Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[Montag DP]

And at the end of the day, that's what matters. The conversation isnt "Could i be a better GM than Botterill?" its "Would his replacement do any better, given what we know about who teams hire as general managers?"

Well dang, when you put it that way, the solution becomes obvious. NHL owners should just start hiring HFBoards posters as GMs.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I still think you'll find few GM's that operate up the the fanbases' idea of perfect.

Carolina has nailed a lot of moves but beyond that it's not like GM's are all making strong move after strong move while JB is tripping over himself.

I dont think it's wrong for fans to criticize the bad moves, there just has to be some acknowledgement that if Botts was fired today its far from a guarantee the franchise would get better, because they current pool of NHL GM hopefuls is still meh.

And at the end of the day, that's what matters. The conversation isnt "Could i be a better GM than Botterill?" its "Would his replacement do any better, given what we know about who teams hire as general managers?"

Im sure they will fire him when we are 9-2-2 just because the hfboards sabres board wants tradezzz.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

It would be nice to upgrade someone on the second line over Sobotka, that would be my only personal request. I'm not sure where that comes from. If someone falls out of favor, we just need to jump. Similar to the Perlini to Detroit, while he wouldn't have been the greatest fit, he's 23 and has scored 14 and 17 goals in the last two years. Though he's essentially Vesey.

 

[sabremike]

It would be nice to upgrade someone on the second line over Sobotka, that would be my only personal request. I'm not sure where that comes from. If someone falls out of favor, we just need to jump. Similar to the Perlini to Detroit, while he wouldn't have been the greatest fit, he's 23 and has scored 14 and 17 goals in the last two years. Though he's essentially Vesey.

Who could we replace Sobotka with who would be a significant upgrade: Literally any player in the NHL (And almost anyone in the AHL) NOT named Vlad Sobotka.

 

[HaNotsri]

If he’s letting us slip in november it’s time to fire him. Long term he has been +-0 for us but he is unable to take action to build on a positive trend or interrupt a bad one. I’m not expecting any great moves but it’s high time to balance the roster.

 

[Fjordy]

He should already lift his ass from the chair and start working.

 

[Team Cozens]

If he’s letting us slip in november it’s time to fire him. Long term he has been +-0 for us but he is unable to take action to build on a positive trend or interrupt a bad one. I’m not expecting any great moves but it’s high time to balance the roster.

I'm starting to get the same feeling as last December when you could feel the season slipping away and we knew we needed a 2C. We know we are missing at least one Top 6 winger and another Top 9. This could be the defining moment in Botts career. Montour is back and we have the assets (Risto, McCabe, Pilut, 2020 - 1st, Samuelsson, Asplund, Sheary, Etc) to make it happen.

 

[Chainshot]

Don't worry guys, he'll make moves sometime *checks notes* ...in his fourth summer to move the team forward at something other than a snail's pace. Really. Just let him punt another year and it'll all be okay. We know all of those UFA's who always make it to free agency every year and how all of them are always so keen to give Buffalo a team-friendly deal (just like Jeff Skinner!). Nothing to worry about... nope.

 

[Tatanka]

Don't worry guys, he'll make moves sometime *checks notes* ...in his fourth summer to move the team forward at something other than a snail's pace. Really. Just let him punt another year and it'll all be okay. We know all of those UFA's who always make it to free agency every year and how all of them are always so keen to give Buffalo a team-friendly deal (just like Jeff Skinner!). Nothing to worry about... nope.

I'm torn. On the one hand the need is obvious. In the other, Sheary, Vesey, Hunwick, Grant as a reference do not inspire confidence that he can identify talent.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm torn. On the one hand the need is obvious. In the other, Sheary, Vesey, Hunwick, Grant as a reference do not inspire confidence that he can identify talent.

His ability to assemble forwards lags behind his ability to assemble defensemen.

 

[joshjull]

His ability to assemble forwards lags behind his ability to assemble defensemen.

True

In terms of adding quality, mostly young, talent to the roster he’s taken the small trade, UDFA and drafting paths to do so. Its landed us Pilut, Montour and Joker on defense. Up front we have Skinner and Mitts so far with Cozens, Pekar and R2 coming next season. Cozens being the most likely NHLer of the 3 with Pekar having a decent shot. R2 probably starts with Amerks assuming I have his contract situation correct and he can go there.

Winning the Dahlin draft lottery really swung things to the defense. Not winning might have led to drafting Svech or Brady Tkachuk which swings things more toward the forwards.

 

[Djp]

I'm starting to get the same feeling as last December when you could feel the season slipping away and we knew we needed a 2C. We know we are missing at least one Top 6 winger and another Top 9. This could be the defining moment in Botts career. Montour is back and we have the assets (Risto, McCabe, Pilut, 2020 - 1st, Samuelsson, Asplund, Sheary, Etc) to make it happen.

Like what murray did.....

 

[K8fool]

Lets just say the ammount of justifiable angst over the process of weedingout the tares and the wheat which our leader captain Bligh/ queeg whatever has said will take 20 to 25 games and seeing who meshes and who doesn't is overly amplified based on last years collapse.. Mutiny..
I dont think anyone fron top to bottom makes the same mistakes again.. I also feel similar to mess before the collapse as many seem to here. I truly dont believe they will openly fail kr and i dont believe botts will hang them out dry like last year..
My interest is what the knowledgeable posters believe will be the temporary call ups u til a trade is made after the quoted 20 to 25 games and who gets sat ot tossed and what big d gets traded after the clean slate period ends.. Mercifully..?
My apologies if attempts at humor are taken as shots when i see many of the calmest most knowledgeable posters seem like the are justifiably traumatized by last year as we still sit 9 4 and 2 .. We can all see two more upgrades and we have a legit forward group.. I'm bought in this year and we all must see how close we are to taking that next step. I enjoy everones posts or i wouldnt attempt to engage ir quote people more knowlegable about what may be going on .. I stiil havent seen any obvious or legit answers within and I'm not sure we will know anything from outside for a couple weeks.. I feel the same frustration .

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

Lets just say the ammount of justifiable angst over the process of weedingout the tares and the wheat which our leader captain Bligh/ queeg whatever has said will take 20 to 25 games and seeing who meshes and who doesn't is overly amplified based on last years collapse.. Mutiny..
I dont think anyone fron top to bottom makes the same mistakes again.. I also feel similar to mess before the collapse as many seem to here. I truly dont believe they will openly fail kr and i dont believe botts will hang them out dry like last year..
My interest is what the knowledgeable posters believe will be the temporary call ups u til a trade is made after the quoted 20 to 25 games and who gets sat ot tossed and what big d gets traded after the clean slate period ends.. Mercifully..?
My apologies if attempts at humor are taken as shots when i see many of the calmest most knowledgeable posters seem like the are justifiably traumatized by last year as we still sit 9 4 and 2 .. We can all see two more upgrades and we have a legit forward group.. I'm bought in this year and we all must see how close we are to taking that next step. I enjoy everones posts or i wouldnt attempt to engage ir quote people more knowlegable about what may be going on .. I stiil havent seen any obvious or legit answers within and I'm not sure we will know anything from outside for a couple weeks.. I feel the same frustration .

Wtf Meme GIF - Wtf Meme Wtfmeme - Discover & Share GIFs

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Who could we replace Sobotka with who would be a significant upgrade: Literally any player in the NHL (And almost anyone in the AHL) NOT named Vlad Sobotka.

I know this is your non-giraffe gimmick, but Sobotka so far is not the worst RW in the NHL, let alone so bad that any other would be a "significant" upgrade. All of this to say nothing of the huge gap between even replacement level AHL players and low rung NHL players.

 

[sabremike]

I know this is your non-giraffe gimmick, but Sobotka so far is not the worst RW in the NHL, let alone so bad that any other would be a "significant" upgrade. All of this to say nothing of the huge gap between even replacement level AHL players and low rung NHL players.

He is Uncle Leo level awful, except that Leo at least has some small sliver of usefulness by forechecking like a madman on the PK. Sobotka adds nothing. And if you think the guy has any value from anyone else around the league then the absolute smartest thing we could possibly do is get rid of him and his terrible cap hit this season for whatever we can get. The guy is nothing but a gigantic boat anchor on our second line.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

He is Uncle Leo level awful, except that Leo at least has some small sliver of usefulness by forechecking like a madman on the PK. Sobotka adds nothing. And if you think the guy has any value from anyone else around the league then the absolute smartest thing we could possibly do is get rid of him and his terrible cap hit this season for whatever we can get. The guy is nothing but a gigantic boat anchor on our second line.

Does he have value: No
Is he the worst RW in the League: No
Is he worse than almost anyone in the AHL: No
Is he a good option for a second line: No

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

He is Uncle Leo level awful, except that Leo at least has some small sliver of usefulness by forechecking like a madman on the PK. Sobotka adds nothing. And if you think the guy has any value from anyone else around the league then the absolute smartest thing we could possibly do is get rid of him and his terrible cap hit this season for whatever we can get. The guy is nothing but a gigantic boat anchor on our second line.

Sobotka should at least change his jersey number so Josh Allen can wear his #17 Sabres jersey without being associated with him.

 

[sabremike]

Sobotka should at least change his jersey number so Josh Allen can wear his #17 Sabres jersey without being associated with him.

Can Nathan Petterman skate???

 

[Steddy33]

Imagine if this dipstick traded for Haula instead of Miller. Or both.

He'd actually be good. Or not as bad at least

 

[Chainshot]

Imagine if this dipstick traded for Haula instead of Miller. Or both.

He'd actually be good. Or not as bad at least

Yeah, imagine not having to have Vlad in the top six? How amazing would that have been?

 

[Steddy33]

Yeah, imagine not having to have Vlad in the top six? How amazing would that have been?

I don't want Vlad in the line up at all with exception of injuries. Vlad, Jimmy, and Erod can battle for 12th, 13th, 14th forward.

Only thing I can figure is that Botterill thought for sure he had a Risto for top 6 forward trade done.

But Haula was the only reasonable trade for a 2/3 center that made sense.

It's slightly more expensive than his shitty Vesey trade but made way more sense

 

[sabrebuild]

Does he have value: No
Is he the worst RW in the League: No
Is he worse than almost anyone in the AHL: No
Is he a good option for a second line: No

How many Right Wingers would you say are definitely worse than Sobotka?

I get you think there is too much hyperbole there, but seriously, he was statistically and by the eyeball test, a bottom 5 player league wide last year. And this year, while playing with Marjo and Jeff fing Skinner he has 3 points in 15 games. At a 3+ mill contract.

Lets pretend that the team believes so much in development, that this year Tage can't come up. Do we seriously think that you can't find better than Sobotka for a minimal cost?

Sobotka's existence on this team from every step has been hilarious, but the cherry on top has been his ice time and linemates this year.

This isn't directed at you, but man, as much as I like the defensive pickups this summer, these choices at fwd are unreal.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

How many Right Wingers would you say are definitely worse than Sobotka?

I get you think there is too much hyperbole there, but seriously, he was statistically and by the eyeball test, a bottom 5 player league wide last year. And this year, while playing with Marjo and Jeff fing Skinner he has 3 points in 15 games. At a 3+ mill contract.

Lets pretend that the team believes so much in development, that this year Tage can't come up. Do we seriously think that you can't find better than Sobotka for a minimal cost?

Sobotka's existence on this team from every step has been hilarious, but the cherry on top has been his ice time and linemates this year.

This isn't directed at you, but man, as much as I like the defensive pickups this summer, these choices at fwd are unreal.

Some of these players aren't exclusively RW, as bottom rung forwards need to adapt or die, but to be conservative they are either RW or Right handed shots. There are more that occasionally play RW that are lefties:

Kuhlman, Russell, Archibald (poor Oilers), Lewis, Panik has been trash this year, Wahlstrom is currently trash but he's 19, Appleton, Radil, Bergmann, Hayden. That makes 10

These are just RW. The league is really large, and while Sobotka is not good he's hardly the worst player. Some of these players are currently bad but have more value because they're super young; but that would be moving the goalposts.

I've done some work, now I'd like to see someone compile a list of RW they think Buffalo could trade for. There seems to be a pervasive attitude that the league is lousing with 45 point wingers on nice contracts.. who play a complete game.. that are under contract.. and under 26.. that their team is willing to trade.. for scraps that Buffalo doesn't want.. without the Sabres taking on salary.. or giving up a 1st rounder.. oh and are also physical.

 

[sabrebuild]

Some of these players aren't exclusively RW, as bottom rung forwards need to adapt or die, but to be conservative they are either RW or Right handed shots. There are more that occasionally play RW that are lefties:

Kuhlman, Russell, Archibald (poor Oilers), Lewis, Panik has been trash this year, Wahlstrom is currently trash but he's 19, Appleton, Radil, Bergmann, Hayden. That makes 10

These are just RW. The league is really large, and while Sobotka is not good he's hardly the worst player. Some of these players are currently bad but have more value because they're super young; but that would be moving the goalposts.

I've done some work, now I'd like to see someone compile a list of RW they think Buffalo could trade for. There seems to be a pervasive attitude that the league is lousing with 45 point wingers on nice contracts.. who play a complete game.. that are under contract.. and under 26.. that their team is willing to trade.. for scraps that Buffalo doesn't want.. without the Sabres taking on salary.. or giving up a 1st rounder.. oh and are also physical.

I mean come on, nobody is asking for anything that you went on in that last paragraph.

I mean Wahlstrom is a silly add, and I have to be honest, given his shot and speed, do we really think he wouldn't be an upgrade over Sobotka in this role?

I'm not going to argue about the other guys, haven't had enough time this year to watch the league to judge those guys this early in, but it's not really the point. He hasn't performed better than those guys. He plays with two very good offensive players and kills the puck.

I could make a list of moves, done it before, and all that will happen is ppl will compile the typical excuses about how its so hard to do anything good in this league.

How low is the freaking bar? Sobotka was super trash last year. He grumbled during the year, didn't produce and was lazy physically for much of the year.

Nobody is asking for botts to find a gem to replace him. They are asking for a girgensons level player to replace him.

If that is just too much to expect from Botts, I just don't know what the point is to discuss anything, because the standard for what botts is expected to be able to do is ephemeral.