Is Ovechkin a greater player than Yzerman and Sakic

[dellzor]

I see you're still quite dull. Picked a random year they won the presidents (Washington Capitals Stats | 2009-2010). They were stacked bud, Ovi just doesn't have the intagibles, game impact, or ability to raise everyone elses game like Sakic and Yzerman could. That's why those two are better

I picked a year where the Red Wings won the president's (95-96)

7/9 of their top scorers are hall of famers what lol. Trying to say that Ovi played on stacked teams but completely disregarding the fact that Yzerman also played on stacked teams is just delusional.

Yzerman played from 83-06 in that span they won the president's 5 times. 94-95, 95-96, 01-02, 03-04, 05-06 (probably would've won one in 04-05 if not for the lockout). Ovechkin played from 05-present and in that time he's won the president's 3 times. In the years that Yzerman won the president's, he never led the team in scoring

94-95, 38 points to Coffey's 58
95-96, 95 points to Fedorov's 107
01-02, 48 points to Shanhan's 75 (Yzerman was injured this year)
03-04, 51 points to Datsyuk's 68
05-06, 34 points to Datsyuk's 87

Whereas the Caps

09-10, 109 points, led team in scoring
15-16, 71 points to Kuznetsov's 77
16-17, 69 points to Backstrom's 86

 

[Mobiandi]

Neither of them come even close to what Ovechkin has personally done. The perception of Ovechkin would be significantly different if he was Canadian or American

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

These guys played when Gretzky and Lemieux were past their primes. Gretzky fell off after turning 30 and Lemieux got cancer while Sakic and Yzerman were in their primes.

So much wrong with this post I don't even know why I'm bothering. Yzerman and Lemieux are the same age and Sakic was freed from Lemieux only when he was 31. Lemieux and Gretzky dominated every scoring race from 1980 to 1997 (except for 95). By then Yzerman was 31 and Sakic was in his injury riddled seasons.

 

[Lunatik]

Yes and it's not even close.

6'3 > 5'11
238 > 185

It's simple math

 

[WarriorofTime]

So much wrong with this post I don't even know why I'm bothering. Yzerman and Lemieux are the same age and Sakic was freed from Lemieux only when he was 31. Lemieux and Gretzky dominated every scoring race from 1980 to 1997 (except for 95). By then Yzerman was 31 and Sakic was in his injury riddled seasons.

Gretzky and Lemieux did not block Sakic and Yzerman from awards. Move on. A new guy every year was winning the Hart in their prime. Whatever years Lemieux or Gretzky did win when they were in the League, they were not the next man up that would have won. They were not blocked. Dale Hawerchuk was probably the guy most "blocked" by Gretkzy and Lemieux, go argue for him if you need to revert everything to "Gretzky and Lemieux"

 

[Fantomas]

You know, it's possible to check how many times Sakic and Yzerman finished 2nd or 3rd in Hart Trophy races. You can do this on Hockey Reference.

Those who claim that these two guys were blocked by Gretzky and Lemieux can do this and discover that...

... Sakic was never top-3 in Hart voting until he won his one and only Hart in 2001. In fact, he was never top-3 in Hart voting apart from that one season.

... Yzerman was top-3 in Hart voting exactly once. ONCE. In 1988-89, when he finished behind the big two. So you can give him a hypothetical Hart here if you want. But that's it.

In no possible universe can either of these guys match or even reach a fraction of Ovechkin's trophy case. Forget it.

Some arguments here are embarrassing. Log off.

 

[crowi]

Yes, and YIKES forever to those who disagree.

 

[pi314]

Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intagibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.

This.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Gretzky and Lemieux did not block Sakic and Yzerman from awards. Move on. A new guy every year was winning the Hart in their prime. Whatever years Lemieux or Gretzky did win when they were in the League, they were not the next man up that would have won. They were not blocked. Dale Hawerchuk was probably the guy most "blocked" by Gretkzy and Lemieux, go argue for him if you need to revert everything to "Gretzky and Lemieux"

Once again and I'll type slowly... I never said Sakic and Yzerman would have had more awards. I said Ovy would have had many less had he played with the likes of 66 and 99. The size of his trophy case is a fallacy. So he's better than his contemporaries. Good for him. Doesn't mean he's better than the other two who managed to elevate their teammates more than Ovi did.

And if you're thinking about bringing up my response to that other poster, it was just to show how ridiculously off base he was when he was saying that Yzerman played when Lemieux was past his prime when they are the same age! I didn't mention there either they would have gotten more awards.

I'm done here.

 

[NYR94]

My ranking:

Ovechkin
Sakic
Yzerman

Ovi's better than both.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Once again and I'll type slowly... I never said Sakic and Yzerman would have had more awards. I said Ovy would have had many less had he played with the likes of 66 and 99. The size of his trophy case is a fallacy. So he's better than his contemporaries. Good for him. Doesn't mean he's better than the other two who managed to elevate their teammates more than Ovi did.

And if you're thinking about bringing up my response to that other poster, it was just to show how ridiculously off base he was when he was saying that Yzerman played when Lemieux was past his prime when they are the same age! I didn't mention there either they would have gotten more awards.

I'm done here.

elevate their teammates , I'm sure Yzerman and Sakic were the ones out there giving Niklas Lidstrom and Patrick Roy some extra pointers. Maybe if Ovechkin gave some better "rah rahs" Mike Green would have actually been able to play defense.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Gosh, imagine how unfortunate it would have been if Ovechkin entered the League the same rookie season as a player viewed as a generational talent and the other best player of his era was also in the same draft year as him... He probably would have never won a single individual award with that level of competition.

 

[Bronxxx]

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[BlueAzN]

LMAOOOO. Yzerman didn't do shit in the playoffs until Fedorov, Lidstrom and Chelios showed up. The wings were a laughing stock when he was the center piece. Thanks for the laugh though.

You do understand, he was the first and biggest reason why the Red Wings started their entire modern dynasty right?

 

[BlueAzN]

lol, the difference between Sakic 2 Cups and Ovechkin 1 cup is "intangibles". Nah..

Do you even know how to read? I literally listed several reasons other than intangibles bud. Sakic had more game impact than Ovechkin and is therefore better. Period. Sorry you can't see it.

 

[BlueAzN]

So arrogant and so wrong at the same time. Hilarious.

Lmao, except everything I've said is factually correct. Even my subjective points are close to the objective truth.

 

[BlueAzN]

My god, you're abrasive. Every post of yours contains unnecessary hostility and insults. Still mad about the latest choke lol.

Seems that way for those that are sensitive twits. Don't worry about my Leafs, we'll be back next year kissing the Lord Stanley's Cup

 

[Randyne]

Top finishes by PPG+GPG:
Alexander Ovechkin 3+8=11
S.Yzerman 0+0=0
J.Sakic 0+0=0

Top 5 finishes by PPG+GPG:
Alexander Ovechkin 4+12=16
S.Yzerman 4+4=8
J.Sakic 5+2=7

Top 10 finishes by PPG+GPG:
Alexander Ovechkin 8+14=22
S.Yzerman 7+6=13
J.Sakic 9+4=13

Hardware:
Alexander Ovechkin 18
S.Yzerman 3
J.Sakic 3

 

[BlueAzN]

poll speaks for itself

but just hardware alone isnt even remotely close

3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 8 Rockets, 1 Conn Smyth vs COMBINED 1 Hart, 2 Lindsays, 1 Selke, 2 COnn Smythe

so give your head a shake there. Youre just wrong.

Clearly you haven't read my posts. You're just listing trophies that are won based on the stats. Game impact and impact on winning the game, Ovi is a clear cut tier below those guys. You're just one of those typical stat checkers. [MOD]

 

[Sweetpotato]

Greater player? Yes.

Better player? Not a chance is he better than Stevie-Y

 

[BlueAzN]

I picked a year where the Red Wings won the president's (95-96)

7/9 of their top scorers are hall of famers what lol. Trying to say that Ovi played on stacked teams but completely disregarding the fact that Yzerman also played on stacked teams is just delusional.

Yzerman played from 83-06 in that span they won the president's 5 times. 94-95, 95-96, 01-02, 03-04, 05-06 (probably would've won one in 04-05 if not for the lockout). Ovechkin played from 05-present and in that time he's won the president's 3 times. In the years that Yzerman won the president's, he never led the team in scoring

94-95, 38 points to Coffey's 58
95-96, 95 points to Fedorov's 107
01-02, 48 points to Shanhan's 75 (Yzerman was injured this year)
03-04, 51 points to Datsyuk's 68
05-06, 34 points to Datsyuk's 87

Whereas the Caps

09-10, 109 points, led team in scoring
15-16, 71 points to Kuznetsov's 77
16-17, 69 points to Backstrom's 86

I applaud you.

This is some good shit. Finally someone putting some effort in, providing some objectivity. You ser deserve my respect. Well done.

Yzerman is still better than Ovi, no question.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think peak Y was better than Ovechkin and that 2-way Y was better than 2-way Ovi also by a slight.

Sakic doesn't hang though, he's a all-time great, Stevie and Ovi are 2nd in line for best ever if Gretz/Lemieux/Crosby don't exist.


I think Ovi and Stevi are top 20, while Sakic is top 40-50ish.

 

[amnesiac]

Clearly you haven't read my posts. You're just listing trophies that are won based on the stats. Game impact and impact on winning the game, Ovi is a clear cut tier below those guys. You're just one of those typical stat checkers. [MOD]

[MOD]

if you put Ovi on the 90s/2000s Wings and Avs, you know the power house clubs that Ovi couldnt benefit from in the pre-cap era? well we'd be talking about his "game impact on winning".... I mean as if Ovi didnt have any impact on his team winning? Are you serious? THe guy is just going to go down in history as the greatest goalscorer in hockey history. Has 3 Harts/Lindsays, and a Cup/Conn SMythe.

[MOD]

 

[amnesiac]

I think peak Y was better than Ovechkin and that 2-way Y was better than 2-way Ovi also by a slight.

Sakic doesn't hang though, he's a all-time great, Stevie and Ovi are 2nd in line for best ever if Gretz/Lemieux/Crosby don't exist.


I think Ovi and Stevi are top 20, while Sakic is top 40-50ish.

what? Did Sakic screw your sister or something?

 

[Fantomas]

Once again and I'll type slowly... I never said Sakic and Yzerman would have had more awards. I said Ovy would have had many less had he played with the likes of 66 and 99.

But then, assuming that Ovechkin got stymied by Lemieux and Gretzky, he then would have had a bunch of 2nd and third finishes in Hart trophy voting would he not? Which Sakic and Yzerman do not have?

What exactly have you proven here?

I'm done here.

Yes you are.