrom, and it's not particularly close.

We know Sobotka will bring zero offense, and defensively he is average, when he is giving a f***. At least with a Wahlstrom type, because god knows this is an absurd sample size, I can put him on a wing with a girgs/Larson pair and have him be the wing who cheats, but if sprung can finish.

But whatever, its still conceding that Sobotka is one of the worst players at his position, let alone with his ice time.

The big challenge, give you names of players to trade for.

The easy big name trades bandied as available,

Toffoli in LA
Zucker in Minnesota

Free agents during the summer

Bellemare
Boyle
Donskoi

Smaller trades in season will be up in the air at this point.

But from memory, those guys were all available and would have been upgrades. I'm not interested in the inevitable retorts about them wanting to come here or not, blah blah.

The reality is Sobotka has been a bum for years and our gm intentionally acquired him, and seems happy with it.

It's a boring argument, that is shockingly being defended.

 

[OkimLom]

Jason Botterill: Eye for the talented players, that everyone else can see are talented, poor at constructing an actual professional hockey team.

 

[Steddy33]

It's hilarity at it's finest when almost every game people bitch about how soft this team is and how no one steps up. That's on the GM. The players are who they've always been. It's on the GM to bring in guys with an edge if you don't want a soft team

 

[HaNotsri]

I heard he might be considering thinking about the possibility of investigating the option of looking into forwards that could be available sometime in the future depending on the situation.

 

[Fjordy]

Now the heavy market and especially the team in Sweden, is not the time for deals.

 

[SundherDome]

I heard he might be considering thinking about the possibility of investigating the option of looking into forwards that could be available sometime in the future depending on the situation.

This whole post pissed me off, it's not fair

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

I heard he might be considering thinking about the possibility of investigating the option of looking into forwards that could be available sometime in the future depending on the situation.

I call BS, that's only a scenario.

 

[Buffaloed]

I heard he might be considering thinking about the possibility of investigating the option of looking into forwards that could be available sometime in the future depending on the situation.

We could discuss having a discussion about that when the time is right.

 

[Tatanka]

At this point in his career if you're playing one game for all the marbles you'd play Sobotka over Wahlstrom. If the question becomes which is more valuable it's Wahlstrom in a slam dunk.

I did some work, who would you like Buffalo to target at RW? Everyone's super aggressive in platitudes and generalities. Let's get specific.

Toffoli

 

[Tatanka]

One of the smart things arch villain Murray did in the ROR acquisition was get McGinn as well. Rookie Jack was a target and McGinn and Kane were insurance. McGinn also went the front of the net creating space. I think Mitts needs his McGinn. A big body that parks in front and draws a d into the house. Right now he drives into coverage because there is no other option. No space, no teaffic in front. No chaos. Mitts may be better on the wing but if he is not going to play there, get him a Clifford or someone to create mayhem in front.

 

[sabrebuild]

With an expected raise to 8 a year for Reinhart and 4 a year for Olof, and minor bumps for stalwart bottom 6, a 2.5 bridge for mitts if he can produce a little better the rest of the year. Small raise for ulmark, gets the total to roughly 79 million, not counting Hodgsons dead hit.

Leaves about 3 million with 3 fwd spots to fill.

I feel like I have vague memory of being told that 20-21 was Botts great plan when all those mean Murray contracts came off the books.

That bridge deal for Reinhart continues to look foolish.

 

[Tatanka]

With an expected raise to 8 a year for Reinhart and 4 a year for Olof, and minor bumps for stalwart bottom 6, a 2.5 bridge for mitts if he can produce a little better the rest of the year. Small raise for ulmark, gets the total to roughly 79 million, not counting Hodgsons dead hit.

Leaves about 3 million with 3 fwd spots to fill.

I feel like I have vague memory of being told that 20-21 was Botts great plan when all those mean Murray contracts came off the books.

That bridge deal for Reinhart continues to look foolish.

Why are we giving Victor 4? He will take less.

 

[Fjordy]

He has not yet been fired because of inaction?

 

[Ace]

Now they have another several day break before embarking on the worst schedule in hockey history as a result of the trip. So this season is going to go down in a hurry. Will we get the 4th straight year of a GM doing nothing while it does?

 

[Chainshot]

Now they have another several day break before embarking on the worst schedule in hockey history as a result of the trip. So this season is going to go down in a hurry. Will we get the 4th straight year of a GM doing nothing while it does?

And he'll get people who line up to defend his inaction.

His tenure has been beyond exhausting.

 

[Bferra13]

I'm ready to move on. Stop... Hiring... Pittsburgh... People.... Pens are an entire franchise built on lottery balls and good timing. I like Ralph. He stays. Bills better give me a better day tomorrow.

 

[joshjull]

The pieces are there for a good well rounded defense after a Risto trade: Montour, Dahlin, Joker, Miller, McCabe, Borgen, Pilut, Gilmour, Scandella. But Botts has to move out Risto and maybe another dman so Krueger and staff can to start putting those pieces together on the NHL roster.

 

[sabrebuild]

Why are we giving Victor 4? He will take less.

Thought it is a safe number. Mitts got 2.5 for example, which is probably the high end unless he picks it up.

Sure he will be an rfa, but if he drops 30 goals, we are either doing the short stupid bridge or hopefully a long term Arviddson style deal.

Would you rather have him for two years at 2.5-3 or 6 years at 4-4.5. heck even if you get him cheap for short term, you only save a million or two.

I trust that shot to be very effective for the next 3-5 years. I'd go long.

 

[sabrebuild]

That Reinhart bridge is gonna be expensive.

If he finishes the year at around 70 points, around 30 goals. We are buying a lot of ufa years. He is going to flirt with Skinner money.

 

[Tatanka]

Thought it is a safe number. Mitts got 2.5 for example, which is probably the high end unless he picks it up.

Sure he will be an rfa, but if he drops 30 goals, we are either doing the short stupid bridge or hopefully a long term Arviddson style deal.

Would you rather have him for two years at 2.5-3 or 6 years at 4-4.5. heck even if you get him cheap for short term, you only save a million or two.

I trust that shot to be very effective for the next 3-5 years. I'd go long.

At 25 yo when signed I go with the shorter term. He hasn’t shown that he will be an Arviddson type player 5 v5. Worry about it later. If you lose him, trade him for something useful. Jmho.

 

[sabrebuild]

At 25 yo when signed I go with the shorter term. He hasn’t shown that he will be an Arviddson type player 5 v5. Worry about it later. If you lose him, trade him for something useful. Jmho.

Fair enough. But at some point we need some bargain deals.

The teams current structure is going to suck, particularly for a crap team.

Reinhart is getting paid, Dahlin is getting paid.

Maybe we get a deal on Mitts if he pops after this year. Or maybe with Cozens down the road.

But, this is a lot of money in a group that can't win.

Eich 10
Skin 9
Reinhart 8
Dahlin 9
Risto 5.4 for now and more if we resign.

 

[Tatanka]

Fair enough. But at some point we need some bargain deals.

The teams current structure is going to suck, particularly for a crap team.

Reinhart is getting paid, Dahlin is getting paid.

Maybe we get a deal on Mitts if he pops after this year. Or maybe with Cozens down the road.

But, this is a lot of money in a group that can't win.

Eich 10
Skin 9
Reinhart 8
Dahlin 9
Risto 5.4 for now and more if we resign.

Build a winner before we worry about paying people in my book. Dahlin will not get 9. He will get 7 for 6 especially at this pace. Sam might get traded as he isn’t a Botts guy. And if Botts isn’t here next year possibly no one is safe. I don’t worry about paying people until they prove they deserve it. Again jmho.

 

[sabrebuild]

Build a winner before we worry about paying people in my book. Dahlin will not get 9. He will get 7 for 6 especially at this pace. Sam might get traded as he isn’t a Botts guy. And if Botts isn’t here next year possibly no one is safe. I don’t worry about paying people until they prove they deserve it. Again jmho.

Building a winner costs cap. You can't just wave it away, while building said winner.

On Dahlin, by this pace you mean a sophomore year where he is "slumping" and on pace for 58 points... Let's assume he cleans things up and finishes the year with 60 points and solid defense. Do you really want to wait out that contract, for him to "prove" it in year 3.

I'm all for opinions, but the cap doesn't much care about opinions. Since it has been introduced, cup teams are generally dominated by multiple players outperforming their contracts.