Rumor: Jake Gardiner's name 'in play'

[Macallan18]

Rielly - Phaneuf
Hunwick - Zaitsev
Gardiner

That's how Lou would have to be seeing things to make this rumour even remotely plausible. Can't really justify $4.05M for a #5 defender.

Although I would have thought Zaitsev would be given a bit of time to adjust?

Maybe they're also thinking Percy/Harrington could keep a spot.

Oh and we have Corrado...

But if we move Gardiner AND Polak that will be an interesting finish to the season.

No, this is ludicrous.
If we had any depth Reilly and Gardiner would be interesting.
Scroll up in this thread and look at the stats I posted.

 

[yubbers]

I'd like to know his shots against creation stats please

 

[Macallan18]

I'd like to know his shots against creation stats please

here is an article that includes a decent discussion of the stats
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...t-defensive-defenceman-analytics-suggest.html

Now, this is from last year, but considering so many posters say his play is improving, I think it is funny that clearly even last year he was our best.
Anyways, I have posted far too much, people believe what they want to believe I've learned.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

On most teams Gardiner is a bottom pairing defender, #4 at best if we can move him for a deal that makes sense we should do it

A Gardiner and Drouin swap makes sense for both teams as cox suggested

If a (so-called) bottom pairing defender is the price for Drouin, I can think of a lot of guys I would trade for him before Gardiner.

 

[Bluelines]

This is blatantly misleading his argument.

Oh? how so?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

No, this is ludicrous.
If we had any depth Reilly and Gardiner would be interesting.
Scroll up in this thread and look at the stats I posted.

Lol. Zaitsev is already better than Gardiner. Very impressive.

Imagine how good he'll be once he's played in the NHL.

 

[Menzinger]

Rielly - Phaneuf
Hunwick - Zaitsev
Gardiner

That's how Lou would have to be seeing things to make this rumour even remotely plausible. Can't really justify $4.05M for a #5 defender.

Although I would have thought Zaitsev would be given a bit of time to adjust?

Maybe they're also thinking Percy/Harrington could keep a spot.

Oh and we have Corrado...

But if we move Gardiner AND Polak that will be an interesting finish to the season.

I have no idea how you can have Hunwick above Gardiner on the depth chart.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

LHD
Brennen
Campbell
Dermott
Desrocher
Gardiner
Harrington
Hunwick
Loov
Marincin
Nielsen
Percy
Phaneuf
Rielly
Valiev

RHD
Corrado
Donaghey
Lindgren
Polak
Robidas

Dealing Gardiner would be part of a long term plan that's influenced by the bolded.

With or without Gardiner this team will suck this year and very likely even next. What matters is 2, 3, 4 years out. Gardiner has 3 years after this before he can become a UFA and it might take that long for us to turn the corner.

Good chance management wants Rielly to play the left side long term.

Loov, Harrington, Marincin, Percy are at that point where they simply need NHL minutes to take the next step.

After that Valiev, Dermott, Nielsen are coming along as even more competition and are on schedule to arrive in the NHL around the time the team is set to turn the corner in 2, 3, 4 years from now on cheap contracts.

That's a lot of quality competition competing for Gardiner's minutes that will be cheaper in a few years and are very likely to push him aside just like Gardiner contributed to pushing aside Liles.

Middle of the lineup pieces like Gardiner are the first pieces to get squeezed in a cap crunch and replaced with youngsters so I highly doubt Gardiner is around when we actually turn the corner because of the amount of competition we have to replace him at a cheaper cost.

It's nice to finally be getting some depth that could allow us to seriously consider potentially trading Gardiner from a position of strength for something else we really need.

 

[Menzinger]

Is defence a position of strength of the team?

Gardiner has been the team's best overall defencemen this season, and will likely still be well in his prime once the team gets competitive.

I'd move Dion well before I move Gardoner.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Is defence a position of strength of the team?

Gardiner has been the team's best overall defencemen this season, and will likely still be well in his prime once the team gets competitive.

I'd move Dion well before I move Gardoner.

No it's not but if you were to pick a slot on D that might be the biggest strength when looking at our team and prospect pool it might be 2nd pair LHD.

A lot of them will bust, or become 3rd pairing guys at most, but I feel like we shouldn't have any trouble moving forward finding 2 LHD to play on the top 2 pairs, with or without Gardiner.

If only we have some decent RHD prospects

 

[Hockey Talker29]

Is defence a position of strength of the team?

Gardiner has been the team's best overall defencemen this season, and will likely still be well in his prime once the team gets competitive.

I'd move Dion well before I move Gardiner.

Lol. If Gardiner makes Phaneuf a tradeable asset with no retention, he deserves an immediate 3 year extension.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Dealing Gardiner would be part of a long term plan

Middle of the lineup pieces like Gardiner are the first pieces to get squeezed in a cap crunch and replaced with youngsters so I highly doubt Gardiner is around when we actually turn the corner because of the amount of competition we have to replace him at a cheaper cost.

It's nice to finally be getting some depth that could allow us to seriously consider potentially trading Gardiner from a position of strength for something else we really need.

Played around with the idea that TBL want a PMD and might be interested in Gardiner. They face a cap crunch in both 2016 & 2017 with a lot of UFA/RFAs to sign. Some of their RFAs IIRC looked interesting - maybe they would part with one of their better ones? And if the Leafs were inclined to load up even more on TBL UFAs & futures, there's always Carle as a contract dump that the TBL would love to get rid of. He's UFA in 2018. Return would have to be significant of course for this to happen.

 

[Voodoo Child]

I think Gardiner is good, he has his warts and we all know them; somehow he appears to not have gained any size or strength since his rookie year, no physical game, at times he tries to be a little too fancy and ends up making a mistake (though this has improved year to year, it still happens) and he still struggles a little with inconsistency.

...But he skates like the wind, can put up decent numbers, breaks out of the zone well and he can quarterback a powerplay.

I don't care much for advanced stats (especially on extremely poor teams) - but they're in his favor, makes you wonder what he could do if he was on a good team. What does the eye test tell me? Some games he looks like Roman Josi, some games he looks like Justin Schultz.

I like Jake Gardiner - but I don't love him. He isn't as good as Phaneuf but I trade Phaneuf first because, contract.

He is 26 this year and has played over 250 games, not young but still young enough to be a part of a core. A 30 or so point guy with mobility but no physicality and questionable IQ, if anyone can help improve his defensive awareness, it's the guy we have behind the bench now (or Trotz). There is still some room for growth, but I think he just about is what he is at this point.

On a bad team like ours he's a #3 on the top power play unit. On a championship caliber team he's a #5 who anchors the second power play but doesn't look out of place if injuries arise and he needs to step up to the second pair or the first PP. His cap hit of 4.05 a year until 2019 isn't quite a steal but it's good money and good term.

Overall his value is quite high. I prefer to keep him, but I move him for a low (20-30) 1st, an intriguing wing or D prospect and a good youngish two-way winger. You want to take a dump on me? Your first, your BEST prospect and a dump.

Someone above suggested TB; I could get behind something like this...

:

Jake Gardiner

:

2016 1st
2017 3rd
Anthony DeAngelo
Matt Carle

(Jake = DeAngelo + 3rd, the 1st is for taking Carle)

 

[indigobuffalo]

I have no idea how you can have Hunwick above Gardiner on the depth chart.

If you read the words I used in my post, I clearly stated that I didn't think Gardiner was that low on the depth chart but that in my opinion, Lou would have to see it that way to warrant putting Gardiner on the trade block.

The rationale is that IF Gardiner, in the eyes of the GM, is lower on the depth chart than the aforementioned players, it would force his hand to a degree to move Gardiner because he's overpriced if he sits that low on the depth chart.

 

[Bluelines]

That's completely different. Holding out in a negotiation and simply quitting midseason on your team (while under contract) is not the same thing, and if you think it is then this convo isn't worth having. Love how you can turn this into a Kadri debate LOL, we get it, you don't like the guy, but it's an awful comparable.

So in the sense of quitting on the team, it shouldn't really matter when you quit, quitting is quitting, if at the time Kadri was a person that could help his team and he held out, that means his actions were hurting his team, he was being selfish for his own benefit right? Wrong. The reason why I picked Kadri is to show how your opinion is selective based on the name on the back of the jersey.

Based on one action by Drouin, that was heavily influenced by his agent, you decided that he has low character, which if you ever talked to the kid for more than 15 minutes you'd see that he is a heck of a stand up guy. Don't judge a hockey book by its cover is a saying that comes to mind. What you fail to acknowledge is the incredible pressure and influence an agent has on a very young man and in this case the agent is giving the wrong advice. For the record I think what Drouin is doing is wrong, not because his name is Drouin, but because he holds no leverage what so ever and in the end will just have to come back to Yzerman with hat in hand begging for another chance.

BTW I think what Kadri did, threatening to hold out, was the right thing for him to do for his career because at the time he had shown some promise with decent stats in the AHL and was almost a PPG in the 2012-13 season, he had some leverage and the Leafs were low-balling him.

Sometimes you have to judge the action for the action.

 

[Le Cobra]

I think we should keep Gardiner. He seems to be more of a support player rather than someone who carries the team. He will do much better with a more skilled roster next season.

 

[Bluelines]

I think we should keep Gardiner. He seems to be more of a support player rather than someone who carries the team. He will do much better with a more skilled roster next season.

I think we can do better for support players. I feel since Gardniers concussion he hasn't been the same defender, before the concussion I was sure he'd be an All Star, now it's like he is a step behind.

The play earlier this year where Gardnier did a suicide pass over to Phaneuf, because Jake had messed up and was trying to save his own bacon, and then Dion got crushed against the boards, sums up how I feel about him, he takes too long to make decisions and then panic's when he see's he is in trouble. What did Jake yell out after that...? SORRY, MY BAD!!!

I'm trying to remember which game that was in. Anyone remember?

 

[Mathew]

Last year everyone wanted Gardiner traded now when we are in are first year of a rebuild everyone wants to keep him?

 

[ToneBone03]

Not surprised to read that Lou is listening. He should be listening and willing to deal anyone not named Rielly for the right price.

Really loving the shroud of secrecy surrounding the Leafs these days. Makes for a much bigger surprise when something does happen.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Someone above suggested TB; I could get behind something like this...

:

Jake Gardiner

:

2016 1st
2017 3rd
Anthony DeAngelo
Matt Carle

(Jake = DeAngelo + 3rd, the 1st is for taking Carle)

^^^ Interesting.

Here is a list of TBL that are RFA in the 2016/17 season and 2017/18 season. Quite interesting given that they also have some UFAs and will have some work to do to stay within the cap limit.'

Forward
Palat (probably a long shot)
Tyler Johnson
Killorn (middle 6 guy)
Namestnikov
Kucherov
Marchessault

Defense & Goaltender
Nesterov, Vasilevskiy

I think if Gardiner were moved and Carle came back in trade, you could probably shop and get something pretty decent from that list too.

 

[Eb]

I think Gardiner is good, he has his warts and we all know them; somehow he appears to not have gained any size or strength since his rookie year, no physical game, at times he tries to be a little too fancy and ends up making a mistake (though this has improved year to year, it still happens) and he still struggles a little with inconsistency.

...But he skates like the wind, can put up decent numbers, breaks out of the zone well and he can quarterback a powerplay.

I don't care much for advanced stats (especially on extremely poor teams) - but they're in his favor, makes you wonder what he could do if he was on a good team. What does the eye test tell me? Some games he looks like Roman Josi, some games he looks like Justin Schultz.

I like Jake Gardiner - but I don't love him. He isn't as good as Phaneuf but I trade Phaneuf first because, contract.

He is 26 this year and has played over 250 games, not young but still young enough to be a part of a core. A 30 or so point guy with mobility but no physicality and questionable IQ, if anyone can help improve his defensive awareness, it's the guy we have behind the bench now (or Trotz). There is still some room for growth, but I think he just about is what he is at this point.

On a bad team like ours he's a #3 on the top power play unit. On a championship caliber team he's a #5 who anchors the second power play but doesn't look out of place if injuries arise and he needs to step up to the second pair or the first PP. His cap hit of 4.05 a year until 2019 isn't quite a steal but it's good money and good term.

Overall his value is quite high. I prefer to keep him, but I move him for a low (20-30) 1st, an intriguing wing or D prospect and a good youngish two-way winger. You want to take a dump on me? Your first, your BEST prospect and a dump.

Someone above suggested TB; I could get behind something like this...

:

Jake Gardiner

:

2016 1st
2017 3rd
Anthony DeAngelo
Matt Carle

(Jake = DeAngelo + 3rd, the 1st is for taking Carle)

What a homer proposal! Lol!

 

[deletethis]

There seems to be something somewhat dubious about conclusions made with regards to these "shot suppression" stats. Jake Gardiner does have the highest number on the Leafs' defense but he is also not used as much in critical defensive situations as his other top 4 defense teammates. But when it comes to SA60 RelTM this season, Gardiner is behind all of Marincin, Polak and Phaneuf.

 

[TMLegend]

Wouldn't move him unless it's for something remarkable. Young top-4 defensemen don't grow on trees, and he's cost controlled for the foreseeable future. Only thing I'd have interest in at this point would be Hamonic, but that's rather unlikely to happen.

 

[Voodoo Child]

What a homer proposal! Lol!

Care to defend your position? You won't do it as good as I will, but can you elaborate?

Tampa is a small market team who needs to sign one of the best centers in the game. They went to the finals, they're built to win now. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and ship him at the TDL, their cup aspirations just took a huge hit. If they know they won't sign Stamkos and decide to go for it, they lose him for nothing on July 1st.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just this year, they need to sign Stamkos [UFA], Kucherov (he got 65 points last year and this year is pacing for 69 - how much you think an arbitrator gives him, I bet it's 6) and Namestnikov are (I imagine) their top RFA priorities. They also have Killorn, Paquette, Nesterov and Brown as RFA. Braydon Coburn is a UFA (but I imagine he can't be retained).

...but the year after that is when it gets REALLY ugly...Palat, Johnson and Vasilevski on RFA, Bishop and freakin' VICTOR HEDMAN UFA.

They're close to the cap as it is - and there's not a lot of money coming off those books in the next few years. They need to shed money, they're in win-now and have too many crucial pieces up in the air upcoming. If the season ends today, their first is 23rd overall. A TB third rounder next year is pick 75-90. I'm sure it hurts to give up DeAngelo (who's likely outcome is a top-4 defender...which Gardiner is (more or less) right now)...well it sure as hell hurts to take Carle. Gardiner is 5 years younger, can step into their top 4 right now and saves them 1.5 over the same duration. Of all the pieces - TODAY (that time when Tampa needs to win), Gardiner is still the best NHLer.

 

[Le Cobra]

I think we can do better for support players. I feel since Gardniers concussion he hasn't been the same defender, before the concussion I was sure he'd be an All Star, now it's like he is a step behind.

The play earlier this year where Gardnier did a suicide pass over to Phaneuf, because Jake had messed up and was trying to save his own bacon, and then Dion got crushed against the boards, sums up how I feel about him, he takes too long to make decisions and then panic's when he see's he is in trouble. What did Jake yell out after that...? SORRY, MY BAD!!!

I'm trying to remember which game that was in. Anyone remember?

It was before the losing skid. I'm thinking most likely in December on a Saturday at home.