Prospect Info: Jake Sanderson 5th Overall

[Hale The Villain]

That is elite talent. There are two ends of the rink after all.

Define talent however you want, but if we're talking about skill (combination of puckhandling, shooting, passing), Sanderson is assuredly not elite.

Like I said, doesn't mean he can't develop into an great D and be a very valuable player for us, but anyone expecting big offense and skill from Sanderson is going to inevitably be disappointed due to misunderstanding his game.

 

[aragorn]

Not to mention that IF Chara didn't want to stay, it was Muckler's ham-fisted handling of the Hossa situation a year earlier that soured Chara on the Sens. I think Muckler preferred the Canadian kid Redden though.

R.I.P. Mucks... but you were a disaster in Ottawa.

Under Muckler the Sens made their one & only SC appearance, I'm not sure how you can call that a disaster & didn't they have three of the highest scorers in the NHL on one Pizza line in those days? Under J. Martin as coach they could never get past the stinking Leafs & were knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st rd even though they had the better team.

As I understand it, Chara wanted to be a Captain & was not happy with how Hossa was treated, he was offered $6 mil for 3 yrs same as Redden, Redden accepted & Chara did not. Most likely wanted out & knew that Peter Chiarelli in Boston wanted him badly & was prepared to give him everything he wanted.

On Sanderson, he quietly gets the job done, no flash just solid performance & a minute muncher.

 

[Agent Zub]

Define talent however you want, but if we're talking about skill (combination of puckhandling, shooting, passing), Sanderson is assuredly not elite.

Like I said, doesn't mean he can't develop into an great D and be a very valuable player for us, but anyone expecting big offense and skill from Sanderson is going to inevitably be disappointed due to misunderstanding his game.

is 40 or 50 on a good year big offense? i think he has that kind of upside. his hands aren't there yet but I love this kids instincts.

 

[h2]

is 40 or 50 on a good year big offense? i think he has that kind of upside. his hands aren't there yet but I love this kids instincts.

That's where I see his offense as well. Combined with his defensive play, that's a very valuable piece worthy of a 5th overall selection IMO.

 

[NyQuil]

On a relatively offensive team (OTT and then BOS), a guy like Zdeno Chara put up ~40-50 points for nine straight years.

 

[Hale The Villain]

is 40 or 50 on a good year big offense? i think he has that kind of upside. his hands aren't there yet but I love this kids instincts.

I'd consider that his upside as far as point totals go.

If his defensive game continues to be elite and he's putting up 50+ points a year he's a Norris nominee.

I'm expecting 20-30P a year if his offensive game stagnates, with 30-40P a year if it continues to develop and he gets 2nd unit PP time.

 

[Hale The Villain]

On a relatively offensive team (OTT and then BOS), a guy like Zdeno Chara put up ~40-50 points for nine straight years.

Mostly because of his shot and being the one-timer weapon on the PP.

To hit 40-50P he had to put up 9, 16, 16, 11, 17, 19, 7, 14, 12 and 17 goals over those 9 years.

Sanderson won't be the same kind of weapon.

 

[NyQuil]

Mostly because of his shot and being the one-timer weapon on the PP.

To hit 40-50P he had to put up 9, 16, 16, 11, 17, 19, 7, 14, 12 and 17 goals over those 9 years.

Sanderson won't be the same kind of weapon.

On the one hand, you're right, he doesn't have Chara's shot and he does have Chabot stealing prime PP opportunities from him.

Sanderson may have better mobility in the end than Big Z and could make up some of that difference in other ways.

 

[h2]

On the one hand, you're right, he doesn't have Chara's shot and he does have Chabot stealing prime PP opportunities from him.

Sanderson may have better mobility in the end than Big Z and could make up some of that difference in other ways.

Things like shooting can be improved on as well. Chabot's shot didn't look impressive in his 1st WJC, now it's an option he has.

 

[NyQuil]

Things like shooting can be improved on as well. Chabot's shot didn't look impressive in his 1st WJC, now it's an option he has.

Well, we're comparing a finished Chara product who looked much worse than Sanderson when he was drafted.

But Chara was obsessed with self-improvement and fitness to a degree few others have shown since.

In any event, Zdeno was a bit of a defensively-oriented guy who actually developed an offensive game which seems a bit backward compared to most examples and is an interesting local comparison.

 

[h2]

Well, we're comparing a finished Chara product with Jake who looked much worse than Sanderson when he was drafted.

But Chara was obsessed with self-improvement and fitness to a degree few others have shown since.

In any event, Zdeno was a bit of a defensively-oriented guy who actually developed an offensive game which seems a bit backward compared to most examples and is an interesting local comparison.

I remember Chara's idea of breakout pass when he first arrived was a clear off the boards. He definitely came a long way.

I think the next WJC will give us a much better idea on Sanderson's offensive game when he's 'the guy' for Team USA on the backend. For an 18yr old, I think he had a very good tournament. I wouldn't say his offense is elite at this moment, but it's good. His defensive game is elite, and those things as they are right now are definitely a highly coveted package. I can definitely see why this prospect is taken at 5th.

 

[Dionysus]

I'd consider that his upside as far as point totals go.

If his defensive game continues to be elite and he's putting up 50+ points a year he's a Norris nominee.

I'm expecting 20-30P a year if his offensive game stagnates, with 30-40P a year if it continues to develop and he gets 2nd unit PP time.

I see his offensive upside coming not through flash, but through constantly breaking up plays in the neutral zone and d zone, and moving the puck towards offense through skating and smart passing. Occasional well-timed rushes and pinches, as well as shots for tips. Not tons of goals, but plenty of assists. I see him in the 30-50 point range depending on the year.

His ability to control the game with his defense, controlled zone exits, passing and rushing will be extremely valuable. Likely anchors a PK unit, 2nd PP, playing 23-26 minutes a game.

 

[foggyvisor]

7 g, 29A
2nd PP
1st PK
#1 in Austin Matthews' nightmares

 

[Betax]

I see his offensive upside coming not through flash, but through constantly breaking up plays in the neutral zone and d zone, and moving the puck towards offense through skating and smart passing. Occasional well-timed rushes and pinches, as well as shots for tips. Not tons of goals, but plenty of assists. I see him in the 30-50 point range depending on the year.

His ability to control the game with his defense, controlled zone exits, passing and rushing will be extremely valuable. Likely anchors a PK unit, 2nd PP, playing 23-26 minutes a game.

I'm really looking forward to the set play of Pinto wins the draw back to Sanderson, who hits Formenton with a stretch pass as he crosses the centre line. (I saw some nice stretch passes off Sanderson in this tournament, although not so much against Canada who didn't generally allow that much space).

I thought Sanderson's positioning and stick positioning were great in the World Juniors, but I thought he was outskilled in puck battles in the corner (that sort of battle is a skill -- just look at how someone like Alfie could so frequently win them), and looked like he needs more strength still. And I thought that against Canada he sometimes positioned too conservatively, like he wasn't confident with the play developing so quickly. But those are all things that come with time and work. He'll be better next year, but I hope we don't rush him to the NHL. Let him do next year in college or the AHL, it takes time to fully build a defenceman.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ceci does not really fit the definition of a "bust" though. Did he fail to meet expectations, definitely, would he be picked in the top 20 in a re-draft, probably not, but is he a bust, no.

Edit: on second thought, that 2012 draft was so bad I would not be surprised if Cody Ceci went top 15-20 again in a re-draft...yeesh.

He was still a 1st round pick in basically every re-draft I have seen, often in the 20's which is good since he was a 15th OA pick. It's pretty normal that outside of the top picks, there's always BPA that were drafted you... In Ceci's case, there's maybe only ~12 guys drafted after him that are better... it's not a lot.

As we speak, from the 2012 draft, Ceci is 5th in GP and 21st in Pts, even though he has mostly been used as a defensive D-man

I think posts like this are kind of funny. There was nothing safe about taking Sanderson where we did, he was drafted because he showed elite talent and according to most analysts we reached for him based on the talent we saw. I also think it's funny because Lundell was also seen as a "safe" pick in the top 10, a good defensive player but not great at skating and not really showing any offensive flair, and he looks like the third best forward in the draft right now. Similarly, every other forward taken with the next 6 picks had anywhere from not great to terrible WJs.

Oh and just to add to the near comedic nature of posts like this, there were people in the Jarventie thread saying "for once I wish management would just pick the safe player". So not really sure which one people want.

I too want PD to make the safe risky pick and swing for the fences except when I don't like the player, then he should pick the safe player I like.

I don't know for you but personally my HF account lives for these takes. It's a serious injection of dopamine and it's totally FREE

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Anyone else notice how he does that Fredrik Claessan thing with his stick? I guess for gap control, and as a distraction?

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Anyone else notice how he does that Fredrik Claessan thing with his stick? I guess for gap control, and as a distraction?

What’s the Claessan thing?

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

What’s the Claessan thing?

When backing up (defending) helps his stick pushed forward near the defenders feet

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Under Muckler the Sens made their one & only SC appearance, I'm not sure how you can call that a disaster & didn't they have three of the highest scorers in the NHL on one Pizza line in those days? Under J. Martin as coach they could never get past the stinking Leafs & were knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st rd even though they had the better team.

As I understand it, Chara wanted to be a Captain & was not happy with how Hossa was treated, he was offered $6 mil for 3 yrs same as Redden, Redden accepted & Chara did not. Most likely wanted out & knew that Peter Chiarelli in Boston wanted him badly & was prepared to give him everything he wanted.

On Sanderson, he quietly gets the job done, no flash just solid performance & a minute muncher.

Sure we made it to the Finals while Muckler was the GM but the team was pretty much all holdovers from the previous regime. He then went on to strip the cupboards bare.

He did make Murray the coach which I think was a very good move. But he inherited a team bursting with talent and left one that had a few good vets and next to no prospects.

 

[Tuna99]

Don’t trade him for Scott Gomez

 

[Karl Eriksson]

He’s gonna log so many minutes that he’ll get 25 points just from pucks bouncing off of him on to goal scorers sticks.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Underrated part of having Sanderson is he'll likely log more of the defensive assignments and deployment which will allow Chabot to get better matchups and more offensive deployment. Should help the team having him be in a position where he can utilize his offensive skills more without having to worry about carrying the whole defensive load as well.

I'm quite certain Sanderson's shot will improve. He's big, very athletic, and still very young. Remember how crappy Chabot's shot looked in his first go around at WJs? The very next year was like night and day. Even Stutzle has come along way in a year in that regard. Give him some time on that one.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

McGuire was on Montreal radio fawning over Jake according to Reddit.

 

[SpezDispenser]

He’s gonna log so many minutes that he’ll get 25 points just from pucks bouncing off of him on to goal scorers sticks.

It's true lol

 

[NyQuil]

McGuire was on Montreal radio fawning over Jake according to Reddit.

Earlier in the thread:

Prospect Info: - Jake Sanderson 5th Overall