If Marc Bergevin is fired, who do you want for next Habs GM ?

[Vachon23]

If Doug Wilson is fired in SJ would you consider him ?

 

[SOLR]

You're calling Winnipeg and Edmonton contenders? Or even emerging contenders? Really?

And lets be clear, I'm arguing that it matters who the GM is and its not as simple as just tanking for elite players. You're the one arguing in favour of Roy by basically saying that all you need to do is tank. My point is, if that were true, who cares who the GM is. Any idiot can put together a garbage roster and pick consensus top players.

I'm not advocating for Roy - you are reading this. I've been clear what I think about Roy: that he's proven he can be a good GM in the CHL, that he can be a very different manager than Bergevin. He's passionate to the extreme, we'd get a new type of GM, he'd made new mistakes.

"And lets be clear, I'm arguing that it matters who the GM is and its not as simple as just tanking for elite players."

I'm not saying otherwise, however, the Avs getting the talent by tanking doesn't make a proof against Roy's value as you seem to want to prove. It doesn't say much about Roy, one way or the other.

Roy picked McKinnon ahead of Jones, there was no real consensus here, was the right choice.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm not advocating for Roy - you are reading this. I've been clear what I think about Roy: that he's proven he can be a good GM in the CHL, that he can be a very different manager than Bergevin. He's passionate to the extreme, we'd get a new type of GM, he'd made new mistakes.

"And lets be clear, I'm arguing that it matters who the GM is and its not as simple as just tanking for elite players."

I'm not saying otherwise, however, the Avs getting the talent by tanking doesn't make a proof against Roy's value as you seem to want to prove. It doesn't say much about Roy, one way or the other.

Roy picked McKinnon ahead of Jones, there was no real consensus here, was the right choice.

I'm not sure how much value being a good GM in the CHL matters. There are only two GMs in the NHL who have CHL GM experience (same number of GMs have IHL GM experience instead and more have scouting/AHL GM and assistant GM experience). Plus, the two CHL GMs needed time as assistant GMs and have very involved Presidents of hockey Ops.

And I'm not sure how different Roy would be. They seem very similar. I've honestly never heard of bergevin characterized as anything but passionate other than here.

And the Avs aren't where they are because they got talent by tanking. That gets you to, at best, the Oilers level, where you have a few great players that can carry anyone.

And Mackinnon was the consensus number 1 in most draft rankings, including Bob Mackenzie's.

 

[Vachon23]

I'm not sure how much value being a good GM in the CHL matters. There are only two GMs in the NHL who have CHL GM experience (same number of GMs have IHL GM experience instead and more have scouting/AHL GM and assistant GM experience). Plus, the two CHL GMs needed time as assistant GMs and have very involved Presidents of hockey Ops.

And I'm not sure how different Roy would be. They seem very similar. I've honestly never heard of bergevin characterized as anything but passionate other than here.

And the Avs aren't where they are because they got talent by tanking. That gets you to, at best, the Oilers level, where you have a few great players that can carry anyone.

And Mackinnon was the consensus number 1 in most draft rankings, including Bob Mackenzie's.

Even MacKinnon say it that Roy was the one who push for him and there's not a lot of GM in the CHL with Roy pedigree in hockey to0.

 

[JianYang]

If Doug Wilson is fired in SJ would you consider him ?

Does he speak French?

 

[Vachon23]

Does he speak French?

I don't think but he's from Ottawa so maybe he can speak a little bit French and I do think the fans base would be ok with an English GM

 

[Captain Mountain]

Even MacKinnon say it that Roy was the one who push for him and there's not a lot of GM in the CHL with Roy pedigree in hockey to0.

That's fine, lets not pretend MacKinnon was some reach, he wasn't.

And my point is, CHL GM skills aren't really transferable. Its just not a jump that you see.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm not sure how much value being a good GM in the CHL matters. There are only two GMs in the NHL who have CHL GM experience (same number of GMs have IHL GM experience instead and more have scouting/AHL GM and assistant GM experience). Plus, the two CHL GMs needed time as assistant GMs and have very involved Presidents of hockey Ops.

In the end the number 1 quality of a GM is being able to hire and retain top talent. And that's not limited to players, hiring good coaches, good scouts, good development personnel, etc... that's the key to building a winning team. So when evaluating CHL GMs you have to look beyond the team having success and look at the organization as a whole and then factor in how much is due to simply having the money other teams don't and how much is the GM ability to staff the team with excellent personnel.

And I'm not sure how different Roy would be. They seem very similar. I've honestly never heard of bergevin characterized as anything but passionate other than here.

There's no doubt MB brings passion, I suspect most people will argue the main difference is that MB accepts and promotes mediocrity, whereas Roy would fire anyone that isn't doing well. I'm not sure there's much proof to that since doing anything to win as a player isn't necessarily going to translate to doing the same as GM.

For me the key to passion is curiosity. When passion means you go out and loom for ways to learn/improve all the time that's where you'll find success. When's it's limited to wearing your heart on your sleeve it doesn't mean all that much. Bergevin seems very old school in his thinking and doesn't seem very flexible in his thinking so he doesn't look like he digs into the different aspects of how to improve both the team, his staff and himself. With Roy I have no idea if he digs deep into things looking for ways to improve or not.

 

[Archijerej]

Roy would likely be a monumental mistake.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Roy would likely be a monumental mistake.

1st of all, he's not ready to take on a GM role. He needs more assistant GM time.

2nd of all, the way I see it is it's a huge mistake or it's a risky move that turns to be a great move. No in the middle sort of thing

We just don't know and I think popularity/reputation means nothing. I'm 50/50 on Roy. I see the concerns and I also see other things he would be good at which is holding people accountable. He's kind of a Torts style guy who does it his way or it's the highway. There would be no tolerance for complacency which I kind of value. That can be a good thing or a bad thing and you don't know until you give them the chance. If you want the safe move, it might result in another Bergevin. I don't think others are thinking about that

I rather find a new President and then go from there. What is Molson thinking? He's the one who is not qualified as the President and it's problem #1. I rather fix that problem first

 

[Vachon23]

1st of all, he's not ready to take on a GM role. He needs more assistant GM time.

2nd of all, the way I see it is it's a huge mistake or it's a risky move that turns to be a great move. No in the middle sort of thing

We just don't know and I think popularity/reputation means nothing. I'm 50/50 on Roy. I see the concerns and I also see other things he would be good at which is holding people accountable. He's kind of a Torts style guy who does it his way or it's the highway. There would be no tolerance for complacency which I kind of value. That can be a good thing or a bad thing and you don't know until you give them the chance. If you want the safe move, it might result in another Bergevin. I don't think others are thinking about that

I rather find a new President and then go from there. What is Molson thinking? He's the one who is not qualified as the President and it's problem #1. I rather fix that problem first

He will never be only AGM and I don't know if I totally agree with that. Yes I would prefer if he had more experience in the NHL management but in the same time he does have the same experience that Sakic/Yzerman had in the NHL (3 yrs as VP of hockey operation) when they got the job with all is experience in the Q.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If Doug Wilson is fired in SJ would you consider him ?

I'm backing the truck up.

 

[Conflicted Habs fan]

Don Cherry. He don't speak French, CBC would hate him. He'd be perfect

 

[Vachon23]

I'm backing the truck up.

I know he doesn't speak French but I would have difficulties to pass on candidate like him.
- 17 yrs of experience as GM
- Had a lot of success (miss the playoff only 2x in 17 yrs)
- Build a team that was one of the best in the league for more then 10 yrs.
- Great reputation in the league
- Offensive mind GM

I mean except the language, he git the type of pedigree that I would love

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Doug Wilson is fired in SJ would you consider him ?

Wilson as President and Roy as his GM? Give Wilson a 5 year term and Roy 1 year. This would allow Roy to learn on the job but we also have an experienced guy like Wilson grooming him and reviewing everything.

Wilson sits back behind the scenes and Roy is the face to the media? I think this is something I'd be down with.

 

[Vachon23]

Wilson as President and Roy as his GM? Give Wilson a 5 year term and Roy 1 year. This would allow Roy to learn on the job but we also have an experienced guy like Wilson grooming him and reviewing everything.

Wilson sits back behind the scenes and Roy is the face to the media? I think this is something I'd be down with.

If Roy/Molson/Wilson are all ok with that, that could be perfect but I doubt Roy want someone on top of him and I don't think Molson want to name a President. Maybe someone like Mike Gillis can have the role that Kevin Gilmore had back then but I don't see a President being name.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Roy/Molson/Wilson are all ok with that, that could be perfect but I doubt Roy want someone on top of him and I don't think Molson want to name a President

I think Roy would be fine with it at first cause he knows he won't get a GM Role with no leash. It's about how he feels about it over time. This is why I like having someone who is trusted and patient and approves all decisions in the President role.

Roy just wants to win. If you show him a road where it leads to winning... he will be fine with it. The issue is how he adjusts over time so that's why I would limit the term to 1 year or two.... then go from there. If Wilson is interested in being president, I'd push for 5 years for stability

Do I think Molson wants to hire a President? I have my doubts too. The longer he delays it, the more pressure will increase over time. Right now, Bergevin is a target so he is sheltered

 

[Vachon23]

I think Roy would be fine with it at first cause he knows he won't get a GM Role with no leash. It's about how he feels about it over time. This is why I like having someone who is trusted and patient and approves all decisions in the President role.

Roy just wants to win. If you show him a road where it leads to winning... he will be fine with it. The issue is how he adjusts over time so that's why I would limit the term to 1 year or two.... then go from there. If Wilson is interested in being president, I'd push for 5 years for stability

Do I think Molson wants to hire a President? I have my doubts too. The longer he delays it, the more pressure will increase over time. Right now, Bergevin is a target so he is sheltered

I think we overrated Molson role in the Habs hockey operation. Except signing the check, approving big trade/signing and approve or not a rebuild, I don't think he's doing that much and he's more concentrate on the business side (Where he's doing a great job)

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think we overrated Molson role in the Habs hockey operation. Except signing the check, approving big trade/signing and approve or not a rebuild, I don't think he's doing that much and he's more concentrate on the business side (Where he's doing a great job)

I'm not overrating it. I'm calling it a problem. He can change his title to CEO and focus on the business side of things. A president should be involved in both hockey and business decisions. Right now, Bergevin is basically the President of Hockey operations and GM.

Let me ask you this... if we fire Bergevin, who's doing the interviews for the new GM? Molson? That's scary

 

[nyhabsfan]

Yeah, Roy working well with people is exactly his problems.
Couldn't even work well with former Captain, teammates Joe Sakic.....

Agree, he QUIT on Sakic just before the year started and he QUIT on his teammates when he left the ice as a Canadien for the last time.

His ego is bigger than any organization...Patrick Roy should be the LAST person I would want as a GM...period!!

 

[BLONG7]

Roy would likely be a monumental mistake.

Bergevin sure was...........

 

[BLONG7]

I'm not overrating it. I'm calling it a problem. He can change his title to CEO and focus on the business side of things. A president should be involved in both hockey and business decisions. Right now, Bergevin is basically the President of Hockey operations and GM.

Let me ask you this... if we fire Bergevin, who's doing the interviews for the new GM? Molson? That's scary

That's what got us here.............Mol$on is a rich donkey...proof is in the results!
Let's hope this guy just steps away................let the board hire the hockey president, and the new hockey president hire the GM/
Mol$on can count his 1oo dollar bills in the back office.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agree, he QUIT on Sakic just before the year started and he QUIT on his teammates when he left the ice as a Canadien for the last time.

His ego is bigger than any organization...Patrick Roy should be the LAST person I would want as a GM...period!!

In a way, you got to respect the guy. He's not a yes man type of person that so many are today (puppets and heard of sheep). He disagreed with Sakic on direction and if he stayed, he felt he would be a puppet. Set aside if he was right or wrong, can you blame anybody for making a tough decision and not wanting to be a puppet?

I respect the guy for sticking to what he believes is the right way to win. And this has nothing to do with him being right or wrong. It's about being a straight shooter and I value that to some degree. Some are holding that against him which is BS. I would be more upset if he was willing to shut his mouth and go down the complacency road

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's what got us here.............Mol$on is a rich donkey...proof is in the results!
Let's hope this guy just steps away................let the board hire the hockey president, and the new hockey president hire the GM/
Mol$on can count his 1oo dollar bills in the back office.

I think he will be forced to hire a President at some point. Right now, not many can see the real problem cause Bergevin is the target and is sheltering him. So in big brother strategy, why would he fire him and make himself a target by the media and fans? Why would he put pressure on himself to hire a new GM? After all, Savard was the one who recommended to hire Bergevin. Molson is a clever business man and he's stayed out of the spot light. Bergevin is the one with the spot light and he likes it that way

If Molson fires Bergevin and hires another guy who also disappoints, that's bad business for the Habs organization cause the owner is the one accountable and the spot light turns to him like it is on Bergevin right now. Franchise value would take a hit to some degree in that case

Molson needs to change his title to CEO and hire a President. Then go hide in the shadows even more. Strategize with the President on business operations and let the President strategize with the GM on hockey operations

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I think we overrated Molson role in the Habs hockey operation. Except signing the check, approving big trade/signing and approve or not a rebuild, I don't think he's doing that much and he's more concentrate on the business side (Where he's doing a great job)

I have no problem with Molson as the president of hockey ops for the reason you just mentioned but the problem is having MB be the GM and VP making him basically the boss of everything hockey related. To hold GMs accountable, Molson should hire
a VP of hockey ops that's independent from the GM.

Honestly, MB will probably have no problem getting a job but I don't think he wants to resign with the Habs organization nor do I think he will be fired after this year with one year left. This whole conversation is about 1 year too early