Is Colorado really that far off from being Edmonton?

[JLo217]

Avs aren't anywhere close to the Oilers. They have a new management team still learning the ropes with a core of players all under 26 and all have a high compete level and desire to win. You can see the actual frustration. Oilers players (other than Fasth) look like they're going through the motions to get a paycheck.

 

[JLo217]

What do you mean? I am using 6 years as my sample size, which includes the drafting and development of most of the current core.

I understand they were great last year, but they are not good this year, and you have to wonder if last year really was a abnormality, akin to the Leafs somehow making the playoffs and taking the Bruins to 7 a few years ago, when they really didn't play very well.

When is the last time the Oilers made the Playoffs since drafting in the top 10?

 

[Alex Jones]

The biggest difference in my mind between the Avs and Oilers is that the Avs have taken major steps to address the holes in their lineup, while the Oilers haven't. The Avs gave a lot in order to acquire a number one defender and goaltender. The Oilers haven't been willing to either admit or even see the significant flaws in their roster.

That and they have a significantly more competent management and scouting teams.

 

[Muffin]

Sakic / Roy ?

Roy coached and was the GM of a junior team for many years. Sakic was mentores by Pierre Lacroix for years before he was given his title. They paid their dues unlike the Edmonton duo.

 

[Old Boys Club]

If, big if here, the Oilers were to become successful hypothetically speaking I doubt any Hf members would acknowledge it, cuz you know Oilers and stuff. This is not saying that they will be successful.

As for Col v Edm it is a comparison that can be made but is far off in its base. Edmonton is a garbage fire caused by terrible management, poor coaching, league-worst drafting, little to no effort given by players, poorly built team, no accountability for players or staff, borderline #6 defenceman is their captain and etc. Most of these points do not apply to the avalanche. Sure they drafted high for 3/6 years, but at least their draft picks have done something, even if it was a fluke of a season. The two things that I think you could pin on both teams is their inconsistent play and their piss-poor defensive depth.

 

[Muffin]

Varlamov carried the Avs to the playoffs last season, and how exactly did they get him? They traded a first round pick after a lottery year for him. Remember all the lol Avs just traded Yakupov post? The Avs have a goalie like Varlamov because they addressed a need by taking a risk, when was the last time Edmonton made a bold move like that?

 

[Aceonfire*]

Avs aren't anywhere close to the Oilers. They have a new management team still learning the ropes with a core of players all under 26 and all have a high compete level and desire to win. You can see the actual frustration. Oilers players (other than Fasth) look like they're going through the motions to get a paycheck.

“Some guys are more worried about their Vegas trip at the end of the season than playing the games, than playing every minute of the games. Quite frankly, I don’t care about your Vegas trip right now.”

Please don't act like the Avs are this blue collar hard working team. They get heavily out shot and rely on their goalie to bail them out.

 

[JLo217]

Please don't act like the Avs are this blue collar hard working team. They get heavily out shot and rely on their goalie to bail them out.

Do you know how many of those players are no longer on the team? I don't think you can name anyone specifically but the Avs are a MUCH different team the one they iced that season.

How many players have been removed from the Oilers since they've struggled?

 

[Avs44]

Please don't act like the Avs are this blue collar hard working team. They get heavily out shot and rely on their goalie to bail them out.

And after Giguere said that, the Avs fired their management, coach, and traded the culprits (guys like O'Brien). Do you know what happens to guys who speak out in Edmonton? They are the ones to get traded. Wake me when the Oilers fire their management, or when Craig "Bold moves" MacTavish actually does something bold, like the Avs did when they went out and addressed needs by trading a first for Varly(after just drafting 2nd overall) and acquiring EJ.


The biggest similarity between the Avs and Oilers is having high draft picks...but the Avs actually had a management group that wasn't afraid to make moves, they actually have a scouting staff, they actually made the playoffs(twice), they actually have a current management group that isn't a laughingstock, and you can call it a fluke all you want, but there's a division banner hanging in the rafters of the Pepsi centre that reads "division champs, 2013-14."


Good thing the Avs acquired a goalie to bail them out, not the spare parts that the Oilers continually rotate through their net because their managers are too incompetent and too afraid to make a trade like the Avs did to get Varly. Last I checked the goalie was as much a part of the team as any other player.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

if the Avs are such a great team, why are they such a terrible team?

 

[cgf]

literally the only appreciable difference is goaltending.

...that and the center depth...and that the oilers don't have a dman as good as EJ or Barrie...and the avs forwards are much better defensively when ROR and Landeskog aren't playing like ass...and competent coaching...a management that wasn't scared to take risks to address the needs...and mixing competitive seasons between the tanking years (2 playoff appearances and a near-miss)...but other than all of that it really is just the goaltending...

 

[Avs44]

literally the only appreciable difference is goaltending.

If you live under a rock then this is indeed the only appreciable difference.

 

[Freudian]

Please don't act like the Avs are this blue collar hard working team. They get heavily out shot and rely on their goalie to bail them out.

A two year old quote from a goalie that since retired about a team with a different coach perhaps isn't the most relevant about this years Avs.

Avs certainly has problems they need to address. They have a lack of puck skill which becomes a big problem when injuries hit. They have a couple of AHL caliber defenders they play too often and giving way too many minutes (Guenin, Holden). Their top six forwards needs to be better, especially Duchene and MacKinnon, for Avs to be a playoff team.

I think Avs will improve as the season goes. They've been better since they abandoned the man on man defensive system. Varlamov being out three separate times with nagging groin problems hasn't helped, but Pickard has been good in his place.

I think the Oilers will improve as the season goes too. Hard not too. They're shouldn't be the worst team in the league.

 

[MNRube]

The Avs are mirror images of the Oilers in some ways, but they are also set up better in every way.
=============================================================
Both teams have terrible bluelines and forward depth.

Both teams have a top 6 six filled with young, ascending talents.
=============================================================

Thats about it. After that the Avs are better

Barrie and EJ are better than anyone in Edmonton has on D

Duchene, Mac, Landeskog way better than Hall, RNH, Eberle now and longterm IMO

Roy better than MacTavish

Varlamov is light years past anything Edmonton could put in the net.

Basically unless Yakupov and Draisatl break out, the Oilers are worse than the Avs is every way.

 

[cgf]

And after Giguere said that, the Avs fired their management, coach, and traded the culprits (guys like O'Brien). Do you know what happens to guys who speak out in Edmonton? They are the ones to get traded. Wake me when the Oilers fire their management, or when Craig "Bold moves" MacTavish actually does something bold, like the Avs did when they went out and addressed needs by trading a first for Varly(after just drafting 2nd overall) and acquiring EJ.


The biggest similarity between the Avs and Oilers is having high draft picks...but the Avs actually had a management group that wasn't afraid to make moves, they actually have a scouting staff, they actually made the playoffs(twice), they actually have a current management group that isn't a laughingstock, and you can call it a fluke all you want, but there's a division banner hanging in the rafters of the Pepsi centre that reads "division champs, 2013-14."


Good thing the Avs acquired a goalie to bail them out, not the spare parts that the Oilers continually rotate through their net because their managers are too incompetent and too afraid to make a trade like the Avs did to get Varly. Last I checked the goalie was as much a part of the team as any other player.

You said it better than I was going to. After that outburst the avs made big changes with the people running the team (though I do feel bad for Greg from Accounting, as his name was on a lot of risky moves that paid off and I don't think he had the power to replace Sacco), and the primary offenders (SOB and Davey Jones).

 

[cgf]

if the Avs are such a great team, why are they such a terrible team?

Because it's an odd year season with an elite talent for them to tank for at the last moment?...*shrug*

After winning the Central with MacKinnon, imagine what we'll win with McJesus?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Every team goes through growing pains, the Avs is just worse than expected this year.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of players didn't take their offseasons seriously. Varlamov re-injured his groin (something he previously was said to have done specific exercising on to strengthen going forward), MacKinnon wasn't ready to handle the load offensively (not that some of us didn't see that coming), Landy/ROR aren't contributing the high end offense they did last year and in ROR's case (difficult as it is to say) looks like conditioning (his skating has noticeably regressed). Stuart's been injured (which he's sadly much better than our current bottom pairing guys).

Meanwhile McGinn and Mitchell have been injured most of the season, both are significant depth pieces. As is Winchester whom hasn't played for us yet. We lost PAP and in turn Briere had to step up, which he sort of did but more than should be expected. Stastny's loss hurt. Then management thought guys like Holden, Guenin and McLeod were worth retaining long term due to the unexpected results of last year even though they're barely NHLers.

Combine that with only 3 players contributing at or above their expectations and all of them being defenders (EJ, Barrie, Redmond), it really hurts the team's success.

I'd rather they struggle now and learn from it, they need to see they're not contenders yet. Last year when to their heads a lot, Roy's too. Funny thing is they changed their defensive coverage and play style in a way that improved their advanced stats in terms of Corsi, but they're still not winning. Just goes to show the advanced stats gurus don't know everything. This year the problem is they aren't possessing and distributing the puck as successfully as last year. Last year they scored on the rush with a lot more ease too, the Wild seemed to have solved that and a lot of teams took notice accordingly.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Do you know how many of those players are no longer on the team? I don't think you can name anyone specifically but the Avs are a MUCH different team the one they iced that season.

How many players have been removed from the Oilers since they've struggled?

And after Giguere said that, the Avs fired their management, coach, and traded the culprits (guys like O'Brien). Do you know what happens to guys who speak out in Edmonton? They are the ones to get traded. Wake me when the Oilers fire their management, or when Craig "Bold moves" MacTavish actually does something bold, like the Avs did when they went out and addressed needs by trading a first for Varly(after just drafting 2nd overall) and acquiring EJ.


The biggest similarity between the Avs and Oilers is having high draft picks...but the Avs actually had a management group that wasn't afraid to make moves, they actually have a scouting staff, they actually made the playoffs(twice), they actually have a current management group that isn't a laughingstock, and you can call it a fluke all you want, but there's a division banner hanging in the rafters of the Pepsi centre that reads "division champs, 2013-14."


Good thing the Avs acquired a goalie to bail them out, not the spare parts that the Oilers continually rotate through their net because their managers are too incompetent and too afraid to make a trade like the Avs did to get Varly. Last I checked the goalie was as much a part of the team as any other player.

No team in the league has had as much turnover as the Oilers since MacT took the job.

Hemsky-Gone, Horcoff-Gone, Belanger-Gone, Gagner-Gone, Dubnyk-Gone, Paajarvi-Gone, Smid-Gone, N.Schultz-Gone. Etc..

And yes we keep hearing that the Avs made a bold move by bringing in Vary and traded away a pick that is tearing up the NHL.

Varlamov who is currently at a .909 save% and also the worst even strength save % in the NHL.

He was great last year and was a huge reason the Avs made the playoffs. But as I predicted..that save % wasn't going to last.

His 2 previous seasons were at .903 and .913.

And LOL at the Avs having a scouting staff. They fired the guy responsible for drafting Barrie and ROR. The Avs prospect pool is considered one of the worst in the NHL.

Like I said, the Avs are a better team but that doesn't make them a good team.

 

[irunthepeg]

Varlamov carried the Avs to the playoffs last season, and how exactly did they get him? They traded a first round pick after a lottery year for him. Remember all the lol Avs just traded Yakupov post? The Avs have a goalie like Varlamov because they addressed a need by taking a risk, when was the last time Edmonton made a bold move like that?

Was that the Forsberg pick? I forgot about. I remember when everyone thought the Caps got a steal in getting rid of Varlamov for that. In hindsight, still a fine deal even with Forsberg looking like a stud but I remember people thinking the Avs were stupid for giving up that much for Varly.

 

[613Leafer]

I never understand why they are never held to the same standard of the Oilers. They are the Edmonton Oilers just in Denver.

Last six years.

Team A: ZERO playoff appearances, three bottom 2 finishes, four bottom 3 finishes, and SIX bottom 10 finishes.

Team B: Two playoff appearances, two bottom 3 finishes, three bottom 3 finishes, and three bottom 10 finishes.

Not to mention Team A's best finish was in the small sample size 48 game season, and Team B's worst season was in the small sample size 48 game season.

Yep, they're pretty much the exact same..

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

And yes we keep hearing that the Avs made a bold move by bringing in Vary and traded away a pick that is tearing up the NHL.

Varlamov who is currently at a .909 save% and also the worst even strength save % in the NHL.

He was great last year and was a huge reason the Avs made the playoffs. But as I predicted..that save % wasn't going to last.

Oh man, if you think Varlamov's save % is indicative of his play then you're wayyyy out to lunch. Your "prediction" has nothing to do with his play and everything to do with the team in front of him. Last year the forwards played defense, this year they don't.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Here I thought they would make the playoffs with Varlamov, RoR, and EJ alone with how highly praised these guys are

 

[cgf]

Here I thought they would make the playoffs with Varlamov, RoR, and EJ alone with how highly praised these guys are

Well the avs haven't had varlamov for much of the season and ROR is playing the worst hockey of his career. EJ's trying to make it happen though, he's been playing amazing this season outside of a handful of games after that unfortunate headshot he took from hanzal.

 

[zeke]

...that and the center depth...and that the oilers don't have a dman as good as EJ or Barrie...and the avs forwards are much better defensively when ROR and Landeskog aren't playing like ass...and competent coaching...a management that wasn't scared to take risks to address the needs...and mixing competitive seasons between the tanking years (2 playoff appearances and a near-miss)...but other than all of that it really is just the goaltending...

yeah i take that back after taking a closer look.

i don't think there's much difference between hall/eberle/RNH/perron and duchene/landy/ROR/iginla and there's not much difference at the bottom of the roster.... but mackinnon is worlds better than yak at the moment, and JJ/barrie are a big step up from petry/schuktz too. and then varly is way better in net.

so yeah i take it back. the oilers would need big steps up from 2-3 of yak/drai/nurse/klefbom and a great goalie to match up with the avs.

man the oilers are bad. after all that tanking all they have is one good but not great line (hall/rnh/eberle) and a small handful of decent but not awesome lottery tickets (yak/drai/nurse/klefbom). and that's it.

and their solution is to keep firing coaches.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

Here I thought they would make the playoffs with Varlamov, RoR, and EJ alone with how highly praised these guys are

Last year I was told that Kadri+Rielly probably doesn't even get considered in a deal for RoR.

This year, RoR has 16pts in 30 games with an AAV of 6 million. His linemates are Nathan Mackinnon and Gabriel Landeskog.

Kadri has 19 pts in 30 games. His AAV is projected to be around 5 million next season. His linemates are Mike Santarelli and Daniel Winnik.

I was hounded in trade threads by Avalanche fans for suggesting that Kadri alone is pretty close to RoR and that adding Rielly was absurd.