Is Ovechkin a greater player than Yzerman and Sakic

what do you think?


  • Total voters
    411

amnesiac

Space Oddity
Jul 10, 2010
13,599
7,362
Montreal
There is no question that Ovechkin has more awards.

Because of that, history will remember him as greater than both.

But real hockey and highlight reel stat hockey are different things.

He’s also the biggest floater of his time.

Ovechkin is closer to Brett Hull than most would like to admit.

If you put a team of 2-way Stevie Y’s against a team of Ovechkins, Stevie Y would own the puck.

The Ovechkin team would just be standing around by the face off circle waiting for someone else to do something so they could get a one timer.

I don’t even think it would be close.

If they played 100 games, Stevie Y would win all 100.

Complete hockey players are guys you win with.


It’s not a coincidence that both these guys have won more.

I agree that complete players are very valuable to a winning franchise, but dont pretend that both Stevie and Sakic werent blessed with having dynasty type clubs in the pre-cap era. They dont win their Cups if it wasnt for their all-star support (Lidstrom, Feds, Shanny, later had Hasek, Hull, Robitaille, and Forsberg, Roy, Bourque, Blake). Ovie didnt have those kinds of players. Backstrom, Kuzy, and Carlson are good and all, but not the legends the Wings and Avs had.

And Ovie may be more one dimensial today, but in his prime he was anything but one dimensional. He was getting 50-60 assists, 100+ points, and 200+ hits a season. You dont win 3 Harts by being one dimensional, come on now. The guy is a winger, youre not expected to play a strong 2 way game on the wing. Last Selke winning winger was like 20 years ago. Do you think Yzerman and Sakic were greater than Howe, Jagr, Richard, Lafleur too?
 
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davinhimself

Registered User
Nov 9, 2009
301
137
Queens, NY
Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intagibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.


You could just be arrogant and wrong ‍♂️
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
2,581
4,197
Ovechkin - and it’s not even close.

It’s still hilarious how much Ovechkin gets disrespected. Ovechkin and Crosby are extremely close in an all time ranking (regardless of if you have Crosby higher), but imagine almost 30% of posters saying one of the other guys was better than Crosby? It’s ridiculous LOL.

If Ovi was a Canadian, people wouldn’t give a shit that his TEAM didn’t win 3 cups, and they’d be jacking off at the idea of a Canadian born player having 9 rockets and a chance at the all time goal record despite the era Ovi played in.
 

Zamuz

Registered User
Oct 27, 2011
2,952
1,161
Finland
I’ll tell you what, I could not downplay Ovechkin’s unique accomplishments by ranking him below either Sakic or Yzerman on all time lists at this point.

I would place Ovechkin higher in all time ranking.

However, if playing in a game 7 tonight with my mother’s life on the line, I choose Yzerman or Sakic above Ovie without a moments hesitation. Not sure if that should influence who I think is greater

No thank you, give me peak Ovechkin for that game.
 
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ThatsSoSlavin

Registered User
Aug 23, 2018
788
647
Well if you knew how to read...
I never said these guys never played on stacked teams. They all played on stack teams. My main point is that you're the typical HF'er only looking at stats and awards. You watch the 3 play, it becomes pretty obvious who had more impact on winning the game. And because you lack comprehension skills, let me spell it out. Ovi is a distant 3rd among the three men we're discussing. Ovi is an all time great, but seriously overrated.
 
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ThatsSoSlavin

Registered User
Aug 23, 2018
788
647
You literally told me ovi played on a stacked team, I showed you how they weren’t even close in comparison, your brought up a president trophy winning season where brook laich was the 5th top scorer, don’t back pedal, you’re Cleary just WRONG
Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intagibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.
 
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koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
17,244
16,982
No thank you, give me peak Ovechkin for that game.
Ya, and his legendary portfolio of big game performances, especially in relation to the other two. Especially internationally, Ovechkin has showed for Russia. Every time.
 
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Pizza!Pizza!

Registered User
Sep 25, 2018
4,716
7,183
Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intangibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.
I'm saving and stealing your bullet points for future posts. Its a perfect list.
 

ottawa

Avatar of the Year*
Nov 7, 2012
33,703
10,208
Orléans/Toronto
Yes, because Zoomers would pick Sakic and Yzerman over the more recent legend Ovechkid? I feel sorry for you bud lol. I don't think you understand how age works...

Zoomers would pick players they've never seen play

source: your occupation (high school kiddo)
 

JJ68

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
1,310
1,102
Ovechkin has more harts than both Sakic and Yzerman combined.

He’d be ahead of both if I made a list.


this never makes sense. You realize Ovie wouldnt have any Harts either if he played at the same time as Mario, Wayne, Jagr etc??
 

Individual 1

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
1,464
352
this never makes sense. You realize Ovie wouldnt have any Harts either if he played at the same time as Mario, Wayne, Jagr etc??
Yzerman lost 1 Hart trophy to Mario and Gretzky which was in 88-89
Sakic didn't lose a Hart trophy to any of the noted players.

Ovi has been top 2 in Hart voting 5 times, Sakic and Yzerman combined are only top 6 in voting 4 times.
 

Randyne

Registered User
May 20, 2012
1,171
1,877
this never makes sense. You realize Ovie wouldnt have any Harts either if he played at the same time as Mario, Wayne, Jagr etc??
During their (Sakic/Yzerman) primes Gretzky won 1 hart/Jagr 1/Lemieux 2.
And Ovie would have many Harts scoring 100+ goals per season in the 80s
 
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Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
16,737
3,101
Duesseldorf
Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intagibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.
Yzerman was almost traded because he couldn't "win". Both won with stacked teams. Stacked teams like that were not even possible during Ovechkin's career. I mean, you have Foppa and Fedorov as second line centres, for example. Both are better players than anything Ovi ever played with.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
The funny thing is that Ovechkin only won the Rocket two out of the five years of his peak stretch. It was only after he left his ultra-dominant play did he start racking up the hardware. Guess you have to figure out what to make of that before you can properly place him.

He started piling up Rockets partly because he abandoned a more all-round offensive game to become a designated sniper. Another part of it is also competition. After Stamkos fell off from his younger goal scoring self, Ovechkin didn't really have any serious competition for the goal scoring title. Insert a guy like Bure or Bossy there, and Ovechkin doesn't win most of his post peak Rockets.
 
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DonM

The Industrial Revolution and its consequences
May 18, 2015
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Ovechkin is certainly the most talented of the three. I'd still take either Sakic or Yzerman on my team over him though.
 

sdf

Registered User
Jan 23, 2015
2,220
391
Rostov on Don
In season 2010-11 he started declained, i thought that he is done, but then it was a surprise for me that he bacame again a superstar in the nhl in that lockout season. I was really surprised, but then i figured how he did that. Lol. The bastard simply changed and simplyfied his game, that he just stoped try to do some playmaking stuff and plays with the puck, and started to be focusing on shooting to the net. f***ing clown :laugh:
 

MakeTheGoalsLarger

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
3,521
1,192
Antarctica
I see a few people pushing the argument that Ovechkin didn't have the privilege of playing on stacked teams. To me the Caps have been a stacked team for the better part of the last 12 years or so. So the Caps didn't have a Patrick Roy in the last decade? Ok tell me which team did?

All cups are won by stacked teams. But some players help their stacked teams win more than others.

Ovechkin struggles scoring in key moments.Here's a list of the all time leading scorers in overtime in the playoffs.

NHL Records

So Sakic is first and Ovechkin is nowhere to be found. Yet his own teammate Nicklas Backstrom is 10th.
Ovie's international play is also very lacklustre.
 
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SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
8,489
6,402
I hated all three, and with passion!

Maybe three of my least favourite hockey players ever. Or at least close to it.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,046
5,653
Ottawa
Id put them all around the same level.

In that second tier of great forwards after Gretzky and lemieux.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
22,247
10,127
He started piling up Rockets partly because he abandoned a more all-round offensive game to become a designated sniper. Another part of it is also competition. After Stamkos fell off from his younger goal scoring self, Ovechkin didn't really have any serious competition for the goal scoring title. Insert a guy like Bure or Bossy there, and Ovechkin doesn't win most of his post peak Rockets.

I get what you are saying here but Ovi was still a better goal scorer and in the ideal environment to get more Richards than the other 3 guys listed here.

He is simply the greatest goal scorer of all time.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
I get what you are saying here but Ovi was still a better goal scorer and in the ideal environment to get more Richards than the other 3 guys listed here.

He is simply the greatest goal scorer of all time.

For me personally, the greatest goal scorer of all time must show better versatility than just a snipe. In my book Mario Lemieux is probably the greatest goal scorer ever because he could score in all and every ways. He could score on his backhand with a Nordique player riding rodeo on his back from the neutral zone and in, he was lethal one-on-one, he was lethal through traffic, he could masquerade his sweep shot, and all that. Ovechkin wasn't even that good on breakaways/shootouts, just average. The greatest goal scorer of all time just can't be average on a breakaway, in my book, it just doesn't make sense.
 
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