Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[Sabresfansince1980]

That's not wrong.. Its the drumbeat that also allows sobotka Rodrigo to persist like a cancer in our lineup when a little surgery paid for by a d auction. Would change the entire lame attitude thats crept back and never shouldve started the year

I'm eagerly awaitng a RHD trade just like almost everyone else.

 

[Steddy33]

and they all went to different teams. in what world do you think we manage to pull off trades for all of them? and in a trade market with competing interests? don't you see how unrealistic and unsustainable that kind of management style is?

that's 3rd rounders, a 2nd rounder, a good prospect, and a roster player, all for 3 guys that their teams saw as expendable... where do we get the assets to make these trades? and how do we keep the farm alive?

the answer is simple, we don't. you can't have your cake and eat it too

We didn't need all of them or even 2. One was fine. We need a center.

We certainly didn't need Vesey. Anyone who watch play the last 2 seasons knew he was garbage.

 

[Chainshot]

Bott's in the Regier bunker sweatin bullets this week....wait, what was that sound ? Was that the black widow ?

]Nah, just the espresso machine being plugged back in after they used the Michael Zigomanis Memorial Fax Machine.

 

[Chainshot]

save the ror trade/housley, which I think we all can agree weren't necessarily optimal moves,

Two of the worst modern moves of the team are not to be exempted from his body of work.

 

[old kummelweck]

Curious if anyone else thought the Krueger hire was 'exec in waiting' from the Pegula standpoint?

 

[slip]

Curious if anyone else thought the Krueger hire was 'exec in waiting' from the Pegula standpoint?

Well he does satisfy the “zero experience” quality they desperately covet in a GM.

 

[OkimLom]

save the ror trade/housley, which I think we all can agree weren't necessarily optimal moves, this is exactly what botteril has done, not to mention the fact that he had almost ZERO assets or prospects to work with in comparison to successful organizations around the league.

I'm not sure what you mean by having the middle 6 'structured'. you either have players that can play those roles, or you don't. and it's not like they're easy to acquire... it takes assets and/or spending irresponsibly in betting wars during FA.

botteril has made a lot of good moves, more good than bad, while rebuilding the framework of the organization on all levels. I'm not against criticism of the clunkers, but I also don't think you can make blanket statements citing 1 or 2 roster moves, which is what people are doing to justify their bias that has been accrued over a very short period of poor results this year (5 games). no one was complaining when we were winning a bunch of games? so what's different now?

and alas, we still have a winning record, even amidst the slump. he's obviously improved the state of the team....

Botterill is in competition with the other current GMs. He's not in competition with seasons of the past. Basing Botterill's ability on how much of an improvement his team is on years past which we have deemed failures, shouldn't be something we should be celebrating. We should be seeing where the team is vs the current competition. Outside of the boost of a new coach, this team has shown itself to be on the same levels as years past. Don't get me wrong, there's more talent on the team than what was here, but it says something about the construction and makeup of the team, that with the boost of the talent on the team, the needle has not been moved that much in terms of our standing compared to the rest of the league.

 

[Member 308457]

I for one have not forgotten about the lack of return on the Evander Kane trade(s). We got ripped one way and out the other. Insult to injury, when we traded him to the Sharks, we got nothing back. People forget about how we painted ourselves into a corner with Evander although the trade with ROR has got to be one of the worst ever, unless Tage develops...

 

[OkimLom]

I for one have not forgotten about the lack of return on the Evander Kane trade(s). We got ripped one way and out the other. Insult to injury, when we traded him to the Sharks, we got nothing back. People forget about how we painted ourselves into a corner with Evander although the trade with ROR has got to be one of the worst ever, unless Tage develops...

Meh, one had term remaining, the other didn't. The Kane return, though underwhelming at the time, was only saved because San Jose was able to re-sign him. The guy wasn't staying here. It doesn't really strike for me on the top 10 list of moves I didn't like from Botts.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

Curious if anyone else thought the Krueger hire was 'exec in waiting' from the Pegula standpoint?

Interesting, although I do think Krueger was Botts hire and Housley was a Pegulas hire.

 

[Tatanka]

Meh, one had term remaining, the other didn't. The Kane return, though underwhelming at the time, was only saved because San Jose was able to re-sign him. The guy wasn't staying here. It doesn't really strike for me on the top 10 list of moves I didn't like from Botts.

Proof? This has been bantered about as fact and I only remember an article where Kane stated no offer was made.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

Why do Sabres fans think other GM's in the league will give up good players for our junk ?

 

[Der Jaeger]

Why do Sabres fans think other GM's in the league will give up good players for our junk ?

You can post this statement on 30 other team boards, and it would fit.

It’s the HF way.

 

[OkimLom]

Why do Sabres fans think other GM's in the league will give up good players for our junk ?

Because GMs are creatures of egos. They tend to believe that THEY can get the most out of a player. The issue is for Buffalo, we are usually the last bit of hope for players. If you can't produce in Buffalo, your career is pretty much dead.

 

[OkimLom]

Proof? This has been bantered about as fact and I only remember an article where Kane stated no offer was made.

It was more of an opinion statement more than fact with evidence. I had the opinion just based on the state of the team (this was the team that ended up last). We also didn't have the right culture, as a team or as a city for Kane.

 

[valet]

Two of the worst modern moves of the team are not to be exempted from his body of work.

i didn't exempt them, i named them explicitly???

 

[Tatanka]

It was more of an opinion statement more than fact with evidence. I had the opinion just based on the state of the team (this was the team that ended up last). We also didn't have the right culture, as a team or as a city for Kane.

And I am not singling you out. On the contrary, your posts are generally well researched and thoughtful. But this meme disguises a different issue. If no offer was made, then a determination was made that Kane was not wanted. If that is the case it bears on talent evaluation. If like the “other” trade it was dictated, well then that is a whole different kettle of fish. So if you can’t keep him for cap reasons, it likely depresses his value and the return is reasonable. If you decide he is not part of the solution yet a playoff team is, well ...nevermind. Carry on.

 

[OkimLom]

And I am not singling you out. On the contrary, your posts are generally well researched and thoughtful. But this meme disguises a different issue. If no offer was made, then a determination was made that Kane was not wanted. If that is the case it bears on talent evaluation. If like the “other” trade it was dictated, well then that is a whole different kettle of fish. So if you can’t keep him for cap reasons, it likely depresses his value and the return is reasonable. If you decide he is not part of the solution yet a playoff team is, well ...nevermind. Carry on.

that’s fair, I just think it was your typical UFA to be, type of move.

 

[Chainshot]

i didn't exempt them, i named them explicitly???

"Save for..." implies an exception. So his two massive f***-ups get a pass because he's had some other good moves in his tenure? He isn't in a position where he can afford multiple f***-ups and he had two mammoth ones.

 

[valet]

"Save for..." implies an exception. So his two massive ****-ups get a pass because he's had some other good moves in his tenure? He isn't in a position where he can afford multiple ****-ups and he had two mammoth ones.

I think you're overreacting dude..... your opinion about those decisions is valid. And a lot of people agree with you. But it might do your argument more justice to make it in a civil way, instead of screaming at people... On the Internet

maybe try looking at the good and seeing both sides of the equation before drawing conclusions. You can't just take 2 pieces of information (1 which has already been corrected by the GM), and label him 'bad'. it's silly, and doesn't do the bigger picture any justice whatsoever

and just fyi, 'save for' does imply an exception. And the exception was that I think that other than those 2 decisions, botteril has done an above average job correcting the path this organization was on. I never gave him a pass. I listed the pros and cons, and you decided to only focus on the cons then have a freakout about how bad botteril is

 

[joshjull]

"Save for..." implies an exception. So his two massive ****-ups get a pass because he's had some other good moves in his tenure? He isn't in a position where he can afford multiple ****-ups and he had two mammoth ones.

I’ve given Botts more credit than you (massive understatement )

But the biggest sin I can’t forgive yet is Housley. It completely negated the other things Botts did well.

Pilut is a prime example of this. Getting Pilut was a coup. Sending him to Rochester to adapt to NA ice and play with a vet like Redmond went amazing. Then he gets called up and Phil destroys his confidence. To the point that he was ineffective on his return to the Amerks. Phil effectively negated the addition of Pilut and ruined him for the Amerks playoff run. From AHL all star to meh.

 

[valet]

Botterill is in competition with the other current GMs. He's not in competition with seasons of the past. Basing Botterill's ability on how much of an improvement his team is on years past which we have deemed failures, shouldn't be something we should be celebrating. We should be seeing where the team is vs the current competition. Outside of the boost of a new coach, this team has shown itself to be on the same levels as years past. Don't get me wrong, there's more talent on the team than what was here, but it says something about the construction and makeup of the team, that with the boost of the talent on the team, the needle has not been moved that much in terms of our standing compared to the rest of the league.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Of the teams that were in our position last year (bottom 5), we've improved the most. now, we're not really gonna be able to make a full determination until the season is over, so I guess we can't push this conversation any further until we have all the information we need

 

[OkimLom]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Of the teams that were in our position last year (bottom 5), we've improved the most. now, we're not really gonna be able to make a full determination until the season is over, so I guess we can't push this conversation any further until we have all the information we need

we are literally EXACTLY where we were last year points-wise this time last year. Same exact record to boot. That put us at 11th place last year. This year, we’re in 18th place.

Edit: this year we have less goals for, less shots for, less goals against, and more shots against.

 

[Beerz]

Why do Sabres fans think other GM's in the league will give up good players for our junk ?

Because ours has.

It's only fair.

 

[valet]

we are literally EXACTLY where we were last year points-wise this time last year. Same exact record to boot. That put us at 11th place last year. This year, we’re in 18th place.

Edit: this year we have less goals for, less shots for, less goals against, and more shots against.

where are you getting that information? not to argue, just curious