Rumor: Jake Gardiner's name 'in play'
- Thread starter KGL
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Blaylock38
Bleeds Blue & White
I like Gards and his skil set, he always makes you want more, same feeling I got with Jaybo still actually. If we can move him for a forward of the same value, upside, age, I would do it, I would really like to see a spot open up for Percy, I think he could be a stabilizing force on the appropriate defence pair with the Leafs
Gardiner is not even close to the best Dman on this team.
It's Rielly by a country mile, with Dion and Hunwick behind him IMO.
His best season was still his rookie year, when the Leafs traded chances and he was free to push the pace. He wasn't anything special defensively then, and never will be, but when he's on his game he doesn't have to play defense because he helps get the puck into the opposition's end.
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X66
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Rielly AND Gardiner are purposely chained up for this season until they understand the other side of the game(defence), and I think they're learning well.
I remember watching a game where it was noted that Babcock said he doesn't want Rielly or Gardiner to carry the puck in and hold on to it and skate behind the net like other offensive Dmen until HE thinks they're good enough defensively to do it.
If this is the case, I expect Gards numbers to improve when the leash is extended a bit(same with Rielly).
I remember watching a game where it was noted that Babcock said he doesn't want Rielly or Gardiner to carry the puck in and hold on to it and skate behind the net like other offensive Dmen until HE thinks they're good enough defensively to do it.
If this is the case, I expect Gards numbers to improve when the leash is extended a bit(same with Rielly).
John Scott is better than Sidney Crosby by a country mile.
Just because I say it doesn't make it true. You can have your opinion, but thankfully, the Leafs have started to use statistics and quantifiable information in addition to their qualitative beliefs about players. Because of that, Gardiner won't likely be moved.
Macallan18
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- Aug 10, 2015
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this has to be the funniest post in ages.
just for the record,
from a couple of weeks ago I believe
'15-16 stats:
Gardiner 5v5 Corsi %: 53.8%
Gardiner with Phaneuf: 54.1%
Gardiner w/o Phaneuf: 53.1%
Phaneuf w/o Gardiner: 44.7%
Thanks god we have management that understands hockey.
hotpaws
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Bluelines
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- Nov 17, 2013
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Bluelines
Python FTW!
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Do you get that when Gardnier is playing away from Dion he is playing down in the line up, when Dion plays away from Jake he is still playing in the same spot in the line up... correlation does not equal causation.
Bluelines
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..but if someone says something true, that makes it true and what he posted was true...
Mitchy
#HFOutcasts
It should still not have that big of an effect. His corsi for% is down 10% without Gards. That is just ridiculous.
Also, it's funny how that almost every single player that plays with Jake sees an increase in CF%.
Gardiner is simply the better d-man.
Based on what? Show me some numbers suggesting so.
And to your post above that one, even if what you are saying about Jake playing down the lineup when he's not with Dion is true, why do Dion's numbers still fall off a cliff when Gardiner isn't paired with him, while Gardiner's stay very close to the same?
The point of those numbers is to show what happens to Phaneuf when he doesn't play with Gardiner, and the answer to that is he gets absolutely shelled. Gardiner without Phaneuf still holds his own (even if his QoC takes a step down, but in theory, then his QoT would also go down, which is actually more useful than QoC, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here).
Bluelines
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Watch the game, last night Gardner brain cramp is forced to take a penalty... the guy can't think the game quickly. This happens multiple times every night, sometimes a turnover, sometimes a penalty sometimes he puts his d pairing in a bad spot... the guy is a mess between the ears.
So if Gards is not playing down the line up that means he is playing 1st pairings, which simply did not happen, or that means Dion played down, which simply did not happen. Logic is as simple as that.
You seem to focus only on stats that support your opinion. You ignore simple things like the fact that he's considered an "offensive" d man who puts up very few points. (16 pts. 8 of which are pp pts)
But fine...if you have confidence in his level of play then explain why Babcock has decided to play every other dman (other than Corrado) more than Gardiner.
Why would he do that if Gardiner was playing well? I think he gave him the best chance possible (lots of ES ice time and lots of PP time....without the responsibility of killing penalties) this year to show his talent and intelligence.
Sorry to say this but he's failed. Now I just hope they move him while there is still value. I want another Luke Schenn type deal. I don't want him to continue to regress to a level where he becomes an afterthought.
CerebralDevil
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moon111
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To those who think Gardiner is awesome and Hunwick is terrible. They're polar opposites. But those who fall in love with offensive stats are going to like Gardiner better.
Hunwick is #1 in penalty-killing ice-time. (Gardiner almost has 3 minutes!) Hunwick is #1st on the defence for take-aways. 2nd in blocked-shots. (More then double Gardiner) Hunwick is 5th on team for hits per games played. Hunwick won't see a lick of PP time.
I think they're about even in value to the team.
Hunwick is #1 in penalty-killing ice-time. (Gardiner almost has 3 minutes!) Hunwick is #1st on the defence for take-aways. 2nd in blocked-shots. (More then double Gardiner) Hunwick is 5th on team for hits per games played. Hunwick won't see a lick of PP time.
I think they're about even in value to the team.
Probably not, I'm not up to date on most of the new statistics used. Care to explain or provide a link so I can inform myself? I'm speaking from watching the games, I don't see him possess the puck that much, unless he is circling in his own end, or going for a loop and ending up turning it over at the blueline off of a blown pass.
I'm not trying to spew, I'm speaking from my eyeballs perspective. So that is my quantifying evidence, I see what he does.
You are correct, just as Nylund was, I'm not 100% on any of the new advanced stats. I've just been watching this team for 25 years, and been around the game a lot. I was also wrong about his ice time, I didn't check, I was just approximating. Still, 5th lowest on the team. And he gets less DVS than Polak, whom you mentioned. Polak also gets more icetime, no PP time, and is on the PK constantly, so yes I think he is better at defense than Jake. Polak also has a better +/- while being in less favourable situations, 4 less points. My opinion, maybe I'm wrong, Maybe Babcock is utilizing the players improperly, who knows.
He isn't the best Dman on the team, otherwise his ice time, responsibilities, and situational starts would be different. You really like him, cool, I don't. Over the past four/five seasons I have watched, and been told the whole time "He has great stats! You don't understand". Yet I see him making the same mental errors he always has. That's what I see, hence why I don't care if we trade him.
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Mitchy
#HFOutcasts
lol now blocked shots and hits are being used to argue who's the better d-man?
Blocked shots are pretty important, most good/great dmen do it. That includes Karlsson, Suter, Josi, Trouba, etc. Do yourself a favour and check out the top 50 players in blocking shots, I'm sure a lot of people would trade Gardiner for most of the guys on that list. Gardiner isn't even in the top 200.
So while using just stats to compare players, what makes one stat less substantial than another? I'm asking an honest question here.
lol now blocked shots and hits are being used to argue who's the better d-man?
Ok forget the stat debate.
Anyone defending Gardiners play.
Please answer this question:
Why is coach Babcock reducing his playing time so much?
(In the last 6 games he's been 5th out of 6 dmen in ice time in each game. Reilly, Phaneuf, Hunwick and Polak all play more than Gardiner)
