Improvements to North Station and TD Garden taking shape

[Gee Wally]

Well, I admit that I’ve digressed. That being said, I do think my point is very relevant considering Jeremy Jacobs was somehow convincing (or at least attempting to) convince the public that he wanted to lower ticket prices (making himself the hero/good guy of the situation) based on paying the next people down the ladder too much.

And I would be lying if I pretended to be surprised some of the older posters on the board choose to ignore current economic trends in lieu of the old American pastime of *****ing about government and taxes.

And remember, I lose money out of my paycheck just like the rest of you...I just think there are plenty of other places we get ****ed by the private sector through rhetoric such as that Jacobs displayed...and yes....that includes within current sports franchises.

You are choosing to get f***ed then. Absolutely 100% of your free will saying JJ do me.

Then asking , JJ why do you do me so?
Thats not being a victim.

 

[jgatie]

I could go on all day about why I think you’re wrong, but my posts would quickly be deleted and I’d be infracted for getting political, which is against site rules. So I’ll end it here because I know we are not going to come to agreement.

The Amtrak example alone sets off 1,000 rebuttals in my own mind...

Feel free to take it offline. However, Supply and Demand is a Law for a reason.

 

[member 96824]

I would recommend a couple people google “price elasticity”

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

You are choosing to get ****ed then. Absolutely 100% of your free will saying JJ do me.

Then asking , JJ why do you do me so?
Thats not being a victim.

Feel free to take it offline. However, Supply and Demand is a Law for a reason.

The original post was a criticism of the modern day rich businessman (JJ) using his public reach/power to convince the public that he’s on their side and is somehow obligated to charge high prices due to those working below him. And expanding on this to say that those in these positions like JJ have overwhelming power to influence the public when much of the population is only interested in criticizing one power sect which resides in public government. Due to the obligation to pay taxes.

Was my post better intended for the politics section of the board? Yes, and I fully admit that.

Charging people a certain amount of money to pay for a ticket doesn’t make anyone a victim. Never once did I argue that.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Feel free to take it offline. However, Supply and Demand is a Law for a reason.

It’s pretty lazy conversation to throw me into the “prices are too high” group. I agree completely. It’s supply/demand. That’s how it works. Business is going to charge as much as they can as long as it maintains equilibrium with demand.

Original post was about people such as JJ (based on the post I was responding to) using his power to influence public opinion and convince people that tickets prices were too high because the workers below him were greedy.

Lo and behold, salaries were cut massively but ticket prices weren’t. Not arguing about my opinion on whether prices are too high or not (having an opinion on such a thing on its own makes no sense in a capitalist society), just saying JJ used a pretty classic tactic with his commentary on the lockout in 2004.

 

[Dr Hook]

The original post was a criticism of the modern day rich businessman (JJ) using his public reach/power to convince the public that he’s on their side and is somehow obligated to charge high prices due to those working below him.

Yep but as Wally pointed out, people choose to buy his BS, right? Pretty much every company does this with their stupid "mission statements" and "we care about this and that." They'll tell you they care about everything but what they actually care about: making a profit, and the bigger the better. That is the capitalist system. It is what it is, and this is not a shot at it. But where companies line up on social issues or environmental issues or what have you (JJ feeling your pain as a STH LOL) are directly related to how they believe it will affect their bottom line. JJ dropped the soap in the shower-it's your choice whether you pick it up or not. I guess you can blame him for dropping the soap in the first place, but he is just being true to type- it's like blaming a rabbit for breeding too much.

 

[jgatie]

It’s pretty lazy conversation to throw me into the “prices are too high” group. I agree completely. It’s supply/demand. That’s how it works. Business is going to charge as much as they can as long as it maintains equilibrium with demand.

Original post was about people such as JJ (based on the post I was responding to) using his power to influence public opinion and convince people that tickets prices were too high because the workers below him were greedy.

Lo and behold, salaries were cut massively but ticket prices weren’t. Not arguing about my opinion on whether prices are too high or not (having an opinion on such a thing on its own makes no sense in a capitalist society), just saying JJ used a pretty classic tactic with his commentary on the lockout in 2004.

My only comment originally was on your intimation that a willfully entered contract between a buyer and seller in which both parties receive what they consider just compensation for their wares or the transaction doesn't take place, is worse than a no choices given government enforced taxation, where no one is guaranteed just compensation, and the penalty for not doing so is arrest, prosecution, and jail.

I stand by my comments.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Red Wings still sell out every game, Tampa sells out, plenty of demand there, why does JJ have the third highest priced average tickets in the US? Why has Boston always been one of the most expensive tickets in the United States? $222.00 average ticket price.

Vegas, Nashville, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Tampa, all sold out every game this year, all played to over 100% capacity with SRO tickets, supply and demand there but lower ticket prices. Chicago had the highest attendance and their tickets are more expensive but otherwise until you get to Carolina, Florida, Arizona and the nomadic Islanders every US based team played to over 82 percent capacity and more than 14,500 fans a night, even NJ. 23 play in newer arenas.

Jacobs is cheap, he always has been and always will be, he will squeeze every nickel he can out of every fan, whether by a new means of saving money on printing tickets or charging more for parking, tickets, concessions, whatever.

They spend to the cap most of the time is the only positive change over the years, the decades of being the Montreal Expos of hockey have stopped, but only because people stopped going.

I don't know where you're getting the $222 number. I looked it up- a couple of weeks ago, and got a $152 number. And that's the face value. STH discounts reduce the actual amount brought in even further.

Why has Boston had such a high ticket price lately? Well, like Wally said, supply and demand. Relatively limited supply, and with the success of the team for the past decade, demand is high. Like someone else said, Jacobs is in the business to make money, so he'll try to push the price point as far as he can without significantly affecting the demand curve. I would bet the other teams you mentioned COULD increase prices and still sell out. But I would bet they might not be able to increase them as much as the Bruins. The demand curve is different from city to city, and other teams might not be as aggressive as the Bruins in pushing that envelope. They might also not have as much room under the demand curve before that inflection point of increasing price affecting demand. (Holy crap, I actually remembered something useable from my econ class!)

 

[TD Charlie]

I would recommend a couple people google “price elasticity”

Having 15 year flashbacks to college Econ courses and now i am in a terrible mood.

 

[Fenian24]

I don't know where you're getting the $222 number. I looked it up- a couple of weeks ago, and got a $152 number. And that's the face value. STH discounts reduce the actual amount brought in even further.

Why has Boston had such a high ticket price lately? Well, like Wally said, supply and demand. Relatively limited supply, and with the success of the team for the past decade, demand is high. Like someone else said, Jacobs is in the business to make money, so he'll try to push the price point as far as he can without significantly affecting the demand curve. I would bet the other teams you mentioned COULD increase prices and still sell out. But I would bet they might not be able to increase them as much as the Bruins. The demand curve is different from city to city, and other teams might not be as aggressive as the Bruins in pushing that envelope. They might also not have as much room under the demand curve before that inflection point of increasing price affecting demand. (Holy crap, I actually remembered something useable from my econ class!)

Pulled it from Forbes.

1) Toronto Maple Leafs - Avg Price: $368.60

 

[Therick67]

37.26% increase? Imagine if they won the cup?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Pulled it from Forbes.

1) Toronto Maple Leafs - Avg Price: $368.60

What was their methodology for calculating these averages? Those numbers seem specious at best. Especially considering that a) this article quotes 2013 prices, b) there's not a chance in hell Bruins tickets were that expensive in 2013, and c) an increase in face value of almost 38% would have caused an uproar. This leads me to believe that Forbes' numbers are including reseller prices, or something other than face value.

If this is indeed their methodology - using secondary market prices - then that just bolsters the idea that there is still significant demand for bruins tickets despite higher prices - even higher prices than Box Office prices.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

What was their methodology for calculating these averages? Those numbers seem specious at best. Especially considering that a) this article quotes 2013 prices, b) there's not a chance in hell Bruins tickets were that expensive in 2013, and c) an increase in face value of almost 38% would have caused an uproar. This leads me to believe that Forbes' numbers are including reseller prices, or something other than face value.

If this is indeed their methodology - using secondary market prices - then that just bolsters the idea that there is still significant demand for bruins tickets despite higher prices - even higher prices than Box Office prices.

Fans in New England, especially fairweather types, are likely to be well educated and well compensated. Enough someone's will buy those tickets no matter the price.

They are ridiculous, yet I know I'll still pay them as well.

At least there are alleged upgrades... although smaller seats is not one.

 

[talkinaway]

I don't know where you're getting the $222 number. I looked it up- a couple of weeks ago, and got a $152 number. And that's the face value. STH discounts reduce the actual amount brought in even further.

Why has Boston had such a high ticket price lately? Well, like Wally said, supply and demand. Relatively limited supply, and with the success of the team for the past decade, demand is high. Like someone else said, Jacobs is in the business to make money, so he'll try to push the price point as far as he can without significantly affecting the demand curve. I would bet the other teams you mentioned COULD increase prices and still sell out. But I would bet they might not be able to increase them as much as the Bruins. The demand curve is different from city to city, and other teams might not be as aggressive as the Bruins in pushing that envelope. They might also not have as much room under the demand curve before that inflection point of increasing price affecting demand. (Holy crap, I actually remembered something useable from my econ class!)

The other problem is that you can't really compare Detroit to Boston economically. Off the top of my head, Boston's probably most comparable to NYC, Toronto, LA, and San Jose in terms of having raw numbers of people nearby who can afford to go to games regularly - Detroit, not so much because of local economy, and, for example, Nashville possibly not so much due to both a smaller population base and a lack of interest. As much as we might like to think we're a city full of Matt Damons in Good Will Hunting, we've probably got a lot of Minnie Drivers. That's going to drive ticket prices up.

We've basically got the perfect storm: a large population, a relatively wealthy segment of said population, a population that's more interested in hockey than the average population, and a team that (right now) doesn't suck. Jacobs is going to take advantage of that. I'm not going to say I hate the man just for that, but I'm not going to nominate him for Philanthropist of the Year, either, especially considering that two years ago some high school kids discovered that Jacobs (accidentally or not) skipped out on about 60 fundraisers that were supposed to be thrown in exchange for state approval of the Garden. Speaking of which - uh, have there been any?

 

[Fenway]

 

[Fenway]

The other problem is that you can't really compare Detroit to Boston economically. Off the top of my head, Boston's probably most comparable to NYC, Toronto, LA, and San Jose in terms of having raw numbers of people nearby who can afford to go to games regularly - Detroit, not so much because of local economy, and, for example, Nashville possibly not so much due to both a smaller population base and a lack of interest. As much as we might like to think we're a city full of Matt Damons in Good Will Hunting, we've probably got a lot of Minnie Drivers. That's going to drive ticket prices up.

We've basically got the perfect storm: a large population, a relatively wealthy segment of said population, a population that's more interested in hockey than the average population, and a team that (right now) doesn't suck. Jacobs is going to take advantage of that. I'm not going to say I hate the man just for that, but I'm not going to nominate him for Philanthropist of the Year, either, especially considering that two years ago some high school kids discovered that Jacobs (accidentally or not) skipped out on about 60 fundraisers that were supposed to be thrown in exchange for state approval of the Garden. Speaking of which - uh, have there been any?

Because I travel I have a pretty good feel for NHL markets.

New York and Toronto are corporate crowds and to a lesser extent Montreal and Vancouver.

Chicago was dead in the water 15 years ago - I went to a game at the UC on New Year's Eve in 2003 where at best there were 6,000 people in the building.

Even the hardcore Chicago fans were not going to give Bill Wirtz another dime. When he died in 2007 the home opener was just ugly during a memorial tribute to him.



Boston and Philadelphia are VERY similar markets and both cities are booming right now.

 

[Fenway]

I wonder if this is going to affect the building being ready

 

[Ratty]

I wonder if this is going to affect the building being ready

View attachment 247085

Looks like they’ll have to lug those I beams up 30 stories by hand!

 

[Therick67]

JJ must have gone for the low bid contractors....

 

[Fenway]

JJ must have gone for the low bid contractors....

I can see the cranes from my home office

 

[Fenway]

Bruins Move Visiting Bench Tunnel - The Faceoff

The TD Garden in Boston is undergoing a massive, multi-summer renovation. This summer, the building is closed for 10 weeks to replace the seats, add penthouse premium level seating, replace the scoreboard, and a number of other arena upgrades.

What hasn't been discussed, but has been confirmed by the team's official seat locator as well as Ticketmaster's, is that the visiting team will no loner be able to access their locker room from the bench. That tunnel is being removed and a new one is being opened up for the away team near the corner of the rink.

While nothing has been officially stated as the reason for this move, it would appear that the Bruins have expanded their locker room this summer, or in recent years, creating a longer walk to the locker room for the visiting team. Their locker room is most likely now closer to that corner of the rink.

 

[talkinaway]

I noticed that in the new layout, too. It takes away one of my gripes about the Habs; I always thought it was lame that the Centre Bell forced visitors to cross the ice to access the locker room. I don't know what the stats are throughout the NHL, but there can't be too many arenas that do that, right? Now we're on that list of teams, too. Meh.

If I'm not mistaken, it actually gives the home team an advantage. If you get bloodied up (literally or metaphorically), you can go for a line change, dash down the hall to the locker room to get patched up, and return to the bench whenever you're ready - no waiting for a whistle. The visiting team has to have the player wait on the bench for a whistle, then leave the bench to get repaired, and then can't come back into play until the next whistle. (Is this accurate? It's what I've always assumed when watching the Habs games - Jack or Doc may have alluded to it.)

I can't say I like it from a fairness perspective, but...I suppose the lockers need renovating? I dunno. From a business perspective, it makes sense - those extra seats behind the bench where the tunnel used to bre are going to bring in money, even if you only see the coaches rear end most of the time. And that's the reason for the expansion - and also why they're kicking the cameras off of their former prime position.

 

[BMC]

Never mind all this other crap- what are they doing about the ice? Or do they have to save that for last?

 

[wintersej]

So did the scoreboard and ice plant not make it this season?

 

[talkinaway]

So did the scoreboard and ice plant not make it this season?

Nope, they didn't fix either of those for the start of last season, despite the fact that both changes were sorely needed. The scoreboard was literally torn down at the end of last season - saw the skeleton of the scoreboard with my own two eyes. So, there's basically no way that's not going to be switched out...I imagine it'll be better, but who knows if they'll get it right.

And I'm pretty sure Fenway has said they're fixing the ice plant for next season as well - again, just hope they get it right. Given that they made a poor decision (from what I hear) in switching out the Zamboni for an "Olympia Ice Resurfacer" (I'm just a...hockey rink man?), I'm a little skeptical.





Admittedly, they do try to mitigate the poor ice conditions - for the playoffs they had a giant duct-thing peeking out from the zambo^d^d^d^d^d ice resurfacer doors that I imagine was to help out with the humidity. Coincidentally, that's the exact area of the ice where Carlo took a fall at the end of the season two years ago.