Is Colorado really that far off from being Edmonton?

[S E P H]

Sure the Avs made the playoffs last year but many of us know that they got lucky and over achieved.

Are they similar to the Oilers? Yes and no.

Both teams are guilty of playing 18 year old players in the NHL and using it as a development league.

Both teams still have glaring holes on D that the GMs are not able to fill.

Both teams have clear and apparent system issues with inconsistent play.

Both organizations brought in former players to run the team. (Good luck firing Sakic or Roy if they don't perform).

The Avs are obviously a better team than the Oilers right now but if they don't make the right choices the team could turn in to a **** show in the future.

If the Avs miss the playoffs (they will), Sakic had better have a good off season plan.

Like a lot of your posts, the logic really isn't there.

Avs have been on every available defenseman this season. Even effin Brooks Orpik who wanted to stay in the East, Niskanen who overpriced himself out of Avs comfort range, Stralman who also wanted to stay in the East, Leddy, and Boychuk.

Also lol at Oilers defense better than the Avs, not one player I would want to touch on that team except Nurse in the system.

 

[chet1926]

No, we definitely can't agree. Johnson is clearly the best of the group, but I'll take our #2-8 dmen over their #2-8

Lol, I'd take Barrie over any dman on Edmonton. And Hejda is better than most of Edmonton's D.

Both teams defenses are poor but I'd take the Avs over Edmonton's any day.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.

The year before Bozak + 2nd was the most Toronto would ever pay for Stastny because he was hardly a 2nd line center.

Don't throw stones in glass houses.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.

Sounds like there's an agenda here.

 

[cgf]

yeah i take that back after taking a closer look.

i don't think there's much difference between hall/eberle/RNH/perron and duchene/landy/ROR/iginla and there's not much difference at the bottom of the roster.... but mackinnon is worlds better than yak at the moment, and JJ/barrie are a big step up from petry/schuktz too. and then varly is way better in net.

so yeah i take it back. the oilers would need big steps up from 2-3 of yak/drai/nurse/klefbom and a great goalie to match up with the avs.

man the oilers are bad. after all that tanking all they have is one good but not great line (hall/rnh/eberle) and a small handful of decent but not awesome lottery tickets (yak/drai/nurse/klefbom). and that's it.

and their solution is to keep firing coaches.

That's why I hate that Draisaitl ended up an oiler. The first german player with the talent to become a star in the NHL in ages and he ends up on the god damn oilers. Buffalo couldn't be surprisingly not clearly tanking last year to snag Leon and go full tank this year?

I actually have come to like quite a few pieces the oilers have that I feel bad for, but their management is just toxic. They've let the kids develop too many bad habits and have been far too in love with their kids to take the risks they've needed to. Why Eberle wasn't moved for a young RHD who can grow into a first pairing guy like Guds or Bogo seasons ago makes no sense to me. That should've been the trade they made the minute they drafted Yakubov. Then they've accumulated more guys who were willing to just float along with everyone else like Perron and Purcell instead of going after the kind of support staff who would teach the kids what they're lacking and force them to do the work to do so, like Vermette, why he didn't become an oiler the instant Phoenix started offering him to teams is befuddling. Add the coaching ****nuttery and the team is in a real dumb situation despite my really liking RNH, Draisaitl, Yakubov, Klefblom, Nurse, and Scrivens, and Hall being a genuine elite talent.

 

[Avs44]

No team in the league has had as much turnover as the Oilers since MacT took the job.

Hemsky-Gone, Horcoff-Gone, Belanger-Gone, Gagner-Gone, Dubnyk-Gone, Paajarvi-Gone, Smid-Gone, N.Schultz-Gone. Etc..

And yes we keep hearing that the Avs made a bold move by bringing in Vary and traded away a pick that is tearing up the NHL.

Varlamov who is currently at a .909 save% and also the worst even strength save % in the NHL.

He was great last year and was a huge reason the Avs made the playoffs. But as I predicted..that save % wasn't going to last.

His 2 previous seasons were at .903 and .913.

And LOL at the Avs having a scouting staff. They fired the guy responsible for drafting Barrie and ROR. The Avs prospect pool is considered one of the worst in the NHL.

Like I said, the Avs are a better team but that doesn't make them a good team.

Oh, congrats. You shuffled some deck chairs on the titanic. At least everyone gets a comfortable seat while the ship goes down. Goodness knows Lowe has been sitting comfortable for far too long. Do you have a #1 defender after all those changes? Even a good top pairing defender? No, but at least you have Jeff "better than EJ" Petry. A #1 goalie? No, but you have two career backups. What about that centre depth, how's that looking? Oh...


And that's the Seymon Varlamov who's been off and on injured all year. He was quite good when he was playing. But you'd actually have to watch the Avs to know that...but if you're happy with Scrivens and Fasth, great. Incidentally, I don't think Fasth is too happy.


The Avs fired Pracey because despite getting Barrie and ROR, he was doing a rather poor job with many picks. That's called accountability. How have the Oilers not yet cleaned house with their scouting staff? The Avs firing Pracey because he wasn't doing a good enough job, despite making some great picks, is yet another example of the difference between the Avs and the Oilers. The head of Oilers amateur scouting has been there since 2007? How? He's done an appalling job. Good luck up there in Edmonton. Nothing will change until your organization is cleaned, top to bottom. Thank goodness I don't have to put up with the rank incompetence Oilers fans do.

 

[Avs44]

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.

Prove it please? I would love to see which Avs fan said this.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

The year before Bozak + 2nd was the most Toronto would ever pay for Stastny because he was hardly a 2nd line center.

Don't throw stones in glass houses.

Stastny has 12 points in 22 games. Bozak has 25 pts in 30 games, and makes 2.8 million less per year. Bozak is also one of the best PKers in the Eastern Conference.

I honestly think Bozak and a 2nd is not horribly far off for Stastny. Paul is one of the most overpaid players in that 7 million range. He should be paid closer to 6.

 

[cgf]

Oh, congrats. You shuffled some deck chairs on the titanic. At least everyone gets a comfortable seat while the ship goes down. Goodness knows Lowe has been sitting comfortable for far too long. Do you have a #1 defender after all those changes? Even a good top pairing defender? No, but at least you have Jeff "better than EJ" Petry. A #1 goalie? No, but you have two career backups. What about that centre depth, how's that looking? Oh...


And that's the Seymon Varlamov who's been off and on injured all year. He was quite good when he was playing. But you'd actually have to watch the Avs to know that...but if you're happy with Scrivens and Fasth, great. Incidentally, I don't think Fasth is too happy.


The Avs fired Pracey because despite getting Barrie and ROR, he was doing a rather poor job with many picks. That's called accountability. How have the Oilers not yet cleaned house with their scouting staff? The Avs firing Pracey because he wasn't doing a good enough job, despite making some great picks, is yet another example of the difference between the Avs and the Oilers. The head of Oilers amateur scouting has been there since 2007? How? He's done an appalling job. Good luck up there in Edmonton. Nothing will change until your organization is cleaned, top to bottom. Thank goodness I don't have to put up with the rank incompetence Oilers fans do.

To be fair Scrivens could be a capable starter if he had a competent team in front of him. He's a lot better than that team lets him be and there's good reason for him being atop Allaire's list. And Fayne could be a fine partner for a very good #1 if they get one or Nurse grows into one quickly.

But you're not wrong about the rest of your post and the general point.

 

[Crisp Breakout]

Yes, they're very far off. It'll be pretty clear when the Avs make the playoffs this year. It looks impossible right now, but the team is finally coming together and just you wait. We've seen what happens when our top forwards start clicking.

 

[Davebo*]

I never understand why they are never held to the same standard of the Oilers. They are the Edmonton Oilers just in Denver.

Colorado is drafting smarter, acquiring veterans, hired a decent, innovative coach. They are nowhere near the level of that team in Edmonton.

 

[cgf]

Yes, they're very far off. It'll be pretty clear when the Avs make the playoffs this year. It looks impossible right now, but the team is finally coming together and just you wait. We've seen what happens when our top forwards start clicking.

We'll get Sekera for McGinn and a conditional first announced tonight and then its go time...

 

[dahrougem2]

Petry isn't soft. That's just flat out wrong. He's a solid #3 dman. Fayne, Klefa, and Marincin are all good dmen. Colorado has a top pairing, and then they're awful

No actually, it's not just flat out wrong, the guy is soft. I like Petry as a player, but for as big as he is, he's soft and doesn't play the body nearly as much as he should. And don't include Klefbom and Marincin otherwise I'll just say Bigras and Siemens. Klefbom and Marincin have proven nothing in the NHL. Colorado's defence, as bad as they are, is still better than the Oilers defence because Ference, Nikitin, Aulie, and Schultz all absolutely suck

 

[Burke the Legend]

Paul Stastney for Jarome was a pretty crap move.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Oh man, if you think Varlamov's save % is indicative of his play then you're wayyyy out to lunch. Your "prediction" has nothing to do with his play and everything to do with the team in front of him. Last year the forwards played defense, this year they don't.

...my point stands. There was no way he was going to repeat his performance while facing 2000+ shots a season. Very few goalies can repeat that kind of performance.

Like a lot of your posts, the logic really isn't there.

Avs have been on every available defenseman this season. Even effin Brooks Orpik who wanted to stay in the East, Niskanen who overpriced himself out of Avs comfort range, Stralman who also wanted to stay in the East, Leddy, and Boychuk.

Also lol at Oilers defense better than the Avs, not one player I would want to touch on that team except Nurse in the system.

When did I say the Oilers D was better??

And the cash spent on Iginla could have been spent on one of those players like Niskanen. And I can understand the Hawks not dealing leddy to the Avs but Sakic should have matched or beat that offer for Boychuk. Not only was Stuart a horrible pick up, but he was also extended. You can't really defend actions like that.

Oh, congrats. You shuffled some deck chairs on the titanic. At least everyone gets a comfortable seat while the ship goes down. Goodness knows Lowe has been sitting comfortable for far too long. Do you have a #1 defender after all those changes? Even a good top pairing defender? No, but at least you have Jeff "better than EJ" Petry. A #1 goalie? No, but you have two career backups. What about that centre depth, how's that looking? Oh...


And that's the Seymon Varlamov who's been off and on injured all year. He was quite good when he was playing. But you'd actually have to watch the Avs to know that...but if you're happy with Scrivens and Fasth, great. Incidentally, I don't think Fasth is too happy.


The Avs fired Pracey because despite getting Barrie and ROR, he was doing a rather poor job with many picks. That's called accountability. How have the Oilers not yet cleaned house with their scouting staff? The Avs firing Pracey because he wasn't doing a good enough job, despite making some great picks, is yet another example of the difference between the Avs and the Oilers. The head of Oilers amateur scouting has been there since 2007? How? He's done an appalling job. Good luck up there in Edmonton. Nothing will change until your organization is cleaned, top to bottom. Thank goodness I don't have to put up with the rank incompetence Oilers fans do.

And what do you call the mediocre job the Avs have done. One year of making the playoffs and all of the other mistakes and soon to be mistakes are forgiven?

And who said Petry is better than EJ..?

 

[cgf]

2 years of making the playoffs, not just one, with a third season of nearly making it in, in a rebuild that started with Stastny, Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart, Davey Jones and JM Liles as the only "good" pieces in the system. That's pretty sweet if you ask me.

And there's very few goalies who can do what Varly can do.

Niskanen wouldn't help us replace Stastny any more than Iginla is, Barrie wouldn't be producing as much as he is, and our offense would have dropped from 4th even further than to the 21st spot they're in now. And Stuart played very well before getting hurt. Not sure why you think adding another sound defensive defensemen who does a great job on the PK to a team who's top prospects on D are still a few seasons away is a bad idea.

Oh, and a lot of oilers fans said Petry was better than EJ. It was great, we all laughed and they kept yelling at their keyboards, trying to convince themselves that they actually thought it was true. Good times.

 

[Nihiliste]

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.

So this is all about someone hurting your feelings on the trade board last year? Good to know.

 

[Nihiliste]

Stastny has 12 points in 22 games. Bozak has 25 pts in 30 games, and makes 2.8 million less per year. Bozak is also one of the best PKers in the Eastern Conference.

I honestly think Bozak and a 2nd is not horribly far off for Stastny. Paul is one of the most overpaid players in that 7 million range. He should be paid closer to 6.

Those trade proposals really got you eh? See below:

Avs aren't even a bottom five team since they started rebuilding after 2008-09. Oilers are by far the worst team in the league in that period.

Average finish and number of playoffs the past six seasons.

Tampa: 20th, two playoffs.
Colorado: 20th, two playoffs.
Columbus: 21st, two playoffs.
Toronto: 22nd, one playoff.
Winnipeg: 23rd, no playoffs.
Florida: 24th, one playoff.
Islanders: 25th, one playoff.
Edmonton: 27th, no playoffs.

You can get off your high horse now.

 

[S E P H]

When did I say the Oilers D was better??

And the cash spent on Iginla could have been spent on one of those players like Niskanen. And I can understand the Hawks not dealing leddy to the Avs but Sakic should have matched or beat that offer for Boychuk. Not only was Stuart a horrible pick up, but he was also extended. You can't really defend actions like that.

You never said your Oilers defense is better, I was responding to that Ryan Smyth poster on the other page.

Avs were after Ehrhoff as well, but he wanted to stay in the East.

Not at all, would I ever save the money on Iginla for Niskanen, too much cap and years that he could never live up too. A reason why Avs didn't re-sign Paul Stastny, and even when he was here, Avs still finished 2nd at worst so he is not the long term answer for our club. Also Stuart is BY FAR, not even close of being a horrible pick up. Stuart has been one of the main reasons why Avs penalty kill was top 2 in the league when he was healthy.

Iginla and Briere have actually looked good this year, have done enough to make the Avs have a chance to win. It is the likes of MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, and O'Reilly that have been atrocious, and I don't think all four have played consistently like they did last year together. Only two to three of them have been good in one particular game, just cycling around.

Also Avs definitely should have done more to get Boychuk, but remember that he was an Avs player during his career where we had Sacco or Quenneville using him as a 4th line forward, lol. I don't know if he would have ever wanted to come back here.

Sakic and Roy though, planned all the offseason moves last year for July 1st, 2015 where there are much BETTER potential free agent defensemen than last year. Trading PAP for an upcoming UFA Briere was a sign that they're smarter than the average bear (which is named Aceonfire).

 

[JLo217]

No team in the league has had as much turnover as the Oilers since MacT took the job.

Hemsky-Gone, Horcoff-Gone, Belanger-Gone, Gagner-Gone, Dubnyk-Gone, Paajarvi-Gone, Smid-Gone, N.Schultz-Gone. Etc..

And yes we keep hearing that the Avs made a bold move by bringing in Vary and traded away a pick that is tearing up the NHL.

Varlamov who is currently at a .909 save% and also the worst even strength save % in the NHL.

He was great last year and was a huge reason the Avs made the playoffs. But as I predicted..that save % wasn't going to last.

His 2 previous seasons were at .903 and .913.

And LOL at the Avs having a scouting staff. They fired the guy responsible for drafting Barrie and ROR. The Avs prospect pool is considered one of the worst in the NHL.

Like I said, the Avs are a better team but that doesn't make them a good team.

More proof to one of my earlier posts. It's clear that you've watched almost no games Varlamov has played in. Congratulations on using google.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Was that the Forsberg pick? I forgot about. I remember when everyone thought the Caps got a steal in getting rid of Varlamov for that. In hindsight, still a fine deal even with Forsberg looking like a stud but I remember people thinking the Avs were stupid for giving up that much for Varly.

The entire hockey universe shat on Sherman. Both Sherman deals have turned out pretty good for everyone involved except the Caps who traded F.Forsberg for Martin no goals Erat

 

[The Kingslayer]

Paul Stastney for Jarome was a pretty crap move.

Wasnt aware Jerome played for STL last season. Good to know.

 

[Aceonfire*]

More proof to one of my earlier posts. It's clear that you've watched almost no games Varlamov has played in. Congratulations on using google.

More "watch the games nerd" comments?

It is amazing what you have access to as a Rogers customer...

You know, like gamecenter.

Despite what some Avs fans here believe other fans do watch Avs games. I like Duchene, great player.

Varly had a good stretch this year but no where near his performance last year. He is a great PK goalie though.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

If, big if here, the Oilers were to become successful hypothetically speaking I doubt any Hf members would acknowledge it, cuz you know Oilers and stuff. This is not saying that they will be successful.

As for Col v Edm it is a comparison that can be made but is far off in its base. Edmonton is a garbage fire caused by terrible management, poor coaching, league-worst drafting, little to no effort given by players, poorly built team, no accountability for players or staff, borderline #6 defenceman is their captain and etc. Most of these points do not apply to the avalanche. Sure they drafted high for 3/6 years, but at least their draft picks have done something, even if it was a fluke of a season. The two things that I think you could pin on both teams is their inconsistent play and their piss-poor defensive depth.

Awwww SUCH a victim...

PPL wouldn't acknowledge it, if they didn't, because it was done so poorly whic is justified not coz "oilers and stuff"

 

[The Kingslayer]

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.

Awe. Now I get it. Someone hurt your feelings