Is Jack Eichel better than Auston Matthews?

[nbwingsfan]

Yes Matthews might have not shown up on the score sheet when Toronto got eliminated by Boston in 2018 and 2019 in those Game 7's.

However in the 2019 series he was the Leafs best player and he wasn't the reason they lost. Plus when he was limited to just 18:48 of ice time despite the Leafs only being down 3-1 for the majority of that 3rd period, Mike Babcock should be blamed for not giving him more ice time in a critical game like that.

Also when they got eliminated by Washington in Game 6 during the 2017 playoffs, Matthews was the only Maple Leafs player that night who scored this goal in the 3rd period giving them a 1-0 lead. So it wasn't his fault that they lost and he showed up when it mattered most.

In 4 elimination games he has 1pt... That one point being a gimme goal when the puck took a strange bounce. Dont try and spin that hes been good in them. 18:48 of ice time is more than enough for a player of his skill level to produce something.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You were the one who started with all this how Matthews has not yet won a playoff series, so don't say how Eichel has never made the playoffs and I only quoted you when replying to another Leafs fan on here. So if you don't want to be quoted my advice is not to post something like that.

Actually you posted that Matthews made the playoffs, almost like this was a single handed feat, and that Eichel had not. I posted this was a silly point to make in his favour, since teams make playoffs not players, especially given that Matthews plays on a better team, where Eichel has been closer to tire fire teams. Don't you remember? Your point does not make sense either way, I don't know what is better, making the post season playoffs and losing in the 1st rd every year, or not making them and atleast never losing a playoff rd. Your point is still a bad one. But if you insist that Matthews made the playoffs single handedly, then he lost in the first rd single handedly also right, using your own criteria.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Your point does not make sense either way, I don't know what is better, making the post season playoffs and not winning a rd, or not making them and atleast never losing a playoff rd.

Matthews and Toronto making the playoffs looks a lot better than Eichel and Buffalo finishing 23rd, 26th, 31st, 27th, and 25th in the 5 years since his rookie season.

 

[Lemontree]

No, but Eichel is a fantastic hockey player who is a legit top line C.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews and Toronto making the playoffs looks a lot better than Eichel and Buffalo finishing 23rd, 26th, 31st, 27th, and 25th in the 5 years since his rookie season.

Leafs have been a better team than Buffalo. I think I just posted this. Makes you wonder what Eichel could do on a better team with similar players Matthews plays with. Still both players have never experienced a post season playoffs series win, if you want to continue talking team success. Matthews is 0-4, Eichel we will wait to see when and if Buffalo can ice a team that is capable of making the playoffs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

In 4 elimination games he has 1pt... That one point being a gimme goal when the puck took a strange bounce. Dont try and spin that hes been good in them. 18:48 of ice time is more than enough for a player of his skill level to produce something.

Matthews should have been given more ice time in a 3-1 game in the 3rd period of a Game 7 instead of 18:48, so it wasn't enough time for a player like him.

Also even though I don't consider the qualifying series as actual the actual 2020 playoffs, the NHL still counts the players stats as playoff points and in Game 4 against Columbus when Toronto was down 2-1 in the series and facing elimination since they were losing 3-0, Matthews had 3 points which included assists on Toronto's 2nd and 3rd goals. Plus he scored the game winning goal in overtime.

So for the purpose of stats only he as 4 points in elimination games.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Leafs have been a better team than Buffalo. I think I just posted this. Makes you wonder what Eichel could do on a better team with similar players Matthews plays with. Still both players have never experienced a post season playoffs series win, if you want to continue talking team success. Matthews is 0-4, Eichel we will wait to see when and if Buffalo can ice a team that is capable of making the playoffs.

Maybe Buffalo should try to finish higher in the overall standings besides 23rd which has been their best year with Eichel before you can think about them making the playoffs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Maybe Buffalo should try to finish higher in the overall standings besides 23rd which has been their best year with Eichel before you can think about them making the playoffs.

I am sure they are trying. They have a new GM. The owners know how to win in the NFL. Maybe they will get it right. Either way, not making the playoffs or making them and losing in the first rd is a low bar for both teams, and players. Not sure why you raised it? There are plenty of young star players that have made the playoffs and won multiple playoff rds. Are they all better than Eichel or Matthews? Makes zero sense.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I am sure they are trying. They have a new GM. The owners know how to win in the NFL. Maybe they will get it right. Either way, not making the playoffs or making them and losing in the first rd is a low bar for both teams, and players. Not sure why you raised it? There are plenty of young star players that have made the playoffs and won multiple playoff rds. Are they all better than Eichel or Matthews? Makes zero sense.

Just because the Bills are finally winning in the NFL and have the same owners as the Sabres, that doesn't mean anything since they are two different sports.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just because the Bills are finally winning in the NFL and have the same owners as the Sabres, that doesn't mean anything since they are two different sports.

I never said it would ensure success. But having owner's that turned around another professional sports team is not a bad thing. Better than having owners that were not successful at all.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Matthews should have been given more ice time in a 3-1 game in the 3rd period of a Game 7 instead of 18:48, so it wasn't enough time for a player like him.

Also even though I don't consider the qualifying series as actual the actual 2020 playoffs, the NHL still counts the players stats as playoff points and in Game 4 against Columbus when Toronto was down 2-1 in the series and facing elimination since they were losing 3-0, Matthews had 3 points which included assists on Toronto's 2nd and 3rd goals. Plus he scored the game winning goal in overtime.

So for the purpose of stats only he as 4 points in elimination games.

In games in which Matthews team has been eliminated he was one point. Stop trying to spin this.

Once again, 18:54 should be more than enough time to get a point for someone of his level. You think hes definitely going to get a goal if he gets two or three more shifts?

Ennis had a point in 11mins
Bergeron scored with 17mins
Coyle scored with 12mins
Johansson scored with 9mins
Kuraly with 13mins

If 19mins of icetime isnt enough for Matthews to produce anything in an elimination game then he isnt the player you think he is. Amazing the excuses you can come up with.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I never said it would ensure success. But having owner's that turned around another professional sports team is not a bad thing. Better than having owners that were not successful at all.

Except you are leaving out that since Terry Pegula became the Bills owner he's on his second full time coach, where as with the Sabres there have been 5 head coaches who have been fired since becoming their owner and is on his 6th head coach.

The Sabres have also fired 3 GM's since Pegula arrived and is now on his 4th GM.

So it's taken a long time for the Bills to have any success and a lot longer for the Sabres.

 

[Dache]

We might as well wrap this thread up guys, Matthews is garbage and only paced 45+ goals for the last three years because of Marner and Nylander. Meanwhile Jack Eichel is the best player in the world by a mile simply because he has played with Sam Reinhart who is basically Jack Johnson as a forward according to Sabres fans in here.

Honestly man, this type of stuff is where all the “leaf hate” comes from. Not one person said Matthews isn’t a great player and great goal scorer, not one player said he’s not much better than Marner or Nylander. All anyone has said is to not ignore the contributions that Matthews teammates have made compared to the ones that Eichels have made. Something many leaf fans do in any Bergeron/Pasta/Marchand thread. But the second that happens the handful of usual suspects start screaming bloody murder like this.

 

[Dache]

The better player got paid more.

For less years, just what you’re looking for from your top players

 

[Dache]

Bolded: False. He has always had massively positive advanced stats both overall and relative to team mates and has consistently produced amongst the best defensive results on the team for forwards.

Italicized: Imagine knocking Matthews for the Leafs not winning a playoff series when in the same role Jack Eichel has not lead the Sabres anywhere other than the basement. Hockey is a team sport, not even McDavid and Draisaitl have taken their teams anywhere meaningful, yet neither get NEAR the same shit over it.

Underlined: Considering Eichel hasn't even seen a playoff game let alone an elimination game this argument is also trash.

Matthews isn’t bad defensively but you’re also over correcting here and making him sound like a selke level player. Prior to the last year he was below average defensively and this last year he was responsible defensively.

 

[Dache]

He had Ryan O'Rielly on his team...and he hated that Buffalo culture so much he found a way out and won a Conn Smythe + cup. Reinhart is not a good player ? Dahlin the apparent McDavid of D-men, Risto who is apparently a #1D ? Personality/attitude is a very real thing in sports, we've seen it countless times across every single league. The good thing is he's still so young, the right coaching can probably fix that.

FWIW the Leafs were absolute garbage when Matthews arrived.

Who reasonable has comparable Dahlin to McDavid anytime recently, or called Risto a 1D? Cause that game goes in circles too, remember when Kadri was a 1C, Zaitsev was the best FA acquisition and a 2D etc. Come on. You’ll never have a reasonable conversation that way

 

[Dache]

At least there is one rational person on here who see's the point I was trying to make.

At least you’re admitting you’re not rational. It’s a start. That poster also made a reasonable point in a reasonable way, didn’t over exaggerate the point and say that Marner or Nylander could have been removed from the team and make zero difference. Now if that poster flip flops the same argument in every thread then he’ll lose all credibility as well.

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

Honestly man, this type of stuff is where all the “leaf hate” comes from. Not one person said Matthews isn’t a great player and great goal scorer, not one player said he’s not much better than Marner or Nylander. All anyone has said is to not ignore the contributions that Matthews teammates have made compared to the ones that Eichels have made. Something many leaf fans do in any Bergeron/Pasta/Marchand thread. But the second that happens the handful of usual suspects start screaming bloody murder like this.

Well call me Keyser Soze then lol. I just don't think the QoT Matthews has put up points with so far outweighs the QoT Eichel has had. He only started playing with Marner last year. I also think Marchand, Bergeron, and Pastrnak would do well if separated.

 

[Dache]

Maybe Buffalo should try to finish higher in the overall standings besides 23rd which has been their best year with Eichel before you can think about them making the playoffs.

What kind of crap is this? For someone that can’t stand “bashing” posts this is just ridiculous. Also I’m still waiting for those posts where I disregard Matthews goal scoring and how Andersen is better than Hellebuyck. I answered all your questions and provided posts. As you say, If you don’t answer mine it’ll be obvious you’re avoiding it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Who reasonable has comparable Dahlin to McDavid anytime recently, or called Risto a 1D? Cause that game goes in circles too, remember when Kadri was a 1C, Zaitsev was the best FA acquisition and a 2D etc. Come on. You’ll never have a reasonable conversation that way

Before Matthews was drafted it could have been said Kadri was the Maple Leafs #1 Centre by default when you look at their roster when they finished last place overall in the 2015-16 Season.

As for Zaitsev if any Leafs fans said he was the best free agent signing they were wrong and chances are it was a small minority of Leafs fans who thought and not the majority of us.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Well call me Keyser Soze then lol. I just don't think the QoT Matthews has put up points with so far outweighs the QoT Eichel has had. He only started playing with Marner last year. I also think Marchand, Bergeron, and Pastrnak would do well if separated.

The QoT that Matthews has played with very clearly outweighs who Eichel has played with and thats not even debatable.

 

[Dache]

Well call me Keyser Soze then lol. I just don't think the QoT Matthews has put up points with so far outweighs the QoT Eichel has had. He only started playing with Marner last year. I also think Marchand, Bergeron, and Pastrnak would do well if separated.

QoT is a good argument as well, I wouldn’t just throw that to the side and ignore it. That’s what a site like this is for, having reasonable arguments and conversations. But you didn’t have that at all, as soon as any point was brought up for Eichel you start with the “Matthews sucks” nonsense as if everyone has to agree that Matthews is the best in every single way or were all haters.

 

[explore]

As a Sabres fan I could not care less whether Eichel is better than Matthews or not, I just want my team to make the playoffs for once.

I imagine the majority of Leafs fans couldn't care less if Matthews is better than Eichel or not, they'd probably much rather get past the first round of the playoffs

 

[Dache]

Before Matthews was drafted it could have been said Kadri was the Maple Leafs #1 Centre by default when you look at their roster when they finished last place overall in the 2015-16 Season.

As for Zaitsev if any Leafs fans said he was the best free agent signing they were wrong and chances are it was a small minority of Leafs fans who thought and not the majority of us.

You know I said a 1C and not the leafs 1C. Stop twisting things around, you know exactly what I was talking about. And yeah, it was a small minority of leaf fans talking about Zaitsev. That’s my point. That poster was talking about how people are calling Dahlin the McDavid of Dmen and Risto a 1D, that’s certainly by a small minority as well. Why does one get mentioned and one gets disregarded?

 

[Lainehasaweirdface]

The QoT that Matthews has played with very clearly outweighs who Eichel has played with and thats not even debatable.

Yeah I'm not debating it. I'm saying it wasn't that much of a glaring difference pre Marner to outweigh all the other things like being a year younger (for me that's in play for 2 more seasons when both guys are at least 25), the extra PP and average TOI that Eichel has gotten, etc.