Is Jack Eichel better than Auston Matthews?

[LeafsNation75]

What kind of crap is this? For someone that can’t stand “bashing” posts this is just ridiculous. Also I’m still waiting for those posts where I disregard Matthews goal scoring and how Andersen is better than Hellebuyck. I answered all your questions and provided posts. As you say, If you don’t answer mine it’ll be obvious you’re avoiding it.

I was simply saying if Buffalo wants to get better and into playoff contention they need to finish higher than 23rd overall which is their best season since they drafted Eichel. So I was just stating what the standings were because those numbers don't lie.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You know I said a 1C and not the leafs 1C. Stop twisting things around, you know exactly what I was talking about. And yeah, it was a small minority of leaf fans talking about Zaitsev. That’s my point. That poster was talking about how people are calling Dahlin the McDavid of Dmen and Risto a 1D, that’s certainly by a small minority as well. Why does one get mentioned and one gets disregarded?

I remember reading a lot more comments on here prior to Buffalo drafting Dahlin that he was the Connor McDavid among Defenseman, compared to what Leafs fans said about Kadri and Zaitsev.

 

[Dache]

I was simply saying if Buffalo wants to get better and into playoff contention they need to finish higher than 23rd overall which is their best season since they drafted Eichel. So I was just stating what the standings were because those numbers don't lie.

I thats not simply what you were stating and it’s obvious. Again, can you please stop hiding and show my posts where I’ve disregarded Matthews goal scoring as you claimed. I showed posts of everything I claimed. And maybe your reasoning for choosing Andersen over Hellebuyck finally?

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

QoT is a good argument as well, I wouldn’t just throw that to the side and ignore it. That’s what a site like this is for, having reasonable arguments and conversations. But you didn’t have that at all, as soon as any point was brought up for Eichel you start with the “Matthews sucks” nonsense as if everyone has to agree that Matthews is the best in every single way or were all haters.

Saber's posters started with the "Eichel has only played with Joe schmoes and Matthews has spent his whole career playing with gods". It's a factor, but, again he only started playing with Marner last season. Before that it was Nylander who until last year wasn't that much better than guys like Reinhart, Kane, Skinner, etc. and Hyman who is nowhere near as good as those guys. Matthews is the only reason he's a 40 point player.

 

[Dache]

I remember reading a lot more comments on here prior to Buffalo drafting Dahlin that he was the Connor McDavid among Defenseman, compared to what Leafs fans said about Kadri and Zaitsev.

Really? You go find Sabre fans saying Dahlin is the next McDavid, I’ll go find Leaf fans calling Kadri a 1C and we’ll see who has more, deal?

let me know when you find some and I’ll start counting the leaf fans in here.

 

[Dache]

Saber's posters started with the "Eichel has only played with Joe schmoes and Matthews has spent his whole career playing with gods". It's a factor, but, again he only started playing with Marner last season. Before that it was Nylander who until last year wasn't that much better than guys like Reinhart, Kane, Skinner, etc. and Hyman who is nowhere near as good as those guys. Matthews is the only reason he's a 40 point player.

Sabres fans made that argument first yes, in response to leaf fans using playoff success as an argument for Matthews. Making the playoffs isn’t just about Matthews vs Eichel though and that’s how teammates become involved.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Saber's posters started with the "Eichel has only played with Joe schmoes and Matthews has spent his whole career playing with gods". It's a factor, but, again he only started playing with Marner last season. Before that it was Nylander who until last year wasn't that much better than guys like Reinhart, Kane, Skinner, etc. and Hyman who is nowhere near as good as those guys. Matthews is the only reason he's a 40 point player.

Before the 2018-19 Season it can be said Matthews wasn't even on Toronto's #1 power play line. However that changed after the Tavares signing when Babcock put him out with Tavares, Marner, Kadri, and Rielly.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah I'm not debating it. I'm saying it wasn't that much of a glaring difference pre Marner to outweigh all the other things like being a year younger (for me that's in play for 2 more seasons when both guys are at least 25), the extra PP and average TOI that Eichel has gotten, etc.

Seriously?

Last two years one player has played with Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, Kapanen, Johnsson, Barrie

The other has played with Reinhart, Olofsson (one sesson), Okoposo (whos always injured) Skinner (who was brutal last season), Dahlin (a 18/19 year old), Ristolainen...

Want me to tally the point difference for you and still say its about the same?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Seriously?

Last two years one player has played with Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, Kapanen, Johnsson, Barrie

The other has played with Reinhart, Olofsson (one sesson), Okoposo (whos always injured) Skinner (who was brutal last season), Dahlin (a 18/19 year old), Ristolainen...

Want me to tally the point difference for you and still say its about the same?

In Matthews rookie season he also played every game with Nylander/Brown and Hyman who were also rookies themselves.

Plus in the case of Hyman he wasn't the same player we see today, because a lot of Leafs fans hated seeing him with Matthews at that time.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

Seriously?

Last two years one player has played with Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Rielly, Kapanen, Johnsson, Barrie

The other has played with Reinhart, Olofsson (one sesson), Okoposo (whos always injured) Skinner (who was brutal last season), Dahlin (a 18/19 year old), Ristolainen...

Want me to tally the point difference for you and still say its about the same?

I guess you can't read at all.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

Sabres fans made that argument first yes, in response to leaf fans using playoff success as an argument for Matthews. Making the playoffs isn’t just about Matthews vs Eichel though and that’s how teammates become involved.

It was a Sabers fan who brought up playoff success to say that Eichel, who's never even made the playoffs is better. Either way, this is just a pissing match both are fantastic players with so little difference between them. This has been completely ridiculous lol.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Really? You go find Sabre fans saying Dahlin is the next McDavid, I’ll go find Leaf fans calling Kadri a 1C and we’ll see who has more, deal?
View attachment 387088
let me know when you find some and I’ll start counting the leaf fans in here.

Here is a poll from last year where Dahlin got the most votes at 105 saying he would be drafted 1st overall ahead of Eichel, MacKinnon, Matthews, and Lafrenere if they were all available in the same draft class.

Now before you say McDavid was not an option do you really think Dahlin would go 1st ahead of Matthews, MacKinnon, and Eichel in that hypothetical scenario?

At time of draft - who would be drafted first? Eichel/Matthews/Mack/Dahlin/Lafreniere? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

 

[Dache]

It was a Sabers fan who brought up playoff success to say that Eichel, who's never even made the playoffs is better. Either way, this is just a pissing match both are fantastic players with so little difference between them. This has been completely ridiculous lol.

No that’s not true, that’s not the start of that part of the debate. But you are right about the last part of the post ha ha

 

[Dache]

Here is a poll from last year where Dahlin got the most votes at 105 saying he would be drafted 1st overall ahead of Eichel, MacKinnon, Matthews, and Lafrenere if they were all available in the same draft class.

Now before you say McDavid was not an option do you really think Dahlin would go 1st ahead of Matthews, MacKinnon, and Eichel in that hypothetical scenario?

At time of draft - who would be drafted first? Eichel/Matthews/Mack/Dahlin/Lafreniere? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

This is not proof of anything you claimed. I’ll answer your question when you finally answer some of mine. You’ve asked for proof from me about several things, all of which I’ve provided. Now you’re giving me something that does not at all prove what you’re claiming yet again. Still waiting for where I’ve disregarded Matthews goals, how Andersen is better than Hellebuyck and now who called Dahlin the next McDavid.

 

[canucklover123]

So I'll ask for a third time.

If you swapped the teams that had drafted them, does anyone think Matthews would still have the slightly higher point total?

Through 4 seasons, AM34 has only paced 4 points per season better than Eichel.

While Eichel consistently has to match up with the other teams' top Ds and defensive forwards.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I guess you can't read at all.

And I guess you cant logically think

 

[Canadian Finn]

19 page eh.

guess it's true.

lemmings can't turn away form a car crash.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

And I guess you cant logically think

Says the clown that cant figure out what pre Marner means

 

[nbwingsfan]

In Matthews rookie season he also played every game with Nylander/Brown and Hyman who were also rookies themselves.

Plus in the case of Hyman he wasn't the same player we see today, because a lot of Leafs fans hated seeing him with Matthews at that time.

Cool cool, what does that have to do with the last two seasons?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Says the clown that cant figure out what pre Marner means

Pre Marner? Hes played his entire career on Marners team : laugh:

 

[LeafsNation75]

Cool cool, what does that have to do with the last two seasons?

So why is it okay to mention who Eichel has played with his whole career in Buffalo and it's wrong to mention who Matthews played with in his first two seasons?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Pre Marner? Hes played his entire career on Marners team : laugh:

Matthews and Marner were not playing together full time at 5v5 until Sheldon Keefe became the Leafs head coach. In fact they weren't placed on the same 5v5 line together until December 21, 2019 when Toronto was playing Detroit.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

Pre Marner? Hes played his entire career on Marners team : laugh:

Yeah, he played like 70 minutes with Marner at 5v5 before last year, you know 5v5 where he has more goals than anyone else?

 

[nbwingsfan]

So why is it okay to mention who Eichel has played with his whole career in Buffalo and it's wrong to mention who Matthews played with in his first two seasons?

I listed the last two seasons, not their career. What they did as rookies is entirely irrelevant to whos the better player today.

 

[varano]

I think Eichel has more heart and is a more complete player. Matthews is a better goal scorer.

I think they're both great players. I'd probably pick Eichel at this point because he really seems like he wants to win. Matthews to me has always felt like a guy that wants stats