Player Discussion Jake Virtanen

[iceburg]

Ok. Let’s take where he was picked out of the equation. Kids not an NHL player regardless.

You said

“If he can figure out .... If he can put together this and that , If this happens”

IF he was gonna do any of those things there’s 95% chance it would have happened by now.

Cue the guys digging up the stats of the odd Draft+5 player that broke out now ...

He clearly is an NHL player...maybe not what you'd like but he is nonetheless.

 

[CanaFan]

I guess as an 18 year old kid in junior he should have had all the maturity in the world to figure out all the answers in his career.

All the answers in the world? Nah.

Working on his game? Probably, if he wants to be an NHLer. I hear most serious NHLers do something like that.

For your next argument are you gonna compare Jake to yourself when you were 18 years old?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Pretty much this, and no reason he cant be in our top 9. He earned it and if is true hes really KILLING it this summer then NOONE should be worried about it

Unfair expectations IMO.

10+15 playing on the 3rd line while being a force on the forcecheck and playing the body consistently, and I'll be happy.

 

[Cupless44]

All the answers in the world? Nah.

Working on his game? Probably, if he wants to be an NHLer. I hear most serious NHLers do something like that.

For your next argument are you gonna compare Jake to yourself when you were 18 years old?

You seem to be suggesting that all 18 year old juniors, especially those bigger and stronger than their peers, have all the answers and all have hired specialist coaches to work on all aspects of their games. I highly doubt it.

Different prospects adjust to the pro game at different paces and while Jake was drafted higher than he probably should have been he was also mismanaged by this team when he still could have been playing junior hockey and developing.

Jake has also had to do some maturing but I think he is starting to deserve a bit of credit. He didn’t sulk in the AHL, and while he didn’t score much he applied himself to what Green wanted and tried to learn a more complete game. I saw significant progress in his defensive game last year and his overall game. Many nights he was one of the better forwards of this lacklustre group of forwards but got minimal ice time while mediocre under performing veterans played with impunity and got more ice time. He led all forwards in hits by a mile, is the fastest player on the team, started driving the net, and is now working hard to take the next step.

First we had to hear about Nylander and Ehlers for 4 years add nauseum on this site. Now we have to hear what a total bust he is at 21 even though he is making progress and at the very least could be a Tom Wilson type that can play up and down the line up and any team would like to have,with more upside to score goals.

I think it is probably time to cut some slack and see what he can do this year if he is given decent ice time including overtime.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Unfair expectations IMO.

10+15 playing on the 3rd line while being a force on the forcecheck and playing the body consistently, and I'll be happy.

A "force". This isn't true. Let's not make him out to a player that'd be anything more than fringe on a Stanley Cup contender.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A "force". This isn't true. Let's not make him out to a player that'd be anything more than fringe on a Stanley Cup contender.

Forcecheck ! nice typo...

I think he can be if he dedicates him self.

 

[Bougieman]

I'd be sad to lose him unless it was a trade for a really good prospect. He's one of the few physical players we have, he's fast, and he's young with some more upside yet to display because of not getting to proper deployment with quality linemates. This is the year he puts it together. If not? Send him packing in a trade, but give the guy a really good shot to succeed this season is all I ask on the Virtanen front.

 

[tantalum]

Jankowski signs for 2 x $1.675M per...possible comparable to Virtanen.

 

[TruGr1t]

This is so depressing to read I hope he proves you wrong this season. Not a jab at you just depressed as you might be right. I'm hoping he sees some time with Pettersson and Roussel on a line. I see them doing well creating room for Pettersson and scoring a few themselves with Petterssons play making.

I also hope I'm wrong, but Virtanen's problems are between the ears and that's the hardest problem to fix. He simply lacks offensive creativity and now that he can't overpower the competition there's not a lot left. The positive is that he's been making strides in his defensive game and you don't have to be an offensive wizard to be a very valuable checker.

You'd have to be pretty happy at this point if he hits Ferraro's prediction and becomes something similar to Jannik Hansen.

 

[CanaFan]

You seem to be suggesting that all 18 year old juniors, especially those bigger and stronger than their peers, have all the answers and all have hired specialist coaches to work on all aspects of their games. I highly doubt it.

Again, dedicated 18 year olds who want to take their game to the highest level probably do. Ones that got by on skating fast and scoring on jr goalies and are happy just being drafted probably don’t. Guess which group typically goes on to become the better NHLers?

I’m really not sure what you’re arguing here. If Jake was killing it in his NHL career then I’d agree that he probably didn’t need to do the extra work. I just find it a bit funny to give the guy all sorts of props for figuring out at age 22 that he should probably work on developing his game now. You say 18 years don’t have all the answers, I say it wasn’t exactly a secret he needed to improve his game and *even* an 18 year old should have been able to figure that out and put in the work.

But whatever, at this point I don’t expect it will make much difference anyway.

 

[THE Green Man]

Cool. Which concert?

I wonder if Bieber was here again....

In all seriousness though, we've said it every year, but this is a massively important one for Jake now. With no Sedin's we need some unexpected players to step up and produce. Guy needs to be given top 9 ES ice time consistently and hopefully 2nd unit PP time as well at points of the season. My guess is that the 4 forwards on the 1st unit will be Bo, Brock, Elias and Louie with the 2nd unit consisting of Sutter, Gagner, Baer and Goldobin if he's in the lineup- Jake when he's not.

 

[Cupless44]

Again, dedicated 18 year olds who want to take their game to the highest level probably do. Ones that got by on skating fast and scoring on jr goalies and are happy just being drafted probably don’t. Guess which group typically goes on to become the better NHLers?

I’m really not sure what you’re arguing here. If Jake was killing it in his NHL career then I’d agree that he probably didn’t need to do the extra work. I just find it a bit funny to give the guy all sorts of props for figuring out at age 22 that he should probably work on developing his game now. You say 18 years don’t have all the answers, I say it wasn’t exactly a secret he needed to improve his game and *even* an 18 year old should have been able to figure that out and put in the work.

But whatever, at this point I don’t expect it will make much difference anyway.

For the sake of accuracy he started working hard last summer at 20.

You think this management helped him understand the process by rushing him to the NHL at 19 before he was ready to sell tickets? Any kid might have thought it comes easy.

Not sure why his develpment curve is such a big surprise here. Most close observers thought he would be a project when he was drafted, like many power forwards are.

We will see what this season brings. While many like you have labeled him a complete bust with no potential to improve i am still in his corner and see progress into a very useful NHL forward. He is already one of the few entertaining players on this team.

 

[Jyrki21]

Canucks Army has done an analysis of expectations for Jake:

What Are The Odds That Jake Virtanen Becomes A Top-9 Forward?

Here are some of the comparables based on junior pedigree, size, age, position and early NHL production:

Virtanen’s statistical matches range from first-line forwards to busts that were out of NHL jobs by their mid-20s. Contextualization of these numbers likely slots Virtanen between the two extremes, similar to some of his other active comparables.

Including those active comparables (Wilson, Connolly, Ritchie) leaves 54% of Virtanen’s comparables as “successful” top-nine forwards. Within that 54%, three also went on to become bonafide top-six players (Pacioretty, Niederreiter, Doan), although these three also happen to have the weakest statistical correlation with Virtanen of the cohort.

Dayal's conclusion is that a "decent third-line winger" is probably the "optimistic" projection.

 

[HSD19]

Signed a 2 year deal.

 

[LordBacon]

Looks like he signed a 2year deal.

 

[CanucksSTM]

Cool. Which concert?

Gone Country in Cloverdale...

 

[Nuckles]

 

[CanucksSTM]

Damnnnnn.. What a Discount, GMJB with a good one here.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Cool. Which concert?

Bieber?

 

[CanaFan]

For the sake of accuracy he started working hard last summer at 20.

You think this management helped him understand the process by rushing him to the NHL at 19 before he was ready to sell tickets? Any kid might have thought it comes easy.

Not sure why his develpment curve is such a big surprise here. Most close observers thought he would be a project when he was drafted, like many power forwards are.

We will see what this season brings. While many like you have labeled him a complete bust with no potential to improve i am still in his corner and see progress into a very useful NHL forward. He is already one of the few entertaining players on this team.

Literally no one described Jake Virtanen as a "project". Find me one such case please. As for my views on Jake, I was one of his most ardent defenders when he was 18-19. The tide turned for me when he went down to Utica at age 20 and put up 19 points. That solidified the fact that he had barely progressed at all since he was 17. In my experience players who stagnate that badly for that long rarely take huge steps later in their career. You can be in his corner all you want - hell, my in-laws play the lottery every week so I understand the appeal of long-shots - but I'm done giving him the benefit of the doubt. I did that for 2 1/2 years to no avail. He needs to show me something tangible before I'm willing to do that again.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Wow a good contract from Benning for once now lets get at it Jake and prove your worth more !!

 

[Numba9]

Dayal's conclusion is that a "decent third-line winger" is probably the "optimistic" projection.

Just nit picking but that's not they way I read it:

"All things considered, it’s reasonable to project Virtanen as a decent third-line winger in an optimistic scenario — an outlook that aligns well with the expectations set by the media and fanbase."

Also the article's comparisons are entirely based off of points, not really an area that Jake is has done well in. A lot of the optimism surrounding Jake is that based off of his play last year his point totals might be an area that really improves.

 

[Pip]

Damnnnnn.. What a Discount, GMJB with a good one here.

No arbitration rights, weak production. It’s a fair contact but not a discount

 

[CanaFan]

Just nit picking but that's not they way I read it:

"All things considered, it’s reasonable to project Virtanen as a decent third-line winger in an optimistic scenario — an outlook that aligns well with the expectations set by the media and fanbase."

Also the article's comparisons are entirely based off of points, not really an area that Jake is has done well in. A lot of the optimism surrounding Jake is that based off of his play last year his point totals might be an area that really improves.

You forgot to bold "in an optimistic scenario".

 

[Jyrki21]

Just nit picking but that's not they way I read it:

"All things considered, it’s reasonable to project Virtanen as a decent third-line winger in an optimistic scenario

^^^^ But also that. To be honest, it's a bit confusing the way it is written, but seeing as he only really covered the range of possibilities, I suppose I get it.

edit: Whoops, sorry @CanaFan, didn't see your existing reply.