Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by slapKing, Jun 4, 2021.
I can't wait for your interesting take about 1980s goalies.
Well he definitely belongs in a conversation with him, youre talking about a guy who is ~ top 25 all time and considered by many to be the greatest leader to play the game. But I wasnt trying to say he was better than Ovechkin, I agree Ovechkin is better, just that Yzerman would have more hardware than he does now without those guys.
Without Gretzky and Lemieux, Yzerman has the best points per game over a 7 game span by a significant amount. Hes likely got 2 hart trophies, an art ross, and another pearson to go with his Pearson, Selke and Smythe that he already has. A few 1st and 2nd all star teams as well. There are guys who flare up for a year or two who may have won art rosses over him but as far as considering him the best offensive player, Yzerman is the guy everyone would look at as the top dog in that spanbecause he could consistently do it on bad teams. It would be kinda like a poor mans Crosby. There were some injuries in there but hes the guy you can bet on to finish top 3 every year in points, even on bad teams. Maybe Shea Weber is a better example. I would say hes a top 2 or 3 dman of his era (arguably the best defensively), but just due to certain players going off in certain years he doesnt have the hardware. While Yzerman is considered an all time great, losing Gretzky and Lemeiux would magnify the "Weber" effect even more and gain him more respect in the league.
No he wouldn't. I've already explained this.
The only year Yzerman was top-3 in Hart voting was the year he finished 3rd behind Mario and Lemieux. He was never close in Hart voting again.
You can look this up. It's really not hard.
If you stretch your neck in deep enough, you may be able to see what you had for breakfast.
Ovi is greater than both.
Yzerman is my #1 all time favourite player and Sakic is my #3. With all due respect to them, Ovechkin is the often undisputed greatest goal scorer of all time. He's within my all time top 10, and Yzerman/Sakic are around top 25.
Greater in what way?
As a player, the hardware speaks for itself.
As a Captain, no way in hell.
FWIW and my teams growing up fought the likes of the Hawks and Wings, as Captain I’d take Y over anyone else.
Lots of things to dispute. He is Top 3ish with Wayne and Hull with Richard and Mario making great cases to make it a Top 5 with no clear greatest.
And that would be true. If I was suggesting Ovechkin was better than Wayne Gretzky. I'm not.
20 players scored 50 goals in the 92-93 season. I assure you it was much easier to accumulate points back then. It's literally data, not sure what the argument against it is. It was easier to score in the 80s, however, the gap between Gretzky and everyone else doesn't disprove that, it proves how good Gretzky was.
How I see it is that Ovechkin in the statistically tighter post-lockout NHL has led the league in goals 9 times. Bobby is 2nd at 7 times. Gretzky and Richard have done it 5 times. You're right that it can be argued, but I personally don't think it really should. The guy scores the same goal over and over and nobody has ever been able to stop him in 16 seasons. In terms of flat out goal scoring ability he's gotta be #1.
I agree that there's definitely valid arguments from different perspectives. But if you compile them all, I think Ovechkin has the strongest argument of them all.
-> Most (retro) rockets of all time (in a tighter league like you said)
-> Will finish either #2 or #1 all-time in raw goals (despite playing in a significantly lower scoring era)
-> Will likely run away with the all-time adjusted goal record (for whoever cares about that)
The only arguments against are the raw-total crowd, or those that claim that Gretzky/Lemieux could have scored more if they wanted to.
I guess greatness can have many definitions in this context but I’d imagine Ovechkin comes out ahead in most of them
He also likely wins over Fuhr as the best forward in the league in 87/88 without Lemeiux around taking all the votes for a forward. He literally only had one less first place vote than Fuhr that year and finished 4th. I would bet money he takes it without the combo of Lemeiux abd Gretzky taking all the forward votes.
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