Rumor: Jake Gardiner's name 'in play'

[cupcrazyman]

Nick Kypreos reports that Jake Gardiner's name is 'in play' as we head into the trade deadline. I think it would be a terrible idea to trade him, he's young enough to stick around throughout the rebuild, he's been very good this season and is signed to a great long term deal.

PS: Not sure if the mods want to limit this to the trades & proposals thread, I thought this rumour was big enough to have its own thread.

 

[diceman934]

So in the sense of quitting on the team, it shouldn't really matter when you quit, quitting is quitting, if at the time Kadri was a person that could help his team and he held out, that means his actions were hurting his team, he was being selfish for his own benefit right? Wrong. The reason why I picked Kadri is to show how your opinion is selective based on the name on the back of the jersey.

Based on one action by Drouin, that was heavily influenced by his agent, you decided that he has low character, which if you ever talked to the kid for more than 15 minutes you'd see that he is a heck of a stand up guy. Don't judge a hockey book by its cover is a saying that comes to mind. What you fail to acknowledge is the incredible pressure and influence an agent has on a very young man and in this case the agent is giving the wrong advice. For the record I think what Drouin is doing is wrong, not because his name is Drouin, but because he holds no leverage what so ever and in the end will just have to come back to Yzerman with hat in hand begging for another chance.

BTW I think what Kadri did, threatening to hold out, was the right thing for him to do for his career because at the time he had shown some promise with decent stats in the AHL and was almost a PPG in the 2012-13 season, he had some leverage and the Leafs were low-balling him.

Sometimes you have to judge the action for the action.

Since when is taking your ball and going home in mid season the same as not signing a contract till the end of the summer?

He showed a complete lack of common sense and character by being selfish....with a me first attitude that will follow him for a while!

 

[garyturner3]

Since when is taking your ball and going home in mid season the same as not signing a contract till the end of the summer?

He showed a complete lack of common sense and character by being selfish....with a me first attitude that will follow him for a while!

Exactly. Those two situations are not even remotely comparable!

 

[Liferleafer]

My opinion is this, if the deal is right...there isn't a player on this team i wouldn't trade. I get that Rielly is close to untouchable, but other than our 1st/Nylander/Marner....i don't hang up the phone on anybody.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Care to defend your position? You won't do it as good as I will, but can you elaborate?

Tampa is a small market team who needs to sign one of the best centers in the game. They went to the finals, they're built to win now. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and ship him at the TDL, their cup aspirations just took a huge hit. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and decide to go for it, they lose him for nothing on July 1st.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just this year, they need to sign Stamkos [UFA], Kucherov (he got 65 points last year and this year is pacing for 69 - how much you think an arbitrator gives him, I bet it's 6) and Namestnikov are (I imagine) their top RFA priorities. They also have Killorn, Paquette, Nesterov and Brown as RFA. Braydon Coburn is a UFA (but I imagine he can't be retained).

...but the year after that is when it gets REALLY ugly...Palat, Johnson and Vasilevski on RFA, Bishop and freakin' VICTOR HEDMAN UFA.

They're close to the cap as it is - and there's not a lot of money coming off those books in the next few years. They need to shed money, they're in win-now and have too many crucial pieces up in the air upcoming. If the season ends today, their first is 23rd overall. A TB third rounder next year is pick 75-90. I'm sure it hurts to give up DeAngelo (who's likely outcome is a top-4 defender...which Gardiner is (more or less) right now)...well it sure as hell hurts to take Carle. Gardiner is 5 years younger, can step into their top 4 right now and saves them 1.5 over the same duration. Of all the pieces - TODAY (that time when Tampa needs to win), Gardiner is still the best NHLer.

I think your trade proposal is an interesting one. If Gardiner is traded, I hope the deal is along those lines - looking for a potential payoff down the line.

 

[Bluelines]

Since when is taking your ball and going home in mid season the same as not signing a contract till the end of the summer?

He showed a complete lack of common sense and character by being selfish....with a me first attitude that will follow him for a while!

I didn't realize a 2 goal guy going home mid-season would hurt the TBL so harshly.

So you're saying there are times you can bail on your team and it doesn't reflect on your character.

I agree its shows a complete lack of common sense but to call his character into question without being privy to private conversations between GM, Coach, player and agent is completely out of bounds.

Good people with great character can do things that are stupid, doesn't mean they don't have good character, it means they did something stupid.

 

[Macallan18]

There seems to be something somewhat dubious about conclusions made with regards to these "shot suppression" stats. Jake Gardiner does have the highest number on the Leafs' defense but he is also not used as much in critical defensive situations as his other top 4 defense teammates. But when it comes to SA60 RelTM this season, Gardiner is behind all of Marincin, Polak and Phaneuf.

He plays with Phaneuf. That is like putting an anvil on his back. Every time he is on the ice it is a critical defensive situation as his partner is a pylon.

 

[Drew75]

So in the sense of quitting on the team, it shouldn't really matter when you quit, quitting is quitting, if at the time Kadri was a person that could help his team and he held out, that means his actions were hurting his team, he was being selfish for his own benefit right? Wrong. The reason why I picked Kadri is to show how your opinion is selective based on the name on the back of the jersey.

Based on one action by Drouin, that was heavily influenced by his agent, you decided that he has low character, which if you ever talked to the kid for more than 15 minutes you'd see that he is a heck of a stand up guy. Don't judge a hockey book by its cover is a saying that comes to mind. What you fail to acknowledge is the incredible pressure and influence an agent has on a very young man and in this case the agent is giving the wrong advice. For the record I think what Drouin is doing is wrong, not because his name is Drouin, but because he holds no leverage what so ever and in the end will just have to come back to Yzerman with hat in hand begging for another chance.

BTW I think what Kadri did, threatening to hold out, was the right thing for him to do for his career because at the time he had shown some promise with decent stats in the AHL and was almost a PPG in the 2012-13 season, he had some leverage and the Leafs were low-balling him.

Sometimes you have to judge the action for the action.

They are not even close to the same thing. When UNDER CONTRACT, you are being paid to play for the team, and play where the teams assigns you as per the CBA. Once his ELC expires, he is completely free to hold out, demand a trade, do whatever he likes to try and force their hand.

Holding out is a negotiating tactic. Good guy or not, to leave your team while under contract is just a really wrong move, and no matter who suggests it, most players in that situation would not and should not comply with their agents suggestion.

When Kadri threatened to hold out - the key difference was that he was NOT under contract at the time.

 

[Bluelines]

They are not even close to the same thing. When UNDER CONTRACT, you are being paid to play for the team, and play where the teams assigns you as per the CBA. Once his ELC expires, he is completely free to hold out, demand a trade, do whatever he likes to try and force their hand.

Holding out is a negotiating tactic. Good guy or not, to leave your team while under contract is just a really wrong move, and no matter who suggests it, most players in that situation would not and should not comply with their agents suggestion.

When Kadri threatened to hold out - the key difference was that he was NOT under contract at the time.

I'm not disputing its a stupid move on his part, and I've said that in previous posts. What I am disputing is the premise you can judge a persons character off one action in his life.

I doubt anyone in this forum would want to have their character judged based off the single dumbest action they've done. Throwing stones in a glass house.

In person the kid is actually quite a nice and well spoken young man. He's probably just frustrated his career has stalled and took horrible advice from a misguided agent.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Not surprised.

When you look at all the stupid buyouts by our ******** former GM's stuck on the payroll(Grabo. for years, Gleason,Kessel,Gunner) we look to be keeping Phaneuff to groom Reilly. That leaves Gardiner as the best trade option on defense, a position very much in demand.We have to face reality, this is usually where our 2nd half downturn goes into full bloom and we are tied for dead last right now.This core isn't good enough and Gardiner along with others may need to be upgraded. Say what you want about how great Babcock is etc.This team is dead(tied) last with Columbus surging and Edmonton getting Connor McD. back soon, something else needs to change now.

 

[ACC1224]

Is this thread about Kadri, Drouin or brain dead Gardiner?

 

[Bluelines]

Is this thread about Kadri, Drouin or brain dead Gardiner?

Good point.

 

[Killion]

Notice

... guys... GUYS?!..... lets get this back on topic plz... JAKE... GARDINER.....

 

[diceman934]

Brain Dead Gardiner who makes Dion look like a decent D man.....Dion is absent of a brain many times.

I keep Gardiner unless it is an over payment and hope like hell we can trade Dion.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I don't think trading Gardiner for Drouin is a good idea. I'd definitely like to add Drouin, but I'd like to actually capitalize on his lower market value.

Kapanen, Harrington, Percy, Brown, Leipsic.

Basically any two of those can go.

I'd also deal Pittsburgh's 1st pick this year (assuming we actually get it) but I wouldn't want to add much of anything on top of that.

If those offers don't get it done, I'm fine to let him slide. But I think those would be fairly competitive offers, especially at this time.

 

[Macallan18]

Brain Dead Gardiner who makes Dion look like a decent D man.....Dion is absent of a brain many times.

I keep Gardiner unless it is an over payment and hope like hell we can trade Dion.

so nice to hear a little bit of common sense on this thread.

 

[moon111]

So Phaneuf does better with defencemen that other teams might have some interest in rather then defencemen that nobody wants? Shocking.

The whole Babcock has Gardiner playing good means? Gardiner may have hit his ceiling with the right coach? So if the Leafs are selling, they're selling high. Bring in someone else low, and 'Babcock' their game play.

 

[Macallan18]

So Phaneuf does better with defencemen that other teams might have some interest in rather then defencemen that nobody wants? Shocking.

The whole Babcock has Gardiner playing good means? Gardiner may have hit his ceiling with the right coach? So if the Leafs are selling, they're selling high. Bring in someone else low, and 'Babcock' their game play.

No. Gardiner is an excellent defenceman. Babcock plays Phaneuf with him to cover Phaneuf's deficiencies. Sell Phaneuf for a bag of pucks.

 

[Macallan18]

Delete

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Care to defend your position? You won't do it as good as I will, but can you elaborate?

Tampa is a small market team who needs to sign one of the best centers in the game. They went to the finals, they're built to win now. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and ship him at the TDL, their cup aspirations just took a huge hit. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and decide to go for it, they lose him for nothing on July 1st.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just this year, they need to sign Stamkos [UFA], Kucherov (he got 65 points last year and this year is pacing for 69 - how much you think an arbitrator gives him, I bet it's 6) and Namestnikov are (I imagine) their top RFA priorities. They also have Killorn, Paquette, Nesterov and Brown as RFA. Braydon Coburn is a UFA (but I imagine he can't be retained).

...but the year after that is when it gets REALLY ugly...Palat, Johnson and Vasilevski on RFA, Bishop and freakin' VICTOR HEDMAN UFA.

They're close to the cap as it is - and there's not a lot of money coming off those books in the next few years. They need to shed money, they're in win-now and have too many crucial pieces up in the air upcoming. If the season ends today, their first is 23rd overall. A TB third rounder next year is pick 75-90. I'm sure it hurts to give up DeAngelo (who's likely outcome is a top-4 defender...which Gardiner is (more or less) right now)...well it sure as hell hurts to take Carle. Gardiner is 5 years younger, can step into their top 4 right now and saves them 1.5 over the same duration. Of all the pieces - TODAY (that time when Tampa needs to win), Gardiner is still the best NHLer.

Your analysis of the TBL situation is accurate.

By combining the fact that TBL will have cap challenges in the next 2 years with lots of RFA/UFAs to sign, and the fact that they need a PMD now, and it would seem like a pretty good premise and foundation for a trade.

 

[cupcrazyman]

I don't think trading Gardiner for Drouin is a good idea. I'd definitely like to add Drouin, but I'd like to actually capitalize on his lower market value.

Kapanen, Harrington, Percy, Brown, Leipsic.

Basically any two of those can go.

I'd also deal Pittsburgh's 1st pick this year (assuming we actually get it) but I wouldn't want to add much of anything on top of that.

If those offers don't get it done, I'm fine to let him slide. But I think those would be fairly competitive offers, especially at this time.

Take Kapanen & Pitts 1st off of that list.

 

[Stats01]

What's the outrage? He is not a cornerstone piece. If you get a good offer, move him, just like anybody else.

this...I don't care about his age, or "he's still young enough" Fact is the guy has been garbage. Outside of his good playoff run a few years ago, I just don't see what the big deal about him is.

 

[91Kadri91*]

this...I don't care about his age, or "he's still young enough" Fact is the guy has been garbage. Outside of his good playoff run a few years ago, I just don't see what the big deal about him is.

It probably has something to do with the fact that he's really good at hockey when it's even-strength.

Just spitballin'.

 

[Durrr]

this...I don't care about his age, or "he's still young enough" Fact is the guy has been garbage. Outside of his good playoff run a few years ago, I just don't see what the big deal about him is.

Guy has been the furthest thing from garbage, watch the games pls.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Gardiner has been the team's best D this year and its not even close. At all.

He turns the puck over more than some because he has the puck on his stick more than our other D. Its not a hard concept to understand. Look at the players with the most giveaways each and every year, and you'll see pretty much every Norris candidate or anyone even in the conversation for the trophy.

Hes not garbage. He's a #2 on a good team, and he's on a great contract. There is no need to move him.

Its a month before the deadline. They need to create buzz. Carry on.