Is Colorado really that far off from being Edmonton?

[KaseMeOutside]

i would rather have colorados roster and prospects. they have some good long term pieces they just need to build a real defense

 

[Freudian]

The avs are 10-20 with a -20GD and tied with Edmonton for the lowest row in the NHL at 7.


The avs are awful this season.

Perfect example of deliberately picking stats to misrepresent how things are.

Avs are three games below .500 P%. Oilers are twelve games below .500 P%. ROW only matters as a tiebreaker after game 82. While Avs are having a disappointing start, it's miles from the start Oilers are having.

 

[Bednars Suit Game]

If you want to simply analyze draft positions, then sure, they've had similar finishes the past 6 years. However, the Avs have made the playoffs twice during that time. Something that can't simply be thrown under the rug.

Additionally, the Avs have gone out of their way to not only improve their roster but also their management and coaching group. While often criticized, Greg Sherman pulled off some ballsy trades that have landed the Avs a #1 Dmen and a starting goaltender capable of stealing games. They gave up significant assets to achieve this (Stewart, Shatty, 1st). Getting Tanguay back was a great move. The Brad Stuart trade was a tough one to swallow but again, you have to give something up in a trade, it was the pre-season extension that irritated us the most. The Oilers haven't made anywhere near enough roster/coaching/management changes.

Also, the Avs biggest issue is their awful defense and lack of depth players and assets. Our defense is actually better this year since we added Stuart and Redmond. However, the forwards (especially Stasnty, Orly, Landy, Malkin) busted their butts to clean up after the awful defense. They scored a lot last year and Varly played like a Hart Trophy candidate. This made up for the awful defense, in the regular season. That is not sustainable long term and the organization knows that.

This year we have been decimated by injuries and our top 6 are struggling collectively.

TL;DR: No, they are not in the same category. While the Avs are not a model franchise, they have taken far more steps to improve both their roster and hockey personnel.

 

[syz]

The main difference between the two is that Edmonton occasionally kicks the **** out of them when they play each other.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

That is just rude. I know Colorado has struggled this season, but as bad as Oilers? Thats just offensive.

 

[frivolousz21]

Perfect example of deliberately picking stats to misrepresent how things are.

Avs are three games below .500 P%. Oilers are twelve games below .500 P%. ROW only matters as a tiebreaker after game 82. While Avs are having a disappointing start, it's miles from the start Oilers are having.

Only comparing ROW to Edmonton.

the avs are one of the worst teams in the NHL this season.

 

[JLo217]

Only comparing ROW to Edmonton.

the avs are one of the worst teams in the NHL this season.

Thanks Bill Nye. This is something no Avalanche fan on HF knows. Truly insightful post.

 

[seancolorado]

I think the only basis on which a Edmonton-Colorado comparison can be made is that, much like Edmonton, Colorado has had multiple very high picks with which they could draft the defensemen they desperately need and instead keep chasing forwards. Compare with Tampa Bay picking up Hedman, Florida drafting Ekblad, Columbus picking Murray, and NYI wanting Murray but settling for Reinhart.

Not really. Colorado desperately needed a #1 center when they drafted Duchene and they got it. They desperately needed a winger when they drafted Landeskog.

It was only when they drafted MacKinnon that they chased the forward. But when you draft #1 you have to pick who you truly believe is the best player if you think you see a special talent. Time will tell if this was a mistake over Jones, but I'm not really sure this is a talking point either way.

 

[seancolorado]

Precisely. People love having something to hate and talk **** on, as well as being able to dub themselves experts and say "I told you so" and "I predicted that...".

Not so much bothered by people saying this. It's more like, saying it without really providing anything else.

It becomes glaringly obvious who watches the Avs and who doesn't when they pretty much regurgitate whatever the popular talking point is that is circulating around the media at any given month.

(That's kind of the thing about sports forums in general. In a thread about team x, there are always only two or three opposing fans who actually watch team x enough to contribute in any meaningful way, with the rest just chirping aimlessly)

 

[Craig MacAtaracts]

If you think Colorado isn't really that far off from being Edmonton, you really do not understand how bad things in Edmonton are right now?

Things will turn around eventually for Colorado, they have all the major pieces to build a good hockey team.

 

[Avelanche]

Avs like the Oilers? Lol. Avs will win a cup before the Blues ever make an appearance. Bookmark it.

 

[BB1133]

Not that close tbh. Avs have a lot more stability and much better core pieces to work with.

I think the problem for the Avs going forward is whether or not the management team can get their **** together and realize that old, slow, overpaid vets aren't going to bring this team to the promised land.

Hopefully this year was a big wake up call for them, but the jury is still out on that.

 

[frivolousz21]

Avs like the Oilers? Lol. Avs will win a cup before the Blues ever make an appearance. Bookmark it.

Guess blues fans will be waiting awhile for the AVS to make the playoffs again.

Gonna take atleast 2-3 years to get that defense in top 1/3 shape

 

[frivolousz21]

Not that close tbh. Avs have a lot more stability and much better core pieces to work with.

I think the problem for the Avs going forward is whether or not the management team can get their **** together and realize that old, slow, overpaid vets aren't going to bring this team to the promised land.

Hopefully this year was a big wake up call for them, but the jury is still out on that.

Hopefully. Guess they completely ignored advanced stats

 

[Brooklanders*]

Roy just isn't the right guy for the job.

 

[Viqsi]

Not really. Colorado desperately needed a #1 center when they drafted Duchene and they got it. They desperately needed a winger when they drafted Landeskog.

It was only when they drafted MacKinnon that they chased the forward. But when you draft #1 you have to pick who you truly believe is the best player if you think you see a special talent. Time will tell if this was a mistake over Jones, but I'm not really sure this is a talking point either way.

I'd argue for taking the blueliner first, given relative development times, but reasonable people can disagree on that one.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Avs like the Oilers? Lol. Avs will win a cup before the Blues ever make an appearance. Bookmark it.

Just came back to see where this thread went, and wha??? How did the Blues come into this discussion comparing the Oilers and Avs?

My opinion: The Oilers are a complete wreck. They have some talented players, but the synchrony for their development is out of whack to have a good team. They'll have to rearrange some of their "core" to bring in the pieces they need to complete a team. Until they finally realize that needs to be done, they'll be flawed on the ice and beatable. They have a long process to endure. No new coach right now is going to make much difference. I think they'd improve by trading any one piece of their core literally at random, regardless of the return. Those players need to realize that losing is not acceptable and that they can be gone. A string of fired coaches doesn't send that message.

Colorado has most of a good team in place. It hurt them to lose Stastny for no return, but it happens when you try to win in the post-season. They need a couple solid pieces on defense and they should be a playoff contender. Roy instilled some intensity when he took over, but I'm not certain he's going to be a good fit over the longer term. I won't be surprised if Colorado makes a couple moves on D in the next season or two and winds up firing him only to bring in the coach that takes them to the consistent contender level.

 

[NormMac]

Hopefully. Guess they completely ignored advanced stats

Its a good thing games aren't won based on advanced stats, their won on actual stats like goals.

 

[seancolorado]

I'd argue for taking the blueliner first, given relative development times, but reasonable people can disagree on that one.

Who would you have taken over Duchene? Tavares, Hedman and Duchene were the consensus top three and Colorado took Duchene when they picked third. Pretty much everybody would disagree with that one.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Their blueline is horrendous, it makes the Oilers one look half decent.

 

[Griffin6612]

Edmonton is in a league of their own.

And still manage to be in last place.

 

[Viqsi]

Who would you have taken over Duchene? Tavares, Hedman and Duchene were the consensus top three and Colorado took Duchene when they picked third. Pretty much everybody would disagree with that one.

I'd have taken Duchene and been frustrated that Hedman was already taken. OEL (at #6) would have been nice in hindsight, but I'm not sure if anyone had him rated that high.

 

[wunderpanda]

There are quite a few similarities. Former players running the team and office, lots of high draft picks in top 6, weak defense, questionable goaltending. I guess the main difference would be the Oilers revolving door of coaches the last 4 or 5 years. Roy had a good first season as coach last year, but Sacco made the playoffs his first year as well.

 

[falconski]

I have no idea where the questionable goaltending this is coming from, Berra doesn't exactly play anymore and when healthy Varlamov has been fine outside of maybe one game this season.

Unless Pickard's numbers are really being called into question...

this issue is the top 6 not producing this year

 

[benedictTavares]

Oilers need to clean house. Until they do its going to be a long road. Halls rumors do not help the situation.