Jared Spurgeon named Captain

[Dr Jan Itor]

I just did. If there was anything in this thread, you would've quoted it to shove it my face.

When you choose to ignore something the first time, what good is telling you a 2nd time? Like I said, they’re just not your qualities. And it’s about a player that you don’t want on the team. It’s not difficult to put 2 and 2 together here.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I just did. If there was anything in this thread, you would've quoted it to shove it my face.

You literally replied to mine saying perseverance isn't a leadership quality. At that point it's not worth the discussion.

 

[Lapa]

Well Spurgeon doesn't exactly look like an agitator, he looks like he'd do a great job working with children...

What on earth does this have to do with Spurgeon's ability to be a captain?

 

[2Pair]

When you choose to ignore something the first time, what good is telling you a 2nd time? Like I said, they’re just not your qualities. And it’s about a player that you don’t want on the team. It’s not difficult to put 2 and 2 together here.

Yeah, this is just sad. Maybe you can try and change the subject to avoid your obvious failure? Nope, that didn't work either.

Here's the entire thread summarized-
Spurgeon named captain-
Me- That's embarrassing, hope it works out for them
Everyone else- You're a moron for thinking that Spurgeon isn't a leader
Me- Do you have any examples of what makes Spurgeon a leader?
Everyone else -
-
-
-
-
-
-
What kind of an idiot thinks Spurgeon isn't a leader?
Me - Do you have any examples of what makes Spurgeon a leader?
Everyone else- there's tons of examples in this thread.

 

[pfunk]

I would look for a guy that is willing to stand up for himself/teammates. A guy that takes charge on the ice/bench. A guy willing to speak up for himself/teammates.

In his press conference following his being named captain, he literally said he speaks up when he feels it is needed. And if you’ve never seen spurgie get fired up or bark during a game you just have NOT been watching.

Please stop this nonsense. You don’t like the selection, and thats one thing. But it’s another to keep saying the guy doesnt have the qualities to be a leader when that goes completely against every coach and every manager he has ever had. Probably every teammate too. Just stop.

 

[2Pair]

In his press conference following his being named captain, he literally said he speaks up when he feels it is needed. And if you’ve never seen spurgie get fired up or bark during a game you just have NOT been watching.

Please stop this nonsense. You don’t like the selection, and thats one thing. But it’s another to keep saying the guy doesnt have the qualities to be a leader when that goes completely against every coach and every manager he has ever had. Probably every teammate too. Just stop.

I've seem just about every game the kid has ever played. Never seen it.

 

[pfunk]

I've seem just about every game the kid has ever played. Never seen it.

Let me guess, you want me to go find some proof of this for you too, since you don’t pay attention?

 

[Aurinko]

You can lead to many different ways. Some people demand hard leadership, while others demand soft.

Most will agree that the most important leadership trait is to be able to talk to other people. It's hard to lead if you can't speak on the same level. Listening and problem solving is also required, otherwise it's impossible to get to the same level with others. I think the new captain ticks most of the boxes.

Foligno? He could be more natural with vocal and hard leadership, and does visibly have leadership in his blood, but I think he is too "new" in the team to handle the pressure in a way that doesn't impact his own game (and end up in penalty box!).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, this is just sad. Maybe you can try and change the subject to avoid your obvious failure? Nope, that didn't work either.

Here's the entire thread summarized-
Spurgeon named captain-
Me- That's embarrassing, hope it works out for them
Everyone else- You're a moron for thinking that Spurgeon isn't a leader
Me- Do you have any examples of what makes Spurgeon a leader?
Everyone else -
-
-
-
-
-
-
What kind of an idiot thinks Spurgeon isn't a leader?
Me - Do you have any examples of what makes Spurgeon a leader?
Everyone else- there's tons of examples in this thread.

And notice that nowhere in there have you provided a case for anybody else.

Like I said, there are examples. You’re choosing to ignore them. That’s not really my problem.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I would've stopped trying to argue your point as well. It was terrible

Sure. How about we do this.

Define what you consider leadership qualities. That way we can attempt to demonstrate why we think Spurgeon has them on an equal understanding. Or better yet, you could say why you don't think Spurgeon has them.

I suspect you won't. Because it's harder to shift goalposts, or reject out of hand a poster's response when you actually state a position or provide reasoning. Which tends to be your posting style.

Which is your right, post how you want. But we all see the game.

 

[pfunk]

So GMBG pointed to several things here.

1. Respected
2. Accountable
3. Well-liked (guys “gravitate” towards him)
4. Perseverance
5. Standout player
6. Standout human

Any of these count for you?

 

[2Pair]

Sure. How about we do this.

Define what you consider leadership qualities. That way we can attempt to demonstrate why we think Spurgeon has them on an equal understanding. Or better yet, you could say why you don't think Spurgeon has them.

I suspect you won't. Because it's harder to shift goalposts, or reject out of hand a poster's response when you actually state a position or provide reasoning. Which tends to be your posting style.

Which is your right, post how you want. But we all see the game.

Yeah, I'm the guy "shifting the goalposts" by continuing to ask the same f***ing question.
Spurgeon is a soft, shy, timid, quiet player that I have never seen take command of a situation or step up for a teammate. I would say the exact same thing about Jonas Brodin.

I would look for a guy that is willing to stand up for himself/teammates. A guy that takes charge on the ice/bench. A guy willing to speak up for himself/teammates.

Quoting this post just to show you guys how it's done when someone asks you for an example.

So GMBG pointed to several things here.

1. Respected
2. Accountable
3. Well-liked (guys “gravitate” towards him)
4. Perseverance
5. Standout player
6. Standout human

Any of these count for you?

How many Wild players has Bill Guerin been quoted as not having those characterisitcs?

 

[ThatGuy22]

Yeah, I'm the guy "shifting the goalposts" by continuing to ask the same f***ing question.
Spurgeon is a soft, shy, timid, quiet player that I have never seen take command of a situation or step up for a teammate. I would say the exact same thing about Jonas Brodin.

Quoting this post just to show you guys how it's done when someone asks you for an example.

Ok. Just trying to get on the same page on your definition of leadership skills.

You consider leadership skills that Spurgeon is lacking are:
1) Demeanor (grouping first four together)
2) Fails to take command of a situation
3) Fails to stepup for team-mate?

You consider any other traits not leadership skills I assume, or are their other skills you would consider applicable to leaders just not ones Spurgeon is lacking in. Just curious because you've rejected Integrity, Loyalty and Perseverance as leadership skills before.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, I'm the guy "shifting the goalposts" by continuing to ask the same f***ing question.
Spurgeon is a soft, shy, timid, quiet player that I have never seen take command of a situation or step up for a teammate. I would say the exact same thing about Jonas Brodin.




Quoting this post just to show you guys how it's done when someone asks you for an example.


How many Wild players has Bill Guerin been quoted as not having those characterisitcs?

Once again, you listed YOUR qualities like they are Gospel, and they’re not. Spurgeon might not have those, but he has others, and they have been presented to you. For the 3rd or 4th time, you’ve just chosen to ignore them, and we all know why.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Yeah, I'm the guy "shifting the goalposts" by continuing to ask the same f***ing question.
Spurgeon is a soft, shy, timid, quiet player that I have never seen take command of a situation or step up for a teammate. I would say the exact same thing about Jonas Brodin.




Quoting this post just to show you guys how it's done when someone asks you for an example.


How many Wild players has Bill Guerin been quoted as not having those characterisitcs?

On record, probably zero.

Because a GM doesn't go out of the way to shame players under most circumstances.

The organization has certainly let it slip to the media/Russo when they are unhappy with a player. Greenway's work ethic (Perserverance, Accountability), Haula probably not being terribly well liked with the Haula-famer stuff, Donato/Greenway /Kunin slacking in the AHL playoffs because they thought they were better than that (Integrity).

 

[2Pair]

Ok. Just trying to get on the same page on your definition of leadership skills.

You consider leadership skills that Spurgeon is lacking are:
1) Demeanor (grouping first four together)
2) Fails to take command of a situation
3) Fails to stepup for team-mate?

You consider any other traits not leadership skills I assume, or are their other skills you would consider applicable to leaders just not ones Spurgeon is lacking in. Just curious because you've rejected Integrity, Loyalty and Perseverance as leadership skills before.

It's not that Integrity, Loyalty, Perseverance, aren't quality traits to have. It's that there aren't many people in the NHL that are going to lack those traits. It's similar to listing "good skater" as something a hockey player needs. I don't see leadership qualities in Spurgeon when he's on the ice. I'm fine with people disagreeing with that, but if you're going to call me an idiot for my opinion, then you need to back yours up with something better than "because I said so".

And to cast my opinion aside just because I thought trading Spurgeon was the smarter move is just lazy. Kevin Fiala is probably my favorite player to watch on this team and is pretty much the exact opposite of Spurgeon the ice. I don't see much leadership in Fiala either.

 

[pfunk]

Once again, you listed YOUR qualities like they are Gospel, and they’re not. Spurgeon might not have those, but he has others, and they have been presented to you. For the 3rd or 4th time, you’ve just chosen to ignore them, and we all know why.

funny thing is Spurgeon actually has done some of those. Reaching out to Kaprizov to show his excitement with him finally signing and then making sure he later is able to acclimate to a new living situation is exactly what stepping up for a teammate is.

 

[57special]

I think that it was made clear that Kunin played hard, but that it was Donato and Greenway who were disappointing.

 

[2Pair]

Once again, you listed YOUR qualities like they are Gospel, and they’re not. Spurgeon might not have those, but he has others, and they have been presented to you. For the 3rd or 4th time, you’ve just chosen to ignore them, and we all know why.

Are you still hammering away with the same terrible argument? Why? Not one example has been presented to me. Thatguy22 listed 3 character traits and that discussion has been had. If those are really the examples after a decade of games in this town, I can't help but feel it strengthens my argument.

You on the other hand, have made the above post 4 times without once providing the examples you keep claiming to be there.

 

[Aurinko]

In army, there was a saying that good leaders are good subordinates.

Just to note that Spurgeon hasn't played a single game in a "leadership" role, and being a smart guy, there is actually a chance he will create some of these listed traits!

 

[Webster]

Are you still hammering away with the same terrible argument? Why? Not one example has been presented to me. Thatguy22 listed 3 character traits and that discussion has been had. If those are really the examples after a decade of games in this town, I can't help but feel it strengthens my argument.

You on the other hand, have made the above post 4 times without once providing the examples you keep claiming to be there.

Who do you think should be captain, Suter? I agree with you about Spurgeon, and I understand you don't like Parise.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Are you still hammering away with the same terrible argument? Why? Not one example has been presented to me. Thatguy22 listed 3 character traits and that discussion has been had. If those are really the examples after a decade of games in this town, I can't help but feel it strengthens my argument.

You on the other hand, have made the above post 4 times without once providing the examples you keep claiming to be there.

Another chance for you to actually make a case for somebody else, and... nothing.

 

[ThatGuy22]

It's not that Integrity, Loyalty, Perseverance, aren't quality traits to have. It's that there aren't many people in the NHL that are going to lack those traits. It's similar to listing "good skater" as something a hockey player needs. I don't see leadership qualities in Spurgeon when he's on the ice. I'm fine with people disagreeing with that, but if you're going to call me an idiot for my opinion, then you need to back yours up with something better than "because I said so".

And to cast my opinion aside just because I thought trading Spurgeon was the smarter move is just lazy. Kevin Fiala is probably my favorite player to watch on this team and is pretty much the exact opposite of Spurgeon the ice. I don't see much leadership in Fiala either.

You're fine to have your opinion, it's a fair one to have. But it's not a constructive dialogue to reject out of hand other people's opinions or reasoning as "Not a leadership quality". You tend to post as "I'm right, you're wrong", not "I disagree, here's why". You're welcome to do that, but it's usaully going to devolve into a pissing match.

I can't speak for other posters, but I never called you an idiot, I don't think I put your position on Spurgeon's contract into the conversation. You asked for leadership skills, I provided you with ones that he has. You rejected them out of hand as not being leadership skills.

There are players that don't have the level of Perseverance that Spurgeon has given his path to the NHL, and the long list of supremely talented players that wash out or never reach their potential because they couldn't or wouldn't put in the work. Thats a leadership quality. Spurgeon can go up to any player in the game and command respect because he worked his way up from nothing to being a one of the top 30 or so most valuable defensemen in the league. He can counsel the young 7th round pick because he's been there, or the lottery pick superstar because he's made his bones.

Integrity and accountability is another one. Examples of people are lacking in it to some degree would be Donato/Greenway/Kunin for sulking when being asked to play in the AHL playoffs. Greenway for apparently not putting in the work. Dubnyk for never taking responsibility for a bad goal. The long list of players with substance abuse issues that impact their game.

You may think those aren't as important having an outgoing demeanor, or being willing to get in anyone/everyone's face and throw down. That doesn't mean they aren't important.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I think that it was made clear that Kunin played hard, but that it was Donato and Greenway who were disappointing.

You're right. I unfairly lumped Kunin into the mix. I was thinking it was JEE that was credited with giving his all, but on retrospect he didn't go down for that playoff series.

 

[2Pair]

Another chance for you to actually make a case for somebody else, and... nothing.

This discussion has never been about me thinking that someone else would've been a better choice. I never even said that Spurgeon was the wrong choice. I did say that Suter would've been my choice, and actually offered up reasons why I thought so. Also said that Suter would've been just as embarrassing a choice.

This entire conversation is numerous people telling me how wrong I am about Spurgeon without providing anything of substance to back their opinion. Highlighted by you yourself failing to back up the same claim at least 5 times. Nice work