Jack Hughes vs Suzuki vs Stützle

[Habs 4 Life]

I love Suzuki but it's Stutzle before him IMO

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Development is different for all so that doesn’t matter.

I don’t care for underlying numbers. They’re a business for snake oil salesmen. Not an effective way to measure player value.

I’m also not overly concerned what others project or think. I go based on what I see relative to what I know.

Stutzle is the most dynamic. Elite skater, puck skills, instincts etc. He’s a star in the making and can see the game like a centre. Likely he makes the move as soon as next year.

Suzuki plays an incredibly detailed and mature game for his age. So much of what he does are things you can’t really teach or develop. His impact on winning is what you’re looking for in a centre man.

Hughes is a winger with talent and clearly years work into the tangible skills but lacks that ‘it’ factor and for me. I also think should have been playing in the CHL to adjust to the physicality. These soft and slight players that don’t know how to use their body have a tough time adjusting to playing with men.

This is dumb post for two reasons. You called Hughes a winger when he’s a center and you said Stutzle is the most dynamic. Have you seen Hughes play man.

 

[sparxx87]

This is dumb post for two reasons. You called Hughes a winger when he’s a center and you said Stutzle is the most dynamic. Have you seen Hughes play man.

I believe he’s better suited as a winger. If I’m a coach, he isn’t very good at what I need him to be good at without the puck. I think he’d be more effective with less responsibility. Let him stay in his lane and focus on offense.

Stutzle is the most dynamic.

Yes. As someone who always takes a particular interest in the top GTHL prospects (especially ones applying for exceptional status) I’d guess I’ve probably been watching him for longer than you, too.

Edit: Bookmark my post and I’ll bookmark yours. Let’s see who was a better fortune teller in the coming years?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I believe he’s better suited as a winger. If I’m a coach, he isn’t very good at what I need him to be good at without the puck. I think he’d be more effective with less responsibility. Let him stay in his lane and focus on offense.

Stutzle is the most dynamic.

Yes. As someone who always takes a particular interest in the top GTHL prospects (especially ones applying for exceptional status) I’d guess I’ve probably been watching him for longer than you, too.

Edit: Bookmark my post and I’ll bookmark yours. Let’s see who was a better fortune teller in the coming years?

He literally controlled the play when he was on the ice man and had great defensive impacts. Also 2nd in the league in takeaways behind Mark Stone. What is it he’s not doing without the puck exactly? I didn’t ask what you take particular interest in and it’s completely irrelevant if you watched him more when he was 15 years old.

And okay bet

 

[sparxx87]

He literally controlled the play when he was on the ice man and had great defensive impacts. Also 2nd in the league in takeaways behind Mark Stone. What is it he’s not doing without the puck exactly? I didn’t ask what you take particular interest in and it’s completely irrelevant if you watched him more when he was 15 years old.

And okay bet

So you’re looking at shot metrics?

There is so much nuance to being a good centre that it’s pretty hard to summarize but the most simple is high IQ, anticipation and being able to play fluid but connected with the two d men in their own zone and the two wingers on the attack. Hughes isn’t even bad at reading the play but his size and lack of strength and physicality has him losing far too many plays that he was actually in place to make. He doesn’t ‘dig in’ like the other two so it makes the choice pretty easy if I’m being honest.

You questioned whether I’ve watched him. I responded with a yes, since he was a young kid. It’s very interesting to see a kid you watched make it to the league.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

So you’re looking at shot metrics?

There is so much nuance to being a good centre that it’s pretty hard to summarize but the most simple is high IQ, anticipation and being able to play fluid but connected with the two d men in their own zone and the two wingers on the attack. Hughes isn’t even bad at reading the play but his size and lack of strength and physicality has him losing far too many plays that he was actually in place to make. He doesn’t ‘dig in’ like the other two so it makes the choice pretty easy if I’m being honest.

You questioned whether I’ve watched him. I responded with a yes, since he was a young kid. It’s very interesting to see a kid you watched make it to the league.

Huh what plays is he losing that he was in place to make? His lack of strength and physicality didn’t stop him from finishing 2nd in the league in takeaways. He reads the play extremely well.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I like all 3 alot
Id prob have to go with Stutzle
but I could be wrong there little early still.
Suzuki looks unreal
Hughes as him and NJ grows could turn into a beast too

 

[sparxx87]

Huh what plays is he losing that he was in place to make? His lack of strength and physicality didn’t stop him from finishing 2nd in the league in takeaways. He reads the play extremely well.

In order to properly answer your question we’d need to spend time watching video.

Since we don’t have that opportunity I offered you a bet which you accepted.

 

[Wierzbowski426]

I believe he’s better suited as a winger. If I’m a coach, he isn’t very good at what I need him to be good at without the puck. I think he’d be more effective with less responsibility. Let him stay in his lane and focus on offense.

Stutzle is the most dynamic.

Yes. As someone who always takes a particular interest in the top GTHL prospects (especially ones applying for exceptional status) I’d guess I’ve probably been watching him for longer than you, too.

Edit: Bookmark my post and I’ll bookmark yours. Let’s see who was a better fortune teller in the coming years?

I'm your huckleberry.

Terms,

3 years who has a higher ppg average Hughes or Stutzle. Winner gets to pick the other posters forum avi for 6 months?

Open to negotiation.

P.S. Obviously assuming we are both still around.

 

[bsu]

Hughes/Timmy
Suzuki

 

[Benttheknee]

While I think it is Stutzle>Hughes>Suzuki at this time, the gap is not so large that any one can be better in any give year.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Here I helped you.

Jack Hughes caught covid 19 last year?

I think you need the help.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Agreed". Have to look at the complete pkaÿer, and not only points.

Suzuki in a month will be 2 years older than Hughes and 3 years older than Stutzle. At 21 Stutzle can be one of the best in the league. I would be awfully worried if the player who was drafted 3 years ahead of the rookie in this poll is not the more complete player.

I don't know about that. I think he was probably a bit better overall, especially in the neutral zone, but I felt like Stutzle was more dangerous when he'd get the puck in the offensive zone.

But I will say that despite being 6 months older, Stutzle's has a much more NHL ready body. Not sure who has more room for physical development, but you're not going to find many players in the NHL at Hughes current size and build.

Stutzle actually does not. People fail to remember that Rossi, Lundell and maybe Drysdale were the guys who were dubbed most NHL ready before the draft happened. Sens fans and even press were split on whether he'll return Germany or play in NHL. A lot of Stutzle's success this year has been attributed to him being more NHL ready than some other prospects, which is just false. He just has worked his ass off and his strength was without a doubt his biggest detriment.

He was getting bodied off the puck left and right. In his exist interview, Stutzle repeated the words "get stronger" countless times when asked what he is going to focus on in the off season. Stutzle and Hughes' strength capability are not as far off as some are claiming. Plus, Stutzle has a larger frame and he relies on strength to be dominant in masking the puck, so it'll provide a significant element to his arsenal--as we saw him deploy it in the WJC against guys closer his physical level.

Stutzle can come back next year as an elite player. His determination is nuts. Guy can have a Stamkos like sophomore explosion next year depending how much he puts into his training/growth.

“I realize that now and it helps me a lot to get those things fixed during this first season and that’s why I want to come back stronger.”

“I want to be way, way stronger for next year and just have a great year.”

GARRIOCH ONE-ON-ONE: Tim Stuetzle determined to come back stronger with his rookie season almost in the books | Ottawa Sun

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

At 19, Suzuki was still in the OHL.

Meanwhile, Hughes was the 2nd leading scorer on an NHL team, putting up excellent underlying numbers as a 19 year old. He's already one of the best puck carriers in the league (I believe he's among the leaders in controlled zone entries).

Suzuki is a very good young player, who projects as a reliable top 20-25 center. But he's just not on the same tier of elite talents like Hughes and Stutzle, who both project as guys who could be top 5 at their position.

Hughes has become incredibly underrated, especially by stat watchers. Anyone who watched him play this year knows that he's on the verge of putting up big numbers. He's going to start next year with another 5-10 lbs of muscle (and hopefully some of the puck luck he's due) and go off for 70+ points.

Agreed with this post. Do you think Hughes will be able to gain that much in one off-season though? I don't think it's easy as saying "he just needs to get stronger"; when I see Hughes, I see a frame that might not be able to accommodate that type of strength(or at least that quickly maybe in a couple more years) that some here think he can/needs to get to be elite elite. He strikes me as someone like Nugent Hopkins in terms of stature. Kane is about same size now and Hughes has that escapeability and can get that "man strength" like Kane did over the years but it's different from usage as a winger from a C.

For years, a lot of Sens fans were waiting for Turris to also put on muscle and raise his game to the next level but his stature just could not support it.

 

[KovalSNIPE]

There's no way to not sound biased here, but let's real guys... Long term, its obviously this:

Hughes
Stutzle
Suzuki

You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Development is different for all so that doesn’t matter.

I don’t care for underlying numbers. They’re a business for snake oil salesmen. Not an effective way to measure player value.

I’m also not overly concerned what others project or think. I go based on what I see relative to what I know.

Stutzle is the most dynamic. Elite skater, puck skills, instincts etc. He’s a star in the making and can see the game like a centre. Likely he makes the move as soon as next year.

Suzuki plays an incredibly detailed and mature game for his age. So much of what he does are things you can’t really teach or develop. His impact on winning is what you’re looking for in a centre man.

Hughes is a winger with talent and clearly years work into the tangible skills but lacks that ‘it’ factor and for me. I also think should have been playing in the CHL to adjust to the physicality. These soft and slight players that don’t know how to use their body have a tough time adjusting to playing with men.

That's all I had to hear to end this discussion

 

[Canadienna]

There's no way to not sound biased here, but let's real guys... Long term, its obviously this:

Hughes
Stutzle
Suzuki

You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

These are three talented young stars.

Nothing is obvious. If that's your prediction that's fine, but to think that their careers are somehow easily predictable is asinine.

For as long as hockey has been a sport players have failed that were expected to succeed and players have succeeded that were expected to fail.

This thread is about making predictions, not statements of fact that insult anyone who disagrees.

 

[sparxx87]

That's all I had to hear to end this discussion

I’ll just remind you they’re a business.

With these numbers you may be comparing Taylor Hall with Nick Foligno and actually discover Anders Bjork is better than both. That one was funny.

 

[sparxx87]

I'm your huckleberry.

Terms,

3 years who has a higher ppg average Hughes or Stutzle. Winner gets to pick the other posters forum avi for 6 months?

Open to negotiation.

P.S. Obviously assuming we are both still around.

I’m just not a big stat watcher. Player evaluation is an art, not a science.

..and under no circumstances would a change my picture That’s my day 1 and my two favourite players of all time. Not happening, regardless.

 

[Goomba]

All of your arguments are brutally flawed.

What are your arguments even? That Hughes is greater all-around player a year older? I am confused. It sure as hell isn't about points cause Stutzle's rookie season rivals Hughes' sophomore one.

And if it is about Hughes being better all-around, what's your argument against it being Stutzle's rookie year? That Stutzle was playing in 8th-10th best pro league in the world?

Stutzle in his first 13 games in the NHL was -13.

In his last 40 games he was -5.

Hughes was unequivocally the worst on his team. and he got WORSE as the season went along. Completely the opposite as Stutzle. He went -7 in his first 30 games and -17 in his last 24 games.

Stutzle projects as the better player and has progressed far better in his rookie year and so on vs Hughes, not sure why this is some sort of inane assumption.

Is your argument Hughes is still physically immature? Stutzle was getting bodied off the puck left and right but was physical phenom against his own age group. Stutzle's physical maturity has a far greater edge--especially due to body frame--than Hughes'.

Saying things like 'hughes was the worst on his team' just lets me know you cant even spell New Jersey, let alone guess what number Jack Hughes even wears.. because its obvious youve never watched a second of his play

 

[Goomba]

Jack Hughes caught covid 19 last year?

I think you need the help.

So not only dont you watch Jack play but now, let me guess, covid wasnt even a big deal to you huh?

Imagine trying to discredit a player getting infected with covid and losing most of their muscle gains they made a few months prior

 

[Korpse]

So not only dont you watch Jack play but now, let me guess, covid wasnt even a big deal to you huh?

Imagine trying to discredit a player getting infected with covid and losing most of their muscle gains they made a few months prior

He was quite clearly talking about his rookie year, prior to the pandemic.

 

[Favin]

I have never understood why Jack Hughes is so polarizing to some fans.

"He is a wing"..."can't play man's game"..."wide circles"..."can't play defense"..."depends on linemates"..."perimeter player"...

As a teenager, who was (generously) 160 lbs before covid, he just finished a season when he was among the league leaders in most possession statistics, zone entries, pass completion %, goalposts hit, end-to-end rushes, takeaways, numerous other categories. He centered a line with two forgotten rookies, on probably the NHL's 2nd-to-worst team, and brought them from obscurity and into Calder conversation.

If you are here making any of the italicized arguments above, he has already proved you wrong.
(still accepted are: has shown a muffin one-timer, his face-offs need work, and could use a haircut)

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

So not only dont you watch Jack play but now, let me guess, covid wasnt even a big deal to you huh?

Imagine trying to discredit a player getting infected with covid and losing most of their muscle gains they made a few months prior

I caught second hand embarrassment reading this. You jumped so quick thinking you got me when your fellow poster was in the wrong.

 

[Habano]

Suzuki