Dexter Sinister
Registered User
Habs fans don't want to give up their 2019 1st, that's okay, we'd be happy getting their 2020 1st instead. 
Eklund Rumor: Jake Muzzin to MTL
- Thread starter AlexGretzchenvid
- Start date
KingsOfCali25
Start up the Bandwagon!
LA would get better offers elsewhere or just keep Muzzin. If Muzzin is being dealt...it's for a 1st or a top prospect.
Liferleafer
TSN Scrum Lurker
- Feb 9, 2011
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A 1st is ok if we’re close to the TDL and in a good position to make the playoff.
I think that’s the issue people are missing out on!
Muzzin and/or Martinez will be moved but closer to or at the TDL where as we’ve seen in the past offers tend to get outrageous from teams that feel it’s their time... I expect a hefty haul for Muzzin aka 1st + A prospect maybe more if we retain, while Amart should return a 2nd + young player or a 1st
You do understand you were incorrect to claim that you needed multiple top picks to win the cup? The Kings only had 1 in Doughty and the Bruins effectively zero.
Those teams aren't "minute cases", it's several recent cups that completely invalidate your argument. Going back a little further the Red Wings last two cups were led by Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who were drafted in the 7th round. It seems you just haven't thought this through.
You also claim that multiple top picks are the primary reason for the success of all the up and coming teams - and that they all have top lottery picks outproducing their peers. Again not even close to true. The top two teams right now are the Lightning and the Jets. Point (3rd round) and Kucherov (2nd round) are by far the best players on the Lightning, far better than Stamkos. The Jets are led by Scheifele (7th OA) and Wheeler (5 OA, acquired for Rich Peverly), who are better than Laine.
I'm making a very practical argument here - looking at cup winners post 2006, all of those teams needed multiple top 20 / top 30 players. And most of today's top 20 or top 30 players were not drafted top-3. Draft better not higher.
I don't see Bergevin going for Muzzin at the moment. Not for a 2019 1st rounder anyway. His plan has always been "make the playoffs somehow and anything can happen". Looking at the standings, I wouldn't be surprised if Bergevin feels no urgent need to do anything at all with the current roster since the Habs might squeeze in and "anything can happen".
If anything, he's likely more interested in an Armia - Mason for cap space type deal. Muzzin is likely destined to a contender.
If anything, he's likely more interested in an Armia - Mason for cap space type deal. Muzzin is likely destined to a contender.
Cobra Commander
Registered User
Petry is going to hit 50+ points this season.. he’s trending up, plus he’s signed for an extra year.
I think it’s safe to say that Muzzin will never hit 50+
Don’t get me wrong, I want Muzzin, he would be a great partner for Weber or Petry.
But not for this year’s 1st, we need to draft a LD with that.
Poehling
2019 2nd
Shlemko
For
Muzzin
Cobra Commander
Registered User
Petry will get 50+ points this season, something Muzzin has never done and will never do. Petry is the better offensive player RIGHT NOW no question. Muzzin the better defender I agree.
Cobra Commander
Registered User
So a low 1st and a meh prospect..
Great deal.. for the leafs... my offer is way better.
A deal for Muzzin might look something like that. It’s always an overpayment for guys Ike Muzzin, unfortunately, as the Kings paid through the nose for Sekera when they aquired him a couple years back.
Liferleafer
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LA fans are saying 1st+forward prospect...so we have guys like Engval/Grundstrom/Moore as left wingers..,.SDA as a center...depends on what they are looking for.
Cobra Commander
Registered User
CauZuki
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2008
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Those situations aren't close to equal and if you have to go back as far as Detroit , you do realize we are nearly in 2019? Once again you are taking the minority case and applying it to make a general rule. Presenting both these scenarios as equal is simply untrue.
So you essentially think it's reasonable to expect a team to draft future hall of famers in the 7th round or gems in later rounds vs all the other elite players drafted in the lottery? As if those situations are even close in terms of probability. Okay, whatever you say...
I mean look at all the current top teams , they havn't won a cup yet but all the contenders are built around those core top3/5 drafted players. I present you multiple teams in the last decade to win a cup surrounded by elite talent drafted in the lottery draft and you present a small example of the contrary. I don't think it's wise to build out a team in much less probable conditions for success...
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Liferleafer
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Vachon23
Registered User
You know that Muzzin and Petry had the same amount of points last year ?
I get the not wanting to give up a 1st rounder, since Montreal is still looking to fill their prospect pool. I get Petry is off to a hot start, but let the year play out and see if will hit 50 points. Its known the last half of the season is probably the hardest time to get points. To base your assessment between the two on only this season is a bit misleading.
LA like to have options and pick certain type players. If Futa thinks Poehling (I know nothing of him) is the type of player they can get with the 20-31 pick this year, then I see LA going for it. Futa is pretty picky with the type of player being drafted and they are picking up players that have high ceiling (similar to Kupari and JAD), even if their are some risk. They are getting away from the hard working 3rd and 4th liners like Pearson and Lewis
Cobra Commander
Registered User
That’s the past, Petry will put up 50+ This season, something that Muzzin has never done and will never do.
So you think it's reasonable to expect a team to draft future hall of famers in the 7th round or gems in later rounds vs all the other elite players drafted in the lottery? Okay, whatever you say...
Those situations aren't close to equal and if you have to go back as far as Detroit , you do realize we are nearly in 2019? Once again you are taking the minority case and applying to make a rule. Presented both these scenarios as equal is simply untrue.
I never suggested that 7th rounders are the path to success. I have a modest argument, merely that you are about as likely to get a foundational cup-winning piece outside of the top 5 picks as you are to get one in the top 5. A quick perusal of the top 20 players in the league will confirm this for you.
5 of the last 12 cups were won by teams that had one or zero top 5 picks.
You started out arguing that all cup winners are built off of multiple top picks, then you shifted to "all but a minute exception", and now it's "all but a minority case". You could have just said you were wrong, it would have been more dignifying than this retreat.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
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Muzzin has 203 points in 479 career games
Petry has 191 in 559 career games.
Last year Petry had his career high in points, 42 (though he's on pace to break that right now)
Last year, Muzzin had 42 points, which is also a career high, but also doing it while playing on the top defensive team in the league as a #2/3 defenseman.
Petry having a career year right now does not automatically make him a better player offensively.
Muzzin is two years younger, has had consistently better numbers up until this season, and has been the #2/3 defenseman on one of the top defensive teams for quite a few years.
Muzzin is having a bad year, but when your leading scorer who had 90+ points last season only has 20 points, nobody is doing well.
Muzzin has his warts, like any other player, but you are underselling him.
Cobra Commander
Registered User
I’m not underselling anything or trying to put Muzzin down, I want him on my team. I’m simply stating the fact that RIGHT NOW Petry is the more offensively skilled of the two.
Muzzin is a very good player, but who is UFA after next season, and is 29. So then what, lose him or sign another guy to play until his late 30s ?
If Habs could contend for the Cup this year and next , fine, but we arent.
This is a complete waste of assets , and it will cost, to simply try for the play offs.
If Habs could contend for the Cup this year and next , fine, but we arent.
This is a complete waste of assets , and it will cost, to simply try for the play offs.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 21,900
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No, RIGHT NOW Petry is having a better season offensively.
One player's numbers:
12
17
22
16
28
42
24
One other player's numbers:
16
24
41
40
28
42
11
Taking away the names, which one would you reasonably expect to put up more numbers long term, strictly speaking offensively?
And saying one player is more offensively gifted based off of less than half a season is pretty unreasonable.Max Domi has more points than Patrik Laine RIGHT NOW. Are you saying he's more offensively talented?
Liferleafer
TSN Scrum Lurker
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More importantly to me...and i get this stat isn't great...but one player is a +4 on a tire fire team right now.....the other is -3 on a team in a playoff spot.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
I don't get how a 32-game point bender makes one more 'offensively skilled' when the other has consistently literally doubled the other's production while on a crap offensive team. That is trash logic. Yes, I'd question the assertion that literally 5% of one's career is the slice of play that you're going to use to extrapolate offensive ability as opposed to simply saying "current offensive production is better" and apply context.
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