Rumor: Jake Gardiner's name 'in play'
- Thread starter KGL
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Unlike previous years, when he was merely the best even strength defenseman on the team.
In previous years he played scared in his own end. Now he doesn't. I blame the coaching.
If one stat has more predictive potential than another, it is likely a more substantial stat than the other.
As far as blocking shots goes, the play in itself is not a bad one. But someone like Roman Polak blocking a lot of shots, while it says he's good at it, it also says that when he's on the ice, his team has the puck less. Its not a useless stat by any means, but its one with a lot of casual factors leading into it. Gardiner doesn't play as much as other D, as well as his team has the puck the majority of the time he's on the ice.
It almost comes down to this: Gardiner doesn't need to block shots to be effective. He's fantastic in the transition game, and because of this, will have to block less shots than his peers, by comparison.
Hockey is fast and everyone makes mistakes - takes penalties. Phaneuf has taken double the minor penalties that Jake has taken, and Polak has taken the same amount.
"Watch the game" would be a good argument if you were an objective observer. None of us are.
I'll leave this quote from Kyle Dubas, Assistant GM:
"Your eyes are lying ********"
He has the highest Primary P/60 on the team for D at even strength. He's also the best shot suppressor on the backend. I never called him an offensive D. He's good on both ends of the rink. In this league, you have to be good at both ends in order to be great.
If you're bad on offense but great at blocking shots/hitting like Polak, you find yourself in your own end too often, and even though you're "better" defensively than someone like Karlsson, or another offensive minded D, you never have the puck/can outlet appropriately, causing yourself to be in the defensive end too much, and hence, make your results worse than those players.
Gardiner isn't regressing. He just isn't. There are no numbers aside from Babcock playing him less to suggest he is. Babcock is a great coach, but he isn't perfect. He has in the past, played players more, or less, than he likely should have. He did it in Detroit, and he's doing it in Toronto. Realistically, EVERY coach does this. AV is likely one of the best systems coaches in the league but is obsessed with Tanner Glass-type players. Every coach has their quirks.
Mitchy
#HFOutcasts
The difference is top defencemen don't rely on blocked shots as their specialties like a Roman Polak does. They can actually carry the puck out of their zone and don't just get trapped in it. Blocked shots are anti-possession at their core. It is very likely that when a shot is blocked, that the puck goes right back to the attacking team.
Matt Hunwick plays the most minutes on the backend. No one will mistake him as being the best defenceman on the Leafs.
Babs, while a great coach, has his favourites and Hunwick is one of them. We saw the same thing with him and Cleary in Detroit. Not to mention, Hunwick also gets more time because he's really the only defenceman, who can play with Rielly.
Also, Phaneuf only plays 2 seconds more at ES than Gardiner. His increased overall TOI is because of special teams. And yes, Gardiner does need to improve on those. btw, Gards does play more than Polak fwiw.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Management too, when they signed him as the first UFA out of the gate and to a 2-year-deal.
That being said, I think he could be gone at the deadline.
Gardiners the same player. His value is super high.
Gardiner a second Levio/Brown/or maybe Bracco for Drouin,Carle.
Gardiner a second Levio/Brown/or maybe Bracco for Drouin,Carle.
Gary Nylund
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Not sure if you're being serious. Drouin has a good chance at becoming a top line forward.
Dustin
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Gary Nylund
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The trade is one thing, I'd say it's at least debatable. But if it's a choice between Gardiner and Drouin, I take Drouin and don't look back.
Yea realistically I understand why Drouins people are upset. He gets 32 points in 70 games(similar to JVr 35 in 78) as a 19 yr old. Its his circumstances that Tampa drafted very well and have 5 rfas, 4 of which play in there top six . Tampa never should have drafted 3rd overall that year with there lineup. Guys like Jones, Monahan, Bennet etc... are thriving, planning there 5 mill contracts and Drouin cant even crack Tampas lineup. I dont think this is all about his personality,just my opinion....
Last year everyone wanted Gardiner traded now everyone wants to keep him? Make up your mind's?, next year everyone is gonna wanted him traded again
Dustin
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Gary Nylund
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I haven't been following the situation that closely but it sounds to me like he got bad advice from his agent and he should go crawling back and play wherever he is told to play. But he's a young kid, I wouldn't write him off as a bad apple or anything, it's not like he's Johnny Manziel. He's an enormous talent and if we offered Gardiner for him straight up, Yzerman would probably just laugh.
Gary Nylund
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Yeah that's fair, the quote I was responding to was this:
"we are better off with gardiner over drouin imo"
That made it sound like he wouldn't trade Gardiner for Drouin straight up, maybe that's wasn't what he meant say but that is what he said.
NO i said Gardiner a 2nd or 3rd and 1 of Levio/Brown/Bracco , got to be fair to Tampa.
Gary Nylund
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Dustin
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Good point. I would be down with Gardiner for Drouin, but as you said I doubt TB would do it. We would also need a D back and would prefer it to not be Carle so that may make it difficult as well.
Dustin
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Just noticed my mistake. I would probably do Gardiner, Leivo and a 3rd. I'm sure other teams would outbid but I would not want to give up higher picks or Bracco/Brown at this stage in their development.
Drouin is overvalued, right now .
No one is quite sure what to make of it but Yzerman lowered this guy's value. This is Lou guys, he is after goalies and I really dont think he does Gardiner,Leivo and a 2nd rounder here. Like it or not there are some character issues that may scare off a team that just dumped Kessel.
Toronto has Marner,Kappanen,Brown,Johnson,Timashov not too mention Leivo and others. I just don't see the right fit here.
No one is quite sure what to make of it but Yzerman lowered this guy's value. This is Lou guys, he is after goalies and I really dont think he does Gardiner,Leivo and a 2nd rounder here. Like it or not there are some character issues that may scare off a team that just dumped Kessel.
Toronto has Marner,Kappanen,Brown,Johnson,Timashov not too mention Leivo and others. I just don't see the right fit here.
What are you talking about? Feel free to refresh over something that happened 5 years ago. Otherwise, you're probably making stuff up. It also has nothing to do with Sportsnet being owned by Rogers.
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