Value of: Jake Guentzel

[WingsToPick4th]

They want prospects over picks, wings have a ton of prospects. Make It happen Stevie

 

[Empoleon8771]

2025 1st, D-Petey, Raty, 2026 2nd for Guentzel.

This isn't terrible value but it would almost definitely be beat by someone else, especially considering how far down the line the picks are.

Again, the only piece that Vancouver has that can actually beat other team's offers is Hoglander. If Vegas is offering say Brisson and Dorofeyev as the main pieces, those prospects plus picks down the line aren't going to beat that.

 

[Ulf5]

Is Guentzel the only top 6 forward option?

Not even close. But he's the best. Especially in the playoffs.
And there's a reason for that. And it's only partly Sid. Jake's hockey IQ allows him to get to the right spots at the right time. Even in tight quarters come playoffs.
58 games- 34 goals- 24 assists- 58 points.
No one else available can touch that.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Not even close. But he's the best. Especially in the playoffs.

Yes he’s definitely the premium option and demands an appropriate return, the Canucks simply can’t offer that for a rental option.

 

[LemonSauceD]

This isn't terrible value but it would almost definitely be beat by someone else, especially considering how far down the line the picks are.

Again, the only piece that Vancouver has that can actually beat other team's offers is Hoglander. If Vegas is offering say Brisson and Dorofeyev as the main pieces, those prospects plus picks down the line aren't going to beat that.

Dorofeyev is good but Brisson isn’t exactly much better than say our very own Podkolzin who’s posted similar numbers to Brisson in the AHL (just got called up) and has 1.5 seasons of NHL experience, and is only 4 months older than Brisson.

If Vegas offers Dorofeyev I guess we’d be out but if you want a similar player to Brisson, Podkolzin is the much better and more developed option IMO. And in that case, I’d offer 2025 1st, Podkolzin, and D-Petey (who’s a B+ prospect) or a 2026 2nd.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think for Vancouver Mikheyev has to be included for cap reasons. Since one roster player is gone, it’s highly unlikely two will be included in the deal because JR and PA doesn’t want to disrupt chemistry.

Saying that I think Canucks best offer is Mikheyev, Podkolzin and Raty given that PIT wants two prospects.

That’s for JG as a rental.

That is absolutely awful for pit no thanks

 

[VanillaCoke]

or a Golden Knight

That'll be Buchnevich

 

[Mr Positive]

I bet he goes to Vegas. They check a lot of boxes. They still have their 1st. They have the cap space to take him easily. I don't know their prospects.

I do wonder if the Oilers try, but imo we won't. We will want someone with term or control, like the Ekholm trade

 

[Homesick]

That'll be Buchnevich

Good. I hope that's there big move. One goal in 20 career playoff games

 

[oceanchild]

Hoglander, Podkolzin, Raty

Apparently penguins want young players and not picks

This isn't terrible value but it would almost definitely be beat by someone else, especially considering how far down the line the picks are.

Again, the only piece that Vancouver has that can actually beat other team's offers is Hoglander. If Vegas is offering say Brisson and Dorofeyev as the main pieces, those prospects plus picks down the line aren't going to beat that.

I would give up Hoglander if Guentzel is coming with a new deal

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hoglander, Podkolzin, Raty

Apparently penguins want young players and not picks


I would give up Hoglander if Guentzel is coming with a new deal

If Guentzel is coming with a new deal, Lekkerimaki is coming back.

Hoglander is coming back for a rental Guentzel.

 

[Peter Griffin]

If Guentzel is coming with a new deal, Lekkerimaki is coming back.

Hoglander is coming back for a rental Guentzel.

Hoglander, Raty and Mikheyev for Guentzel.

Vancouver then re-signs Jake. I don’t think they require a sign and trade situation here, Vancouver’s management group is very familiar with Guentzel and get a deal done.

 

[wej20]

Hoglander, Raty and Mikheyev for Guentzel.

Vancouver then re-signs Jake. I don’t think they require a sign and trade situation here, Vancouver’s management group is very familiar with Guentzel and get a deal done.

That's not a good offer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hoglander, Raty and Mikheyev for Guentzel.

Vancouver then re-signs Jake. I don’t think they require a sign and trade situation here, Vancouver’s management group is very familiar with Guentzel and get a deal done.

I feel like Penguins fans in here have made it abundantly clear for their expectations, and this obviously doesn't match it.

It's either:

-Guentzel with an extension for Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki and a 2025 1st
-Guentzel as a rental for Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty/Podkolzin/another prospect and a 2025 1st

 

[Peter Griffin]

I feel like Penguins fans in here have made it abundantly clear for their expectations, and this obviously doesn't match it.

It's either:

-Guentzel with an extension for Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki and a 2025 1st
-Guentzel as a rental for Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty/Podkolzin/another prospect and a 2025 1st

I’d make it a conditional 1st on the 2nd offer.

That's not a good offer.

That’s fine, I really don’t have any appetite to move Hoglander.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

How often is a winger of Guentzel’s playoff calibre available come trade deadline? It’s not unreasonable that Pens fans believe he deserves a semi-haul, but the Penguins need promising young prospects, not late first round picks.

Teams wanting to seriously compete have to be licking their chops seeing a player available with 34 goals / 58 points in 58 playoff games available.

 

[oceanchild]

If Guentzel is coming with a new deal, Lekkerimaki is coming back.

Hoglander is coming back for a rental Guentzel.

No way they include Lekk IMO. I get what your saying, but he also had a no trade clause of 12 teams and can make it tough.

He knows the management and coach in Vancouver and probably would like the idea of playing with Petey.

I’m guessing he is a Canuck before the end of the week and that the Canucks are trying hard not to include Hogs.

 

[VanillaCoke]

If Guentzel is coming with a new deal, Lekkerimaki is coming back.

Hoglander is coming back for a rental Guentzel.

Might want to prepare for neither tbh

 

[oceanchild]

I feel like Penguins fans in here have made it abundantly clear for their expectations, and this obviously doesn't match it.

It's either:

-Guentzel with an extension for Mikheyev, Lekkerimaki and a 2025 1st
-Guentzel as a rental for Mikheyev, Hoglander, Raty/Podkolzin/another prospect and a 2025 1st

I get the position you’re coming from, but it’s not the fans making the trade in this one. I can live with moving Hogs and a Raty/Petey (D)/Pod and maybe a lesser prospect as well and even a first depending on the other pieces. But to get Hoglander he needs to be signed and Lekk would require other pieces and I’m not sure what the Pens have tahat even lines up.

If it’s not good enough I hope we get Toffoli instead.

How often is a winger of Guentzel’s playoff calibre available come trade deadline? It’s not unreasonable that Pens fans believe he deserves a semi-haul, but the Penguins need promising young prospects, not late first round picks.

Teams wanting to seriously compete have to be licking their chops seeing a player available with 34 goals / 58 points in 58 playoff games available.

A lot of the contenders don’t have much to offer after everyone overspent last year. Jake can possibly control where he goes if they have not yet asked him for his 12 teams on his no trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Might want to prepare for neither tbh

He's not going to Vancouver without one of those pieces coming back.

It's really that simple. Vancouver will simply be out-bid by other teams if they're not offering up Hoglander or Lekkerimaki.

I get the position you’re coming from, but it’s not the fans making the trade in this one. I can live with moving Hogs and a Raty/Petey (D)/Pod and maybe a lesser prospect as well and even a first depending on the other pieces. But to get Hoglander he needs to be signed and Lekk would require other pieces and I’m not sure what the Pens have tahat even lines up.

If it’s not good enough I hope we get Toffoli instead.

Again, it's very simple. I have absolute confidence that Vegas would trade something like Brisson, Dorofeyev/Korczak and a 1st for Guentzel as a rental. Vancouver needs to offer something that beats that. If Hoglander is not included, they have nothing that beats that offer.

It doesn't matter if Guentzel likes the management in Vancouver or the management in Vancouver likes him. If they're not going to pay the price to beat the offers of other teams, they simply will not get him. Not including Hoglander for a rental Guentzel simply means you won't get him, because someone else will.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's look at the Canucks trading pool situation if they're not willing to trade Hoglander:

-They have no 2024 1st or 2nd round picks, which hurts them when compared to Edmonton, Carolina and Vegas
-Their best prospects they might have to trade are Podkolzin, Raty and Pettersson. I don't think that beats what Vegas (Brisson, Dorofeyev and Korczak) or Florida (Samoskevich, Devine and Sawchyn) has to offer. Carolina also has some pieces I'm really interested in between Koivunen, Nadeau and Morrow
-Vancouver needs to send Mikeyev to the Penguins, while Vegas (LTIR space), Florida and Carolina would all not need to send back a bad contract with term to make the money work.

Again, why do Vancouver fans think they're at all in a position to pull off Guentzel if guys like Hoglander and Lekkerimaki are off the table? They don't have picks this year. The prospects they have aren't notably better (if at all better) than the prospects that other teams would likely be willing to trade. This isn't saying "I want an overpayment for Guentzel", it's saying that the Canucks simply do not have the ammo to compete with other teams to pull off Guentzel if they're being stingy with their top assets.

 

[SEALBound]

I think it would have been far more prudent for Vancouver to have blown their initial load on Guentzel rather than Lindholm.

 

[oceanchild]

He's not going to Vancouver without one of those pieces coming back.

It's really that simple. Vancouver will simply be out-bid by other teams if they're not offering up Hoglander or Lekkerimaki.



Again, it's very simple. I have absolute confidence that Vegas would trade something like Brisson, Dorofeyev/Korczak and a 1st for Guentzel as a rental. Vancouver needs to offer something that beats that. If Hoglander is not included, they have nothing that beats that offer.

It doesn't matter if Guentzel likes the management in Vancouver or the management in Vancouver likes him. If they're not going to pay the price to beat the offers of other teams, they simply will not get him. Not including Hoglander for a rental Guentzel simply means you won't get him, because someone else will.

It does matter if Jake has Las Vegas on his no trade. We are missing to much info to be speaking in absolutes here. Again, I am open to including Hoglander, for a signed player. Vegas ain’t got cap to sign him, so ya… why would we pay some huge premium.

 

[Zbynek]

Hoglander, Raty and Mikheyev for Guentzel.

Vancouver then re-signs Jake. I don’t think they require a sign and trade situation here, Vancouver’s management group is very familiar with Guentzel and get a deal done.

None of these players would amount to much in Pittsburgh. We'd need a bluechip like Lekkerimaki or a very solid young guy (Think better than Hoglander) to start discussion.

This offer is bad because it's just so clearly 3 pieces that are not crucial to Vancouver at all, and while in total they may add up to a certain value, that value to the Pens is so low lol.

If you trade Guentzel, you're going to lose that trade 90% of the time. So, Pens need a real piece coming back. Think Sharangovich for Toffoli trade from last year. But better than that.

 

[oceanchild]

I think it would have been far more prudent for Vancouver to have blown their initial load on Guentzel rather than Lindholm.

Jake wasn’t available then and we needed additional support on our PK. We were leading the NHL in goal scoring and we’re rolling along. they identified gaps within our special teams and went for the guy that fit them.

Lindholm may be the right guy for the team and just need some more time to adjust. We went on a massive road trip after the trade and played 10 games in 17 nights I believe and he hasn’t had much practice time to learn the system.