Is Ovechkin a greater player than Yzerman and Sakic

[stevo61]

I think with how Ovi plays these days as he ages we sometimes forget about how exciting and dynamic he was as a younger player. Sure he isnt the all around player the 2 were but the guy is the greatest goal scorer of all time in my view and thats obviously worth a lot

 

[amnesiac]

Ovi was the Gretzky or Lemieux of his generation... he prevented guys like Datsyuk, Tavares and Iginla from winning the hart who were the Sakic’s/Yzerman of theirs.

yeah, Im sorry but Dats, Iggy, and Tavares are nowhere near the legends that Sakic and Yzerman were. Bad comparison.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

yeah, Im sorry but Dats, Iggy, and Tavares are nowhere near the legends that Sakic and Yzerman were. Bad comparison.

You’re right, however if you have any sort of brain you’d understand where i’m coming from.

 

[amnesiac]

Idk how anyone thinks Ovi is better than both unless they look at just the stats. Both Sakic and Yzerman were guys you built championship teams around and they will deliver. Ovi had stacked teams and continuously failed and the one time his team pulled through, it wasn't like the lit the world on fire. This is a joke. It's classic HF

1. Stats over eye test
2. Not understanding it's about game impact and not numbers
3. Recency bias
4. Highlights over the entire game
5. Not understanding intagibles

I should open up a school, business would be booming with the help you guys need.

poll speaks for itself

but just hardware alone isnt even remotely close

3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 8 Rockets, 1 Conn Smyth vs COMBINED 1 Hart, 2 Lindsays, 1 Selke, 2 COnn Smythe

so give your head a shake there. Youre just wrong.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Probably at his peak but Joe Sakic in his mid-30s was still an elite player and not just an elite-scorer.

I guess I'd say peak Ovie is better than both but Sakic and probably Yzerman too late in their careers were the better players. I remember an old Sakic in that final playoff series against Detroit being like the best Colorado player on the ice lol.

 

[stokes84]

Ovie is pretty close to earning a spot on hockey’s Mt. Rushmore. He easily outranks both.

 

[canuckking1]

Don't see how you could make any argument for either Sakic/yzerman. You could combine all the individual trophies those 2 won and OV's trophy case would still dwarf it.

 

[amnesiac]

You’re right, however if you have any sort of brain you’d understand where i’m coming from.

well frankly youre comparison doesnt exactly make Ovi look that all that great. Its one thing to ahead of Sakic and Yzerman year after year, but being ahead of Tavares, Dats, Iggy.... I mean, there were many players that were. Not just Ovi.

Maybe your brain didnt think that one through. Sorry.

 

[Czech Your Math]

I think with how Ovi plays these days as he ages we sometimes forget about how exciting and dynamic he was as a younger player. Sure he isnt the all around player the 2 were but the guy is the greatest goal scorer of all time in my view and thats obviously worth a lot

What you say is true. He was a great player at his peak, but it was basically 3 years and the drop off was so sudden and dramatic. He used to skate well, carry the puck, create assists through rebounds or double teams, etc. Then it just stopped and never returned, his possession game and playmaking suddenly faded away to a large extent. If he had a 5+ year peak or a higher level during his prime (the years besides those 3), it would probably be too much for Sakic & Yzerman to overcome, even with Sakic's playoff heroics, because it's not like Ovechkin hasn't been good in the playoffs himself.

 

[cowboy82nd]

yeah, Im sorry but Dats, Iggy, and Tavares are nowhere near the legends that Sakic and Yzerman were. Bad comparison.

I’m sorry but Iggy and Tavares don’t come close to Dats.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

If I want to win a championship I'm taking both of them before him. so no.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Winning the Cup gets so overrated here.

I wonder how many Ovechkin would have if he got to play with Forsberg, Roy, Lidstrom, Fedorov and many other HHOF players.

The best player that Ovechkin has ever played with is Nick Backstrom, and the second best would be 2018 Kuznetsov. Still managed to win the Cup and be playoff MVP, on top of the huge collection of awards and records in the regular season.

 

[K Fleur]

This debate stopped being interesting 10 years ago.

 

[Fantomas]

Bourque only won the one cup, and couldn't do it until he joined a stacked team. Is he overrated?

Sakic and Yzerman played on extremely deep teams. Much deeper than the Capitals ever were.

I grew up watching hockey in the 90s like many people. But don't let the nostalgia get to you.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

The funny thing is that Ovechkin only won the Rocket two out of the five years of his peak stretch. It was only after he left his ultra-dominant play did he start racking up the hardware. Guess you have to figure out what to make of that before you can properly place him.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I never mentioned Sakic or Yzerman would have more trophies... Only that Ovi would have less.

Ah well, that would seem to be a relevant discussion point for the topic at hand, hence why I brought it up.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The funny thing is that Ovechkin only won the Rocket two out of the five years of his peak stretch. It was only after he left his ultra-dominant play did he start racking up the hardware. Guess you have to figure out what to make of that before you can properly place him.

He would have almost certainly three-peated Rockets if he didn't get himself suspended in 2009-10. Finished 1 goal fewer than Crobsy and Stamkos in about 10 fewer games.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Winning the Cup gets so overrated here.

I wonder how many Ovechkin would have if he got to play with Forsberg, Roy, Lidstrom, Fedorov and many other HHOF players.

The best player that Ovechkin has ever played with is Nick Backstrom, and the second best would be 2018 Kuznetsov. Still managed to win the Cup and be playoff MVP, on top of the huge collection of awards and records in the regular season.

People forget that Yzerman and Sakic won their Cups before the Salary Cap was in place. Those Avs and Wings teams were crazy stacked in ways that aren't as possible in the post-cap era. There's a reason everbody who was anybody got Cups in the pre-cap era. The "best players to never win a Cup" list is absolutely dominated by players that played post-salary cap for a reason. Sakic and Yzerman each played with teammates that were considered by many to be better or their equal when healthy/at their peak. Ovechkin's has never had a teammate any logical person would argue is on his level like a Patrick Roy, Peter Forsberg, Niklas Lidstrom or Sergei Federov

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

What you say is true. He was a great player at his peak, but it was basically 3 years and the drop off was so sudden and dramatic. He used to skate well, carry the puck, create assists through rebounds or double teams, etc. Then it just stopped and never returned, his possession game and playmaking suddenly faded away to a large extent. If he had a 5+ year peak or a higher level during his prime (the years besides those 3), it would probably be too much for Sakic & Yzerman to overcome, even with Sakic's playoff heroics, because it's not like Ovechkin hasn't been good in the playoffs himself.

Who cares if OV fell off from his peak (not sure why you're not including 05/06 when he was a lindsay finalist, Calder winner and 3rd in goals and pts)? From 10/11-present: hart, hart finalist, multiple lindsay finalists, smythe, 7x rocket, 7x ASTs. That's already a greater career than Sakic and Yzerman. Now add in 05/06-09/10 and it's not even a debate.

OV has 6 seasons as a lindsay finalist and 5 as a hart finalist. Sakic has 2 and 1, Yzerman 1 and 1. So why is it that OV needs more peak years? Sakic and Yzerman need the peak seasons, not OV. Read the finalist #s again, it's not a typo.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Ah well, that would seem to be a relevant discussion point for the topic at hand, hence why I brought it up.

Ovi plays in the Gretzky and Lemieux era, he probably has no more hardware than Sakic and Yzerman.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

People forget that Yzerman and Sakic won their Cups before the Salary Cap was in place. Those Avs and Wings teams were crazy stacked in ways that aren't as possible in the post-cap era. There's a reason everbody who was anybody got Cups in the pre-cap era. The "best players to never win a Cup" list is absolutely dominated by players that played post-salary cap for a reason. Sakic and Yzerman each played with teammates that were considered by many to be better or their equal when healthy/at their peak. Ovechkin's has never had a teammate any logical person would argue is on his level like a Patrick Roy, Peter Forsberg, Niklas Lidstrom or Sergei Federov

That’s my whole point. Even at that, Sakic’s 2 Cups isn’t far off from Ovechkin’s 1 Cup. It’s not like he’s got more rings than fingers on his hand.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ovi plays in the Gretzky and Lemieux era, he probably has no more hardware than Sakic and Yzerman.

Yzerman and Sakic play in the "Gretzky and Lemieux" don't exist and they aren't getting more hardware either, except for maybe 1 Hart Trophy for Yzerman which moves him from 0 to 1.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That’s my whole point. Even at that, Sakic’s 2 Cups isn’t far off from Ovechkin’s 1 Cup. It’s not like he’s got more rings than fingers on his hand.

Yeah, and all three have one Conn Smythe. It's just typical nonsense. If "intagiblez" means having Patrick Roy as your Goaltender and it resulting in one more Cup, great, that's your argument, it's just not a particularly strong one in my book.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Yzerman and Sakic play in the "Gretzky and Lemieux" don't exist and they aren't getting more hardware either, except for maybe 1 Hart Trophy for Yzerman which moves him from 0 to 1.

So if they all play in the same era, Ovi has maybe the same number of trophies than Sakic and Yzerman. About 2.

 

[WarriorofTime]

These guys played when Gretzky and Lemieux were past their primes. Gretzky fell off after turning 30 and Lemieux got cancer while Sakic and Yzerman were in their primes.

Clearly everyone who at any point played in the same League as Gretzky and Lemieux was barred from ever winning individual trophies. Never mind who actually won individual awards during the years those players were in their primes, or where said players actually finished in Hart Trophy Balloting or Art Ross finishes, the mere existence of Gretzky and Lemieux alone was enough to block them from any and all accolades.