Player Discussion Jake Virtanen

[CanaFan]

^^^^ But also that. To be honest, it's a bit confusing the way it is written, but seeing as he only really covered the range of possibilities, I suppose I get it.

edit: Whoops, sorry @CanaFan, didn't see your existing reply.

No worries. Agree it was written rather clumsily.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Yesssssss lockup every single player that we have!!! 3 years of being the worst team in the NHL. Keep resigning all the same guys!!!

Signed a 2 year deal.

 

[Cupless44]

Literally no one described Jake Virtanen as a "project". Find me one such case please. As for my views on Jake, I was one of his most ardent defenders when he was 18-19. The tide turned for me when he went down to Utica at age 20 and put up 19 points. That solidified the fact that he had barely progressed at all since he was 17. In my experience players who stagnate that badly for that long rarely take huge steps later in their career. You can be in his corner all you want - hell, my in-laws play the lottery every week so I understand the appeal of long-shots - but I'm done giving him the benefit of the doubt. I did that for 2 1/2 years to no avail. He needs to show me something tangible before I'm willing to do that again.

You saw nothing encouraging in the last 30 games last year?

 

[CanaFan]

You saw nothing encouraging in the last 30 games last year?

I've been watching him since 2014. 20-30 games of decent play (still couldn't score) is a small piece of his overall progression.

 

[Cupless44]

I've been watching him since 2014. 20-30 games of decent play (still couldn't score) is a small piece of his overall progression.

It is but it is the most recent 20-30 games. I think it provides a better reference of his progression than the games he played in 2015.

Who would you rather watch and get ice time of the Canuck's three 10 goal scores last year? Loui Eriksson, Sam Gagner or Jake Virtanen?

 

[CanaFan]

It is but it is the most recent 20-30 games. I think it provides a better reference of his progression than the games he played in 2015.

Who would you rather watch and get ice time of the Canuck's three 10 goal scores last year? Loui Eriksson, Sam Gagner or Jake Virtanen?

While I agree recency carries more weight its still *just* 20-30 games and even then he didn’t score at any higher rate. At the end of the day his entire progress from 2014 to today is a disappointedly flat slope.

As for your other question, I’d easily choose Jake but that’s not related to my discontent with him. Gagner and Eriksson did not cost us the 6th overall pick so what they need to do to justify their acquisition cost is also much lower. Plus I easily dislike Eriksson and Gagner more than Virtanen, but I’m more frustrated with Jake.

 

[Canucks1096]

I said this so many times and I will say it again. It's Virtanen sexy skating is tricking you guys into thinking he can be some legit top 6 winger.

Some comments I be reading from a lot of you guys. If Virtanen can improve his hands and stickhandling, he can score more.

If it was that simple, everyone can be a scorer.

People also been saying Virtanen Been working hard this summer. Wow watching a few minutes YouTube Video. That's mean he is working hard?

If he wasn't Canadian and a local Boy. People would be treating Virtanen like how like they were treating the Sedins in the early 2000s.

 

[Melvin]

Tbqh, the whole "last 20 games" thing really reminds me of kassian in 2014.

And I say this as someone who genuinely believes Virtanen had an excellent season and should be getting more play.

 

[iceburg]

It was a strange year for Virtanen.
He led all forwards in hits by a wide margin.
He was 6th in shots on goal.
His Corsi%Rel was one of the best among forwards on the team while he had <45% Ozone starts%.

And...he was 29th in average ice time!!

He has a lot to learn. But he did some good things despite a deployment strategy reserved for replacement players. The difference in the last 20 games had more to do with a change in deployment than anything else.

 

[ddawg1950]

Yesssssss lockup every single player that we have!!! 3 years of being the worst team in the NHL. Keep resigning all the same guys!!!

Yes, you see right through their devious plan.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Virtanen was really good during the last half in the season before he stunk so bad he played in the AHL all year too. It means nothing with this player. Maybe another player would be different but this is the same Virtanen who has shown the opposite of carrying any good momentum over to the next season. That said I think he scores 20.

 

[Canucks1096]

Tbqh, the whole "last 20 games" thing really reminds me of kassian in 2014.

And I say this as someone who genuinely believes Virtanen had an excellent season and should be getting more play.

Except Kassian was actually getting points and actually have some hockey sense. Kassian had 10 points in his 10 games and 17 in his last 31 games. Kassian would of had a lot more if Booth was able to score more on all of Kassian passes.

I don't want to turn this into a Kassian vs Virtanen thread but Kassian hockey sense, hands, stickhandling and protecting the puck is a lot better than Virtanen. Kassian was perform with the Sedins. Virtanen skating was better and shot.

I see both having 3rd line career and nothing more.

The last 20 to 30 games in 2014. Kassian was just dominating and some of the playmaking did was at such a high level. Players couldn't take the puck away from him.

 

[mathonwy]

Just a note for you while growing up, it certainly helps you credibility if you dont put your nose straight with the wind all the times but form an opinion for yourself. Rarely have seen a guy shifting his opinions from black to white and back like you do. Sometimes it might just help the clearly think about a situation and form an opinion yourself instead of just switching around to what just seems the current popular.

Hey.

At least he's changing his mind as opposed to doubling and tripling down on stupid (CDC, Reddit).

Can't speak much for CDC as that place is an anti-intellectual cess pool but at least Reddit finally came around (after 3 long years catastrophic incompetence).

People. It's effing ok to change your mind. Especially when presented with logical and rational arguments.

IT'S NOT ABOUT WINNING. It's about the truth.

 

[mathonwy]

Except Kassian was actually getting points and actually have some hockey sense. Kassian had 10 points in his 10 games and 17 in his last 31 games. Kassian would of had a lot more if Booth was able to score more on all of Kassian passes.

I don't want to turn this into a Kassian vs Virtanen thread but Kassian hockey sense, hands, stickhandling and protecting the puck is a lot better than Virtanen. Kassian was perform with the Sedins. Virtanen skating was better and shot.

I see both having 3rd line career and nothing more.

The last 20 to 30 games in 2014. Kassian was just dominating and some of the playmaking did was at such a high level. Players couldn't take the puck away from him.

Yo. Kassian (like Jake) responds extremely well to the coach that tells him to his face that he's dogshit and then tells him EXACTLY what he needs to do to fix his mistakes.

There has never been a Zack vs Jake argument. It's always been a Torts versus WD argument.

WD was a very very shitty coach. Thanks Trev! #medicinehat4lyfe

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Obviously this is a terrible gauge of where a player is at physically, but from online footage of Virtanen working out this off season he is visibly more muscular and more toned than he's ever been before.

He always had a solid core and powerful legs, but his arms and chest always seemed underdeveloped compared to his lower body. It seems his upper body has done some catching up.


As someone who has suffered a shoulder injury like Virtanens I can assure all of you, the more muscle you can pack on in that affected area and surrounding muscle bundles the better off you'll be when it comes to protecting yourself from re-injury.

Obviously no guarantee but if he's added more muscle and strength not only will be be more effective at his patented reverse hits, and general physical plays, but the added muscle protection will help him feel more confident and we may see more of that vintage bull in a china shop virtanen.

 

[DL44]

I said this so many times and I will say it again. It's Virtanen sexy skating is tricking you guys into thinking he can be some legit top 6 winger.

Some comments I be reading from a lot of you guys. If Virtanen can improve his hands and stickhandling, he can score more.

If it was that simple, everyone can be a scorer.

I don't think anyone is claiming it's simple.
You got to dedicate yourself and specifically focus to work on your deficiencies. Virtanen appears to specifically directing some his focus to exactly what his perceived weaknesses are.

I don't understand the connection you've made between "If Virtanen can improve his hands and stickhandling, he can score more" to "If it was that simple, everyone can be a scorer".

The more reasonable line should of been: If it was that simple, any young developing player who focuses training to improve on the deficiencies hindering their scoring ability should be able to improve their scoring ability.

People also been saying Virtanen Been working hard this summer. Wow watching a few minutes YouTube Video. That's mean he is working hard?

A couple clips displaying a couple of workouts focused on his areas of weakness are a positive thing...
It shouldn't have resulted in an increased level of cynicism and blow back.
End of the day... how he shows up in the fall is all that matters... and he appears to know what he needs to do to take another step, so it's promising.

If he wasn't Canadian and a local Boy. People would be treating Virtanen like how like they were treating the Sedins in the early 2000s.

You kinda say that like Virtanen's development and performance has been well received to this point. Weird.

But.. yeah.. for the record... I personally AM treating Virtanen exactly how I treated the Sedins in the early 2000's.

 

[Foundational Player]

Obviously this is a terrible gauge of where a player is at physically, but from online footage of Virtanen working out this off season he is visibly more muscular and more toned than he's ever been before.

He always had a solid core and powerful legs, but his arms and chest always seemed underdeveloped compared to his lower body. It seems his upper body has done some catching up.


As someone who has suffered a shoulder injury like Virtanens I can assure all of you, the more muscle you can pack on in that affected area and surrounding muscle bundles the better off you'll be when it comes to protecting yourself from re-injury.

Obviously no guarantee but if he's added more muscle and strength not only will be be more effective at his patented reverse hits, and general physical plays, but the added muscle protection will help him feel more confident and we may see more of that vintage bull in a china shop virtanen.

Well hopefully Jakey fares better than Borat.

 

[Nick Lang]

Virtanen was really good during the last half in the season before he stunk so bad he played in the AHL all year too. It means nothing with this player. Maybe another player would be different but this is the same Virtanen who has shown the opposite of carrying any good momentum over to the next season. That said I think he scores 20.

This is absolutely silly and mindless. You're writing off a 21 year player based on inconsistency off carrying strong play over to a new year twice, once with a new coach?

Hmmm, seems smart.

 

[Lindgren]

This is absolutely silly and mindless. You're writing off a 21 year player based on inconsistency off carrying strong play over to a new year twice, once with a new coach?

Hmmm, seems smart.

The poster predicted Virtanen would score 20 in the upcoming season. How is that writing him off?

 

[Nick Lang]

Writing off his ability to possibly start the year where he left off.

 

[CanaFan]

Writing off his ability to possibly start the year where he left off.

He’d better not start off as he finished if he plans to score 20 goals.

 

[pgj98m3]

He’d better not start off as he finished if he plans to score 20 goals.

Is that a career total or a decade total?????????

 

[nucks88]

I said this so many times and I will say it again. It's Virtanen sexy skating is tricking you guys into thinking he can be some legit top 6 winger.

Some comments I be reading from a lot of you guys. If Virtanen can improve his hands and stickhandling, he can score more.

If it was that simple, everyone can be a scorer.

People also been saying Virtanen Been working hard this summer. Wow watching a few minutes YouTube Video. That's mean he is working hard?

If he wasn't Canadian and a local Boy. People would be treating Virtanen like how like they were treating the Sedins in the early 2000s.

Yeah it is too bad the Sedins never found their game....they could have been pretty good for us...

 

[Lindgren]

Writing off his ability to possibly start the year where he left off.

That's not what the post says. He says that for Jake, past performance means nothing. That doesn't mean he's written him off. He might do well, or he might not. But he can't count on Jake to start the way he finished.

It's a perfectly reasonable caution. Furthermore, if Jake is to get 20, as the poster predicts, he'll probably need a decent start, so the poster is likely expecting that as well. He's simply not counting on it based on past performance.

 

[CanaFan]

Is that a career total or a decade total?????????

That’s unkind. It shouldn’t take Jake more than 2 seasons to hit 20