Is it time to move Mike Green? (aka the equally confused thread) x2

[ryan519*]

So you think the key to this is comparing the possession number of the first line against the rest of the team? Do you watch the games?

The best way to play defense is to have the puck. Green pushes possession numbers in the Caps favor. he's not an inept defenseman.

Also, no caps defenseman over the last 4 years has allowed fewer shots against than Green:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...e&minutes=1500&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

under the right coach and system, he could regain his form and get his confidence back

 

[MrGone]

The best way to play defense is to have the puck. Green pushes possession numbers in the Caps favor. he's not an inept defenseman.

Also, no caps defenseman over the last 4 years has allowed fewer shots against than Green:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...e&minutes=1500&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

under the right coach and system, he could regain his form and get his confidence back

Well there is my answer. No you do not watch the games.

 

[g00n]

The best way to play defense is to have the puck. Green pushes possession numbers in the Caps favor. he's not an inept defenseman.

Also, no caps defenseman over the last 4 years has allowed fewer shots against than Green:

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...e&minutes=1500&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

under the right coach and system, he could regain his form and get his confidence back

He could, or he might become a $7M albatross. That's the whole question here.

Either way, the "Green drives possession because stats" thing has been addressed.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=85819289&postcount=798

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=85820595&postcount=799

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=85832945&postcount=809

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=85847753&postcount=814

 

[Halpysback*]

Unfortunately, Edler's off the market. Ehrhoff's probably the best bet now.

Markov with the AO connection.

I'd like them both honestly but Ehrhoff at 2 million screams bidding war

 

[ryan519*]

Well there is my answer. No you do not watch the games.

and you have yet to given me any supporting evidence as to why green is so terrible. im just trying to have a conversation and present my argument why i like green as a defenseman on this team. you just sit there and tell me that i dont watch any of the games, lol. get off your high horse man

now you'll probably throw me a few video clips, as if he's the only defenseman to make a boneheaded play or have a bad game. this guy was a 30 goal scorer for us before, i have no doubt he can get back to the 20 goal range with double that in assists, especially if hes put back on the point on the PP

 

[J Leads the Way]

Mike Green IS a terrible defenseman. He is a forward playing the defensive position, thats all he really is.

I could go through every game over the last 2 seasons and find you over 100 examples of just him turning the puck over. I could find you 100 more examples of him making boneheaded passes. I could find you 100 examples of him being a pansy and wincing in pain if somebody skates past him and blows in his ear.

Over the last few years I've had a holy trinity of players I could not stand on the Caps, and wished they would get rid of. I danced in the streets when Semin left, and hoped the same would follow for Mike Green and Alex Ovechkin. I know Ted will never ever trade Ovie, and that is a large part of why this team will never win a cup in the next 10 years. I'm clinging to a small glimmer of hope that they sour on Green and finally decide to move him.

 

[txpd]

Green is a forward playing defense is just funny. Only the occasional forward can carry Green's gear bag. Brooks Laich is a pretty good defenseman as a forward. He's not as good as Green as a defenseman.

If you don't like Green. That's fine. But this particular line if critic is not close.

 

[Bananas]

Mike Green IS a terrible defenseman. He is a forward playing the defensive position, thats all he really is.

I could go through every game over the last 2 seasons and find you over 100 examples of just him turning the puck over. I could find you 100 more examples of him making boneheaded passes. I could find you 100 examples of him being a pansy and wincing in pain if somebody skates past him and blows in his ear.

Over the last few years I've had a holy trinity of players I could not stand on the Caps, and wished they would get rid of. I danced in the streets when Semin left, and hoped the same would follow for Mike Green and Alex Ovechkin. I know Ted will never ever trade Ovie, and that is a large part of why this team will never win a cup in the next 10 years. I'm clinging to a small glimmer of hope that they sour on Green and finally decide to move him.

POTY?

Yes brother, yes. That's what I'm talking about. You might be wrong, but I like where your head is at.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Mike Green IS a terrible defenseman. He is a forward playing the defensive position, thats all he really is.

I could go through every game over the last 2 seasons and find you over 100 examples of just him turning the puck over. I could find you 100 more examples of him making boneheaded passes. I could find you 100 examples of him being a pansy and wincing in pain if somebody skates past him and blows in his ear.

Over the last few years I've had a holy trinity of players I could not stand on the Caps, and wished they would get rid of. I danced in the streets when Semin left, and hoped the same would follow for Mike Green and Alex Ovechkin. I know Ted will never ever trade Ovie, and that is a large part of why this team will never win a cup in the next 10 years. I'm clinging to a small glimmer of hope that they sour on Green and finally decide to move him.

Yeah, let's get rid of all our homegrown talent! Who needs fantastic skating ability, a shot that can score goals every time it leaves the stick, or creativity on the ice? They're not perfect so get rid of them -- we need moar Erskines, Laichs, and Brouwers!

 

[MrGone]

and you have yet to given me any supporting evidence as to why green is so terrible. im just trying to have a conversation and present my argument why i like green as a defenseman on this team. you just sit there and tell me that i dont watch any of the games, lol. get off your high horse man

now you'll probably throw me a few video clips, as if he's the only defenseman to make a boneheaded play or have a bad game. this guy was a 30 goal scorer for us before, i have no doubt he can get back to the 20 goal range with double that in assists, especially if hes put back on the point on the PP

There is no way we can have this conversation. You want to focus and base things off of a metric state that is based off of the starting five players on a bad team. And suggest the numbers are good because they lead the team. And then you bring up 30g like he is anything close to that player anymore.

Mike Green makes bad plays all the time. He is weak against the broads. And useless in front of the net. And that is not something you are going to see on a stat sheet or on Spots Center.

I have said this 100+ times over the past five years. On a team that plays four NHL quality defenceman. You can not have a 6mill #1 that is weak in his own end.

Ryan "But he just need the right partner"

Yes, he could be better with a solid partner. Its also been seven years. And at some point he should be carrying the load.

The team will take a step back the day move him. That is not in question, but the team will be better off as soon as someone fills that void.

 

[txpd]

he does carry the load. he carries the load he is supposed to carry. unless the coach is oates who doesn't want defenseman picking up that load.

green needs a solid partner because his game requires risks as a primary. you have to choose between whether you want him using his skating and explosion to skate the puck out of his own zone on the rush and press the carry deep in the offensive zone or be the responsible stay at home player that watches the back of a young partner.

he cant do both at the same time.

or....how many 26-30 minute defensemen are playing with a partner 120 games of NHL experience?

 

[g00n]

I mostly agree with txpd on a lot of the Green stuff he's posted recently, however....

Saying he's not a forward playing defense BUT that he also needs a solid partner to play his game is kind of having it both ways. It says he doesn't suck at defense and is a real defenseman, but he sucks at defense and needs someone else to be a real defenseman.

It's not just a question of him getting caught out of position due to risk in pinching and it's not irrational hatred. It's multiple questions about his health, mentality, price tag, fit in the system and DEfensive ability.

 

[txpd]

not at all. first of all creating offense from defense is a skill unto itself. a skill most forwards don't have. he is a defenseman. I doubt there are a dozen forwards in the nhl that could play defense in his own zone anywhere near as good as Green while very likely none of them could create any offense from defense in the process.

So, to say that he is a forward skating defense is totally inaccurate.

that he needs a steady partner is a separate issue. were he tom poti and his game tom poti's game, stay at home play defense with mobility and a good first pass out, he would not need a steady partner. poti was the steady partner.

if poti's game was to pressure the opposing defense and forecheck with an aggressive offensive attack from any of the three zones, that aggression requires solid back up.

It doesn't matter if the defensive playmaker is making offensive plays or stepping up to clean clocks with decisive hits, the playmaker needs a safety behind him because making the play often takes them out of position.

Do you want Green to be the safe guy which doesn't use his elite skills or do you want him to be an attack weapon?

I get the health and mental questions. I get the system fit question. Those questions are different from the two I have addressed. That he is a forward playing defense and that he needs a steady partner to fully play his game.

I'll ask again. Can you name a 25-30 minute defenseman that regularly played with a partner with barely over 80 nhl games of experience?

 

[J Leads the Way]

Yeah, let's get rid of all our homegrown talent! Who needs fantastic skating ability, a shot that can score goals every time it leaves the stick, or creativity on the ice? They're not perfect so get rid of them -- we need moar Erskines, Laichs, and Brouwers!

A shot that can score goals every time it leaves his stick? Are you high?

Ovechkin ANNUALLY leads the league in shots on goal. He shoots more than anyone in the league by a WIDE margin. I've long said that if you give a 4th line grinder as many shots as Ovie takes per year then he would score just as much as ovie does, maybe even more.

2013-2014 - led league with 386 shots, next highest was 313, #64 in S%
2012-2013 - led league with 220 shots, next highest was 190. #50 in S%
2011-2012 - #6 ranked with 303 shots, leader was Malkin with 339. #85 in S%
2010-2011 - led league with 367 shots, next highest was 347. #216 in S%
2009-2010 - led league with 368 shots, next highest was 347. #50 in S%
2008-2009 - led league with 528 shots, next highest was 372. #155 in S%
2007-2008 - led league with 446 shots, next highest was 358. #47 in S%
2006-2007 - led league with 392 shots, next highest was 351. #136 in S%
2005-2006 - led league with 425 shots, next highest was 368. #127 in S%

Since 1997-1998, the 400 shot mark has only been surpassed 4 times. Ovie has 3 of those 4 times. Suprisingly, Kariya was the other one in 1998-1999 with 429.


As you can see above, Ovechkin has only finished in the top 50 in S% once in his career, and that was a 47th overall finish, despite leading the league in shots every year but one. To say he scores "every time the puck leaves his stick" is quite untrue.



As for your "lets get rid of all our homegrown talent" remark........

I'm perfectly fine with other "homegrown talent" we have in Backstrom, Mojo, Carlzner, Holtby, and Wilson as a core group.


The problem with Ovie/Semin/Green is that they frankly are not team players. They all chase the personal glory/stats over the greater good of the team. If you told Ovechkin he would only be allowed to take 250 shots in a season, but in exchange for that change in shot totals his team would win the cup.....I think he would ask for a trade!


So many of you hockey "fans" in DC are blinded by his celebrity. Take a dive into his stats and you'll see he is quite an overrated player.





***** Edit to fix a few spelling errors.

 

[J Leads the Way]

Oh and I almost forgot......creativity on the ice?

Ovechkin has his 1 move that he does 98% of the time he carries the puck into the zone. People figured it out, and he became a rush-killing machine. What about the incredible powerplay numbers....must be from his creativity as well? That takes a pretty special level of creativity to sit in the left circle on the entire powerplay waiting for someone to serve you up a pass to bury in the open net.

What about Green? That creativity with his boneheaded passes? Or that creativity with his stick-handling ability right? There isnt a stat for most breakaways given up by a d-man, but if there was im sure Green would rank near the top. Same for mishandled pucks. He doesnt even have to lose it necessarily...but his trying to get fancy with the puck and screwing up and having to take a split second to corral the puck again is enough to miss a chance at a good play or ruin the timing of what is going on around him.

Semin was pretty creative in his monkey-slap fighting technique.....never saw that one before!

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

j leads the way, there's so much fail in your post I'll just leave it at this: if you'd rather have MaJo than Semin I have nothing to discuss with you.

 

[J Leads the Way]

j leads the way, there's so much fail in your post I'll just leave it at this: if you'd rather have MaJo than Semin I have nothing to discuss with you.

id much rather have mojo than Semin in his Capitals days. He seems to have gotten his head on a bit straighter since he got away from Ovie.....and that further proves my point. Ovie is killing this team, he is a coach-killer, and he is a Stanley Cup hope killer.


My post is laced with hard facts.....your "im just gonna take my ball and go home because ovie is the best and nobody with tell me otherwise" is laughable.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

id much rather have mojo than Semin in his Capitals days. He seems to have gotten his head on a bit straighter since he got away from Ovie.....and that further proves my point. Ovie is killing this team, he is a coach-killer, and he is a Stanley Cup hope killer.


My post is laced with hard facts.....your "im just gonna take my ball and go home because ovie is the best and nobody with tell me otherwise" is laughable.

Your post is "laced" with 1 statistic manipulated to fit your narrative. Here's a stat for you: 80 games, 23 ES pts, 2 ES goals playing 1st line minutes with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Want to have a guess whose numbers they were?

 

[J Leads the Way]

Your post is "laced" with 1 statistic manipulated to fit your narrative. Here's a stat for you: 80 games, 23 ES pts, 2 ES goals playing 1st line minutes with Ovechkin and Backstrom. Want to have a guess whose numbers they were?

how is it manipulated to fit my narrative? The cold hard facts pretty easily point out that despite being #1 in shots every season but one, he hasnt managed to be better than the 47th overall S% player in the game.

Give Mojo 400 shots and I promise you he will score just as much as ovie does. Give Tom Wilson 400 shots and I promise you the same. Hell, give Jay Beagle 400 shots and I would bet he gets close.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Give Mojo 400 shots

Over how many seasons are we talking?

 

[LifetimeUFA]

Over how many seasons are we talking?

I think Ovi will be retired by the time Mojo hits 400 shots

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

how is it manipulated to fit my narrative? The cold hard facts pretty easily point out that despite being #1 in shots every season but one, he hasnt managed to be better than the 47th overall S% player in the game.

Give Mojo 400 shots and I promise you he will score just as much as ovie does. Give Tom Wilson 400 shots and I promise you the same. Hell, give Jay Beagle 400 shots and I would bet he gets close.

Has MaJo had 400 shots in his career? It seems he's allergic to shooting.

 

[txpd]

Johansson has 339 in 263 games. playoffs 49 in 30 games

 

[J Leads the Way]

Over how many seasons are we talking?

well this is kinda my point. This guy wants to compare Ovie to Mojo, yet they are completely different players. BUT, say you gave mojo 400 shots in 1 season (will never happen, I know).....I'd bet he'd put up the same 79 points that ovie put up, if not better.


Mojo has 1 bad season, and he is ready to feed him to the wolves? I love Mojo as a player, and view him as a Backstrom-lite. we just need to get a coach in here who isnt obsessed with stick-handedness, or curves or whatever and who will focus on improving the actual players on the ice. I'm hoping Trotz is the guy, but I will always be concerned as long as guys like Ovie and Green are on the team.

 

[J Leads the Way]

Has MaJo had 400 shots in his career? It seems he's allergic to shooting.

the point im making is that IF Mojo took 400 shots the way ovie does, he would produce the same. I'm tired of people acting like Ovie is some god because he scores 50 goals.

Mojo career S% is 12.1, even after this stinker of a year and his 7.5% S%.

Ovie career S% is 12.3.