The Thin White Duke
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- Aug 11, 2009
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A few of my usual ones shut down recently, but a quick google search leads you to:
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/eicheja01-advanced.html
Jack Eichel or Austin Matthews 17/18
- Thread starter mintmint
- Start date
A few of my usual ones shut down recently, but a quick google search leads you to:
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/e/eicheja01-advanced.html
Snippit
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- Dec 5, 2012
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Why does it matter that Matthews had similar stats after 61 games? That's just a sampling of his games played. The point is he produced at a rate of 0.83 p/gp.
Again, it's highly unlikely that Eichel's point production would fall off so substantially based on his much greater sample of games played. He literally would have needed to maintain two thirds of his production rate and he still out scores Matthews.
You can say, "well, who knows?", but I mean...most reasonable people would be able to say that Eichel could outscore Matthews had he played the remaining 21.
X66
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- Aug 18, 2008
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And to some people 0.83 over 82 games is more impressive than 0.93 over 61.
Who knows if Eichel would have outscored Matthews, no one can prove it.
Who had the more impressive year to you?
Snippit
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Nobody can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, you're right. It's impossible to prove. Just like it's impossible to prove Crosby would have won the Art Ross in the shortened season if he was healthy.
To answer your question:
- Eichel had the better year
- Matthews was a better rookie
Muston Atthews
Bunch of Bangerz
PPG means nothing. It doesn't put wins in the win column nor goals and assists in the points column.
Muston Atthews
Bunch of Bangerz
Snippit
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It means nothing for the 16-17 season, right, but assuming Eichel doesn't get injured via a high ankle sprain again, it's a useful tool for projecting his future production.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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Muston Atthews
Bunch of Bangerz
Snippit
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I think Connor McDavid had a better season than Eichel in 15-16...
Everyone would agree with me, I assure you. McDavid put up less points, though.
I don't hold injuries against a player, unless they're proven to be injury prone.
CantLoseWithMatthews
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McDavid did actually finish higher in Calder voting than Eichel did in 40 fewer games. There's no indication anywhere that people feel similarly with Eichel over Matthews, as Matthews finished higher in Hart voting
Snippit
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I was just answering his question.
I'm not really too concerned about the semantics of "who had the better year" if the breaking point is that Eichel missed a quarter of the season.
I guess you can say, I believe he was the better player this year.
JetsHomer
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Well I mean he also had 4 more assists in 21 less games but I suppose Matthews is somehow the better passer/playmaker?
And yet I'm 100% sure you'd also think Matthews is a better player than Scheifele
CantLoseWithMatthews
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I think a fair takeaway is that what Eichel showed in his 60 games could mean an explosion in offense if healthy next year (to the tune of ~80 points) and I won't fight you on that if it's what you're trying to say
But if you are looking at what they've actually accomplished, Matthews is ahead so far
Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
We know for a fact that Matthews is the better offensive talent than Eichel, seeing as he has outproduced him at the equivalent age/level for something like 10 years in a row.
Eichel has a 1 year head start, so it is only a matter of when, not if, Matthews will surpass him. Some would say it already happened last year, with Matthews badly outplaying him at the WCoH. Matthews also had a better points-per-60. But Eichel did outpace Matthews in PPG production, which is the simplest metric to look at, not to mention having better linemates.
So I think Matthews wa already the better player last year, but this year he will get more ice time, and that will ultimately be the difference. He won't just be ahead in PP60 next year, he'll also be ahead in PPG.
Eichel has a 1 year head start, so it is only a matter of when, not if, Matthews will surpass him. Some would say it already happened last year, with Matthews badly outplaying him at the WCoH. Matthews also had a better points-per-60. But Eichel did outpace Matthews in PPG production, which is the simplest metric to look at, not to mention having better linemates.
So I think Matthews wa already the better player last year, but this year he will get more ice time, and that will ultimately be the difference. He won't just be ahead in PP60 next year, he'll also be ahead in PPG.
Scheifele had more points during the season, but there's a legitimate debate that could be had here already.
Marner with Mono as a rookie still had more points than Eichel ever has in his 2 seasons.
Well I mean he also had 4 more assists in 21 less games but I suppose Matthews is somehow the better passer/playmaker?
And yet I'm 100% sure you'd also think Matthews is a better player than Scheifele
The stats thing has you stumped, so let's ask a random question I guess. Scheifele was better last season, but he's also much older. In fact he did not exceed Matthews rookie total of 69 points until he was in his 5th season and 24 years old.
When he was 23 was when he first hit 60 points. Matthews is off to a far better start to his career.
I think you misunderstood me.
I don't think it's a slam dunk to say Scheifele was even better than Matthews last year.
DrJustice
Registered User
There is a lot of argument over what happened last year but the thread should be about who will be better THIS year.
Eichel IMO is on the verge of an offensive breakout. In a better system, fully healthy I think he will outscore Matthews. I believe he will turn out to be the better offensive player. He's such a lethal playmaker and power-play threat, I think he could reach Backstrom level production on the powerplay with the right teammates and system in place. You can point to the goal scoring all you want, but being able to drive the play and rack up assists counts just as much as the guy who is finishing off the play.
Matthews strikes me as a guy who will turn out to be a better overall player though. He was so impressive as a rookie battling along the boards and overall in the defensive side of the game. At that age especially, it is extremely impressive. Not saying Matthews will be any slouch offensively either, and at this point I would rather have Matthews as an overall player. But to me Eichel has 90+ point potential, Matthews has 80+ point potential with stronger two-way play.
Eichel IMO is on the verge of an offensive breakout. In a better system, fully healthy I think he will outscore Matthews. I believe he will turn out to be the better offensive player. He's such a lethal playmaker and power-play threat, I think he could reach Backstrom level production on the powerplay with the right teammates and system in place. You can point to the goal scoring all you want, but being able to drive the play and rack up assists counts just as much as the guy who is finishing off the play.
Matthews strikes me as a guy who will turn out to be a better overall player though. He was so impressive as a rookie battling along the boards and overall in the defensive side of the game. At that age especially, it is extremely impressive. Not saying Matthews will be any slouch offensively either, and at this point I would rather have Matthews as an overall player. But to me Eichel has 90+ point potential, Matthews has 80+ point potential with stronger two-way play.
Jot
Registered User
Sniper Center whos a complete offensive stud. 50 goals is reachable with his talent. Amazing patience, and puck control. Just an offensive juggernaut.
Eichel in 2017/2018.
Having said that I wouldn't trade Matthews for him. I still believe he has alot more to show in terms of production, both on goal scoring and playmaking.
Leadership, poise, calmness, Two-Way Ability, Puck Possession. For a young team, Matthews is a big part of future growth and professionalism of young Leafs.
I believe leafs will and would win more games with Matthews than Eichel on this team.
Eichel in 2017/2018.
Having said that I wouldn't trade Matthews for him. I still believe he has alot more to show in terms of production, both on goal scoring and playmaking.
Leadership, poise, calmness, Two-Way Ability, Puck Possession. For a young team, Matthews is a big part of future growth and professionalism of young Leafs.
I believe leafs will and would win more games with Matthews than Eichel on this team.
Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk
Effortless sexy.
Matthews. Guy is huge and a beast and I prefer Babcock coaching over...Bylsma? Botterill? Nolan? I forget, sorry.
