Is Elias Lindholm Overrated; Was Vancouver's Chemistry Interrupted?

[PavelBure10]

It looks like Lindholm should of accepted the huge longterm contract that the Flames supposedly offered him not too long a go. Lindholm may have screwed himself out of a lot of money because he certainly doesn't look like a 8 million dollar player anymore.

Hopefully Lindholm proves me wrong though, Canucks really need him to produce to make the playoffs.

 

[Bank Shot]

Lindholm isn't to blame for the Canucks coming back down to earth recently. Couldn't expect the team to have a shooting % of 15 all year long.

They just need to get back to Tocchet's super system of scoring at 20% on 5v5.

 

[Rowlet]

The whole team is struggling, Lindholm is doing what the team asks of him, take faceoffs and play defense.

There will be another big add, they'll get it worked out.

 

[stevo61]

If Vancouver wants to help drop his $ value so he can come join up with Johnny in the offseason that would be alright

 

[Tobias Kahun]

everyone: Vancouvers percentages are at historical highs, there is no way this lasts

/Vancouver finally starts losing games

"This is Elias Lindholms fault."

Is their coach not telling them to shoot at 20% anymore?

 

[sting101]

You can't judge trades right away like this. Moving to a new team, brings not only new teammates, but new coach, new style, new role/usage, and expecting every player to immediately gel have chemistry with new teammates right away shouldn't be expected. Lots of players struggle when they first go somewhere new.

Bo Horvat looked not great for NYI last season after the trade, and this season he looks good.

and the winner is....

exactly. give it 4-8 weeks its not like he has played seamlessly with Pettersson since he got here and the start of his tenure has been in a number of roles with a crazy schedule travelling time zones on long road trips with line mates he's never even talked to let alone be expected to know where they are gonna go and how they like to get open to shoot how they pass forecheck or defend.

As a C it's a tough position to create offense without knowing how to read off players. the Horvat example is a good one and even Horvat had a more defined role to start

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Sometimes shit doesn't make sense. The Rangers were 7-2-1 without Fox and when Fox came back their game took a nosedive. Although Fox wasn't 100% you would never expect that.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Lindholm definitely is underperforming relative to the value of the trade.

That said it's too early to jump to any conclusions of the player Lindholm is on the Canucks. The playoffs and off season will tell the full story.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

No, it just happened to coincide with a bad patch.

 

[Mickey Marner]

They basically just flipped Horvat for Lindholm with a few steps in between. Pretty lateral move.

 

[Rowlet]

They basically just flipped Horvat for Lindholm with a few steps in between. Pretty lateral move.

While getting a top pairing D out of it

edit: and moving up 20 spots in the draft

 

[Dack]

Exhibit A and B.

Matthew Tkachuk unlikely to meet expectations with Panthers

https://thehockeywriters.com/tkachuk-panthers-expectations-unlikely-to-meet/ How does he do in FLA? Does he flourish next to Barkov? Or can he carry his own line and play with Bennett on the second line? He's now one of the highest paid players in the league and with Huberdeau gone, he's got...

forums.hfboards.com

Confirmed Trade: - [FLA/CGY] Matthew Tkachuk, c. 2025 4th for Jonathan Huberdeau, MacKenzie Weegar, Cole Schwindt, c. 2025 1st

forums.hfboards.com

A healthy amount of CGY fans saying Tkachuk is a 70ish pt player away from Gaudreau and/or Lindholm.

I think Lindholm will find a groove and he's in a good spot being a 3C behind EP and Miller.
Not saying he's a bad player but he was severely overrated coming off those 2 good years IMO.
His play has nosedived since that 2021-22 season and Canucks should be cautious giving him anything over $7 to 7.5 million long term, especially given his point production will suffer and age is creeping up there.

I'm not going to read through those entire threads because they're way too long but the majority of Flames fans always had the opinion that

Gaudreau > Tkachuk > Lindholm

Gaudreau outproduced Tkachuk handedly in their time in Calgary and though Tkachuk was better defensively neither were so good or so bad for the huge production gap to be overlooked. Since then, Tkachuk has taken another step (though to be clear I do think playing in Florida boosts point totals a bit) and Gaudreau has regressed (and he's playing on an awful team).

If people were saying Lindholm was better than Tkachuk they were coping. Lindholm was always just the 3rd guy on the line, he was a RW for most of his career converted back to center because we needed a center and he meshed really well with them. He was good at forcing turnovers on the backcheck and has a good shot. Plus when you have two wingers that good you really don't need a center to be that much of a play driver (think Panarin-Anisimov-Kane). He's an alright player. I've always maintained that he's a 2C, maybe a 1B with the right linemates. He can't carry the puck, isn't overly creative offensively and isn't anything more than a trigger man on the powerplay. He just happened to be the best Calgary had and in fairness he was a huge upgrade over Monahan who was a similar archetype but with much worse defense.

Back to the present, the Flames offered Lindholm something between an 8x8 and an 8x9 and him rejecting it is the best thing to happen to us in a calender year. I wouldn't pay more than ~6 million for him and he's turning 30 this year. He'd be a good option for a contender in need of a defensive minded 2C with wingers who could do the heavy lifting offensively.

 

[HolyHagelin]

Wait, are you telling me that the Canucks are no longer on pace to have the best team sv% AND s% of all time and they are no longer winning like the 96 Bulls?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I'm not going to read through those entire threads because they're way too long but the majority of Flames fans always had the opinion that

Gaudreau > Tkachuk > Lindholm

Gaudreau outproduced Tkachuk handedly in their time in Calgary and though Tkachuk was better defensively neither were so good or so bad for the huge production gap to be overlooked. Since then, Tkachuk has taken another step (though to be clear I do think playing in Florida boosts point totals a bit) and Gaudreau has regressed (and he's playing on an awful team).

If people were saying Lindholm was better than Tkachuk they were coping. Lindholm was always just the 3rd guy on the line, he was a RW for most of his career converted back to center because we needed a center and he meshed really well with them. He was good at forcing turnovers on the backcheck and has a good shot. Plus when you have two wingers that good you really don't need a center to be that much of a play driver (think Panarin-Anisimov-Kane). He's an alright player. I've always maintained that he's a 2C, maybe a 1B with the right linemates. He can't carry the puck, isn't overly creative offensively and isn't anything more than a trigger man on the powerplay. He just happened to be the best Calgary had and in fairness he was a huge upgrade over Monahan who was a similar archetype but with much worse defense.

Back to the present, the Flames offered Lindholm something between an 8x8 and an 8x9 and him rejecting it is the best thing to happen to us in a calender year. I wouldn't pay more than ~6 million for him and he's turning 30 this year. He'd be a good option for a contender in need of a defensive minded 2C with wingers who could do the heavy lifting offensively.

Ya fair enough, not knocking Lindholm at all but they're were a fair amount of CGY fans that thought it was JG > EL > MT but that's maybe because MT came with the pest and nature to take too many PIMs.

He's toned that down now and the points keep coming now, seems to have matured but still has that pest ability to him.

Lindholm will regret not taking that CGY offer but maybe a Cup win will offset the financial loss?

 

[Three On Zero]

Lindholm was never seen as a really good player, how can he be overrated?

He was meant to come in as a #2/#3C that had some defensive upside. He looked good and then the Canucks started to get into injuries/slumping where Tocchet has thrown everyone in a blender. As long as his contract expectations aren’t ridiculous, he will be fine

 

[GoldenSeal]

Wait til after the playoffs start and ask me then.

 

[biturbo19]

I think Lindholm definitely got "overrated" by a lot of people during those years where he was in a perfect situation for himself, getting to play the quiet, savvy, positionally sound, two-way "facilitator" role with guys like Gaudreau/Tkachuk. That's always been what he is. He's not a real high end super creative offensive driver and catalyst. But he's really ideally suited to just play a role as the defensive conscience that lets more dynamic offensive creators take risks and play their games. He's alo got more than enough skill, smarts, and anticipation to jump in and out of the offense, keep plays moving, and pick up plenty of points while doing so.


Expecting more than that would've been a mistake and "overrating" him. But that's more or less what the Canucks needed. So i'm not too worried about that.


The bigger problem is just unfortunate timing where he's arrived during a stretch where the Canucks have hit a bit of a natural skid. They've got some key players slumping and playing some sloppy hockey too many nights. They've also got too many guys who on any given night, have seemed to stray too far from Tocchet's system. And to top it off...some of the depth scoring they were getting at a pretty bonkers rate has in fact...dried up, as depth scoring often does, running hot and cold by it's nature.

It's not really anything Lindholm did. Just unfortunate optics with the timing...and with the price paid, some people are expecting him to shoulder responsibility that never really should be expected of him. So he's having a little bit of trouble finding exactly where he fits on a new team where a lot of the other established guys are also having the same issues right now. I'm still pretty confident they'll get it figured out sooner or later.

 

[8To34]

He should be centering Joshua and Garland to be successful probably with Blueger sliding down. Its extremely rare to get a successful top line deadline rental unless its a complete lunchpail supporting type a la Barbashev. Only one I can think of in recent memory was Stone and Hossa way before that for the Pens. Looking at the most effective forward TDL acquistions going back-

Barbashev
Lehkonen
EStaal (as MTL 4C)
Coleman/Goodrow
Hagelin

theres a very clear type of forward/role that can be acquired at the deadline and have a playoff impact and Lindholm doesn't really fit the profile the way he is now. If I was Vancouver I'd have rolled the dice on guys like Greenway, Henrique, or try to get Coleman for the same type of package or a small plus on top

 

[Lawzy]

He should be centering Joshua and Garland to be successful probably with Blueger sliding down. Its extremely rare to get a successful top line deadline rental unless its a complete lunchpail supporting type a la Barbashev. Only one I can think of in recent memory was Stone and Hossa way before that for the Pens. Looking at the most effective forward TDL acquistions going back-

Barbashev
Lehkonen
EStaal (as MTL 4C)
Coleman/Goodrow
Hagelin

theres a very clear type of forward/role that can be acquired at the deadline and have a playoff impact and Lindholm doesn't really fit the profile the way he is now. If I was Vancouver I'd have rolled the dice on guys like Greenway, Henrique, or try to get Coleman for the same type of package or a small plus on top

If the argument is that Lindholm disrupted the Canucks chemistry (certainly not an argument I would make) this is the exact opposite of what he should be doing. That's the only line that has been consistently good all season.


The entire team is struggling, except Miller who is single-handedly keeping them in these games, and Lindholm is no exception. I don't know the baseline though; I simply haven't seen him enough. He was fairly good the first few games but has been quiet these last 6-7 games. That being said, he is still very clearly defensively responsible, good on PK, and excellent on the draw. Make no mistake, this team would be doing just as bad, if not worse, with Kuzmenko in this stead (I still love you Kuzmenko).

Mikheyev hasn't scored in months, Hughes is clearly tired, Pettersson is Jekyll and Hyde combined into one, and Joshua getting injured has mostly neutered the 3rd line. There are several issues and I wouldn't argue Lindholm is anywhere near the top of that list.

I haven't even mentioned the biggest issue: Soucy is injured. This team is completely different with Soucy. They're orders of magnitude less structured defensively when Soucy is out of the lineup. Part of that is his replacements, while good (shout out to Juulsen), are simply much worse players but another part is Soucy fits the system to a tee. He's Tanev in 2020 and, despite the plethora of super stars on the team, seems to bring way more to the table than his name would suggest.

 

[ViD]

I said that from the beginning, don’t touch Kuzmenko, he was the lucky charm

 

[winnipegger]

Calm down the canucks are just coming back to earth like everyone with 2 brain cells knew they would.

 

[tmurfin]

I doubt he’s the catalyst in the canucks losses, but it’s looking more and more like he’s just lost a step and it wasn’t just him wanting out in Calgary.

People can say what they want about him playing with Johnny and Tkachuk, but as someone who watched them every night, he was every bit as good as them more often than not. Dude was a pitbull on the puck.

The past 1.5 years he’s had zero jam in his game though, and I’m starting to think it’s going to stay that way.

 

[HockeyNightInAsia]

A lot of short-termism here, including these sour fans of 31 teams wishing the Nucks to fall.

Tocchet's been throwing things in a blender so that the team will be better prepared for the playoffs. Not because of disruptions from any one single player.

Judge Lindholm after the playoffs.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I wouldn't worry about wringing your hands over regular season results at this point. Canucks are locked into a playoff spot. Judge him based on your post season run.

 

[DJJones]

Guy gave up this year. Hard to just turn it back on.