If Marc Bergevin is fired, who do you want for next Habs GM ?

[Vachon23]

Team Canada is a stepping stone for GM and Coaches for decades.....Roy, not a single team want to touch him with a ten foot pole after the shit show he pulled with Colorado. You think he couldn't use this to help jumping back in the NHL?

How many GM in the league was GM of Team Canada Jr ?

 

[Milhouse40]

I'll ask again. Why did some other team not jump on Hunter after the Leafs let him walk? It's been like 2 years now bud. Hunter has a good OHL resume but like I said, it's similar to Smith in Halifax. They got big budgets to hire scouts and they have advantages.

Hunter would be a better head scout consideration vs GM at the NHL level

The one thing I like about Roy is not the language he speaks. It's his no nonsense approach and keeping everyone accountable. I think a respectable high end manager who is going to call people out is lacking with the Habs.

That didn't change the fact that his team mostly sucked in the NHL.
That's similar to the fairy tales of Weber's leadership.

You think he'S keeping everyone accountable is a great skill....but 31 other GM in the league, inculding Bergevin, has that skill.
Do he has an eye for drafting, does he has the personnality to deal for days and weeks with other GM to pull a trade.
Does he have experience in NHL contract and dealing with agents?
Does he has some philosophy to deal with the new youngster in the NHL?

A GM, if you look around the league are calm people, cerebral people....Roy is not that, he's a loose cannon.¸What's made him great as a goalies is exactly what's make him bad as GM, too hot tempered.

 

[Vachon23]

He was picked for Team Canada and for assistant-GM (more like the GM at that time) for the Leafs.
I agree with the second part, we don't know half of it when it comes to be a GM......but I know from our own history that picking a familiar with no credential like Roy, Darche, Damphousse don't work, we have the last 25 years as proofs.

Yet, none of our GM have ever been consider by any other teams.....that's not mistake I want to make again. If not one other teams consider them , we should not either.

To be fair, Gainey retired after MTL and I do think that Bergevin will get an other job in the league

 

[Habs Halifax]

That didn't change the fact that his team mostly sucked in the NHL.
That's similar to the fairy tales of Weber's leadership.

You think he'S keeping everyone accountable is a great skill....but 31 other GM in the league, inculding Bergevin, has that skill.
Do he has an eye for drafting, does he has the personnality to deal for days and weeks with other GM to pull a trade.
Does he have experience in NHL contract and dealing with agents?
Does he has some philosophy to deal with the new youngster in the NHL?

A GM, if you look around the league are calm people, cerebral people....Roy is not that, he's a loose cannon.¸What's made him great as a goalies is exactly what's make him bad as GM, too hot tempered.

I pass on Hunter. It's not about the language he speaks. With Roy, I would be open to it as long as we bring in another guy to be the President and someone Roy works well with. I think that guy is Bobby Smith! Patient and knows both the Hockey and Business side of things. And I'm sure he has history with Roy... good or bad? Not sure but in interviews and investigation, you can find that out

Roy holds people accountable and his aggression is consistent. This sends a good message to all scouts, coaches, and players. Roy will not let complacency happen. I have full confidence in that. Roy can handle both our fan base and the media. Thick skin

Hunter would be a candidate for a scout job. Not GM

 

[SOLR]

The youth was not coming. Rantanen was coming. And you're missing the key pieces the team acquired after Roy left, most of which weren't obvious moves.

And the vast majority of teams who tank get better, but don't reach contender status. Nor do all even reach playoff level. All you need to do is look at the top-10 picks in the 2015 and 2016 drafts and see which teams are actual contenders now. Its basically Toronto, Colorado and Carolina.

So basically Colorado (Sakic's team of the 90s), Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington, LA, are just flukes?

Avs had McKinnon and Rantanen, any team would have started turning it around with such key pieces.

Talking about non-sensical arguments,

All you need to do is look at the top-10 picks in the 2015 and 2016 drafts and see which teams are actual contenders now. Its basically Toronto, Colorado and Carolina.

Thanks for proving my point? You forgot Edmonton, Winnipeg. So basically half the top 10 you are talking about are emerging contenders.

Secondly, tanking isn't drafting top 10 for 1 year, those are bad years (like the habs 2 last top 3 picks). Tanking is top 5-7 picks for 3-4 straight years.

Time and time again, tanking teams win it all. They are 75%+ of cups winners in the past 15 years.

 

[Milhouse40]

You have a point there I think, although Roy was part of the Avs org as coach though, your boy was asst-GM, both did it for a very short time and did not get another NHL gig after... makes them somewhat equal IMO.

Well, Hunter it was 2 years ago and got tons of interest since then and has been GM of Team Canada during that 2 years.
He wants to be a GM and there's not a lot of opening.
As for Roy, it was 5 years ago and got zero interest since then at any level.

It's not exactly the same situation.

 

[SOLR]

I was talking about GMing

AHL GM? what is that, most teams don't have a AHL GM, it's the NHL GM.

 

[Milhouse40]

I pass on Hunter. It's not about the language he speaks. With Roy, I would be open to it as long as we bring in another guy to be the President and someone Roy works well with.

Roy holds people accountable and his aggression is consistent. This sends a good message to all scouts, coaches, and players. Roy will not let complacency happen. I have full confidence in that

Hunter would be a candidate for a scout job. Not GM

Yeah, Roy working well with people is exactly his problems.
Couldn't even work well with former Captain, teammates Joe Sakic.....

 

[Vachon23]

That didn't change the fact that his team mostly sucked in the NHL.
That's similar to the fairy tales of Weber's leadership.

You think he'S keeping everyone accountable is a great skill....but 31 other GM in the league, inculding Bergevin, has that skill.
Do he has an eye for drafting, does he has the personnality to deal for days and weeks with other GM to pull a trade.
Does he have experience in NHL contract and dealing with agents?
Does he has some philosophy to deal with the new youngster in the NHL?

A GM, if you look around the league are calm people, cerebral people....Roy is not that, he's a loose cannon.¸What's made him great as a goalies is exactly what's make him bad as GM, too hot tempered.

Ron Hextall is not what I call a calm person but I understand your point. This being said, 3 yrs ago, I would't have touch Roy for GM and I was thinking like you but he's impressing me since he return to the Q. He took a team that had nothing interesting and he clearly had a plan and it was to build a powerhouse for next yrs and he really stick to his plan. He did alote of really good move to build his team.

 

[Milhouse40]

AHL GM? what is that, most teams don't have a AHL GM, it's the NHL GM.

Tell that to Dubas or Brisebois....yeah, they were AHL GM before getting the job as NHL GM.

 

[Milhouse40]

Ron Hextall is not what I call a calm person but I understand your point. This being said, 3 yrs ago, I would't have touch Roy for GM and I was thinking like you but he's impressing me since he return to the Q. He took a team that had nothing interesting and he clearly had a plan and it was to build a powerhouse for next yrs and he really stick to his plan. He did alote of really good move to build his team.

Then you should be even more impressed about what Hunter did with his OHL team.....we're talking about a dynastie here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, Roy working well with people is exactly his problems.
Couldn't even work well with former Captain, teammates Joe Sakic.....

Strategy difference. Roy wanted to move up and Sakic was looking at youth and patience. It was a timing thing. Roy wanted Radulov. With Roy, do you trust him to rebuild or take a team with a good core and add the right improvements?

Consider Hunter for a scout job to replace Timmins.

 

[Vachon23]

Then you should be even more impressed about what Hunter did with his OHL team.....we're talking about a dynastie here.

Like I said earlier it's not impressive to select player who openly said that they only want to play for your team, look at what he did with Toronto as a scout, nothing impressive

 

[Captain Mountain]

So basically Colorado (Sakic's team of the 90s), Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington, LA, are just flukes?

Avs had McKinnon and Rantanen, any team would have started turning it around with such key pieces.

Talking about non-sensical arguments,



Thanks for proving my point? You forgot Edmonton, Winnipeg. So basically half the top 10 you are talking about are emerging contenders.

Secondly, tanking isn't drafting top 10 for 1 year, those are bad years (like the habs 2 last top 3 picks). Tanking is top 5-7 picks for 3-4 straight years.

Time and time again, tanking teams win it all. They are 75%+ of cups winners in the past 15 years.

You're calling Winnipeg and Edmonton contenders? Or even emerging contenders? Really?

And lets be clear, I'm arguing that it matters who the GM is and its not as simple as just tanking for elite players. You're the one arguing in favour of Roy by basically saying that all you need to do is tank. My point is, if that were true, who cares who the GM is. Any idiot can put together a garbage roster and pick consensus top players.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Then you should be even more impressed about what Hunter did with his OHL team.....we're talking about a dynastie here.

Nothing about what he's done is impressive.. they have money and mystique, so they just get a bunch of players to agree to play for them that won't come to the OHL otherwise.

Check his draft record with Toronto, it was f***ing brutal after the first round.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Then you should be even more impressed about what Hunter did with his OHL team.....we're talking about a dynastie here.

You seem to have ignored the part about Hunter having a big budget in London like Smith in Halifax. They have advantages so are they genius or is it about the management team they can pay and surround them with?

I like the idea of Smith as president. He's qualified for that role (hockey operations and business) Then as GM, maybe it's best to have Bergevin play out his last year in term. Cause neither of Hunter or Roy are qualified.

Last time we had a coach and GM with little experience, it was a disaster

 

[Milhouse40]

Strategy difference. Roy wanted to move up and Sakic was looking at youth and patience. It was a timing thing. Roy wanted Radulov. With Roy, do you trust him to rebuild or take a team with a good core and add the right improvements?

Consider Hunter for a scout job to replace Timmins.

Oh, if Hunter wants to head scout job or Asst-GM, I don't have a problem with that.....but not with Roy as GM.
Consider Roy as a assistant-GM at best.

And then again, you and I don't know what actually happens between Roy and Sakic.....but Sakic build a top team, so whatever Roy wasn't on board with, he was probably wrong as Sakic's plan worked out.

 

[Milhouse40]

You seem to have ignored the part about Hunter having a big budget in London like Smith in Halifax. They have advantages so are they genius or is it about the management team they can pay and surround them with?

I like the idea of Smith as president. He's qualified for that role (hockey operations and business) Then as GM, maybe it's best to have Bergevin play out his last year in term.

You seems to have ignored that Hunter drafted his players.....he didn't bought them

 

[DAChampion]

Tanking would be extremely difficult for the Habs right now.

First, they'd have to pick the right time and conditions to lose the Weber and Price contracts. That's not easy and would require good strategic thinking. Petry might also need to go.

Then they need to decide what to do about Tatar, Armia, Danault.

Finally, they need a coach who is good with that strategy.

 

[Vachon23]

Nothing about what he's done is impressive.. they have money and mystique, so they just get a bunch of players to agree to play for them that won't come to the OHL otherwise.

Check his draft record with Toronto, it was f***ing brutal after the first round.

And with the 1st round, even my young brother who no nothing about hockey would have select Matthews/Marner/Nylander with those pick

 

[Habs Halifax]

Oh, if Hunter wants to head scout job or Asst-GM, I don't have a problem with that.....but not with Roy as GM.
Consider Roy as a assistant-GM at best.

And then again, you and I don't know what actually happens between Roy and Sakic.....but Sakic build a top team, so whatever Roy wasn't on board with, he was probably wrong as Sakic's plan worked out.

In truth, neither Roy or Hunter are qualified to be a NHL GM. They need more time in assistant GM roles.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You seems to have ignored that Hunter drafted his players.....he didn't bought them

Not ignoring that. Hunter is not a one man team. He has a big budget to hire scouts... like Smith in Halifax. It's hard to nail down if they are great or if they are good cause of advantages

 

[Vachon23]

You seem to have ignored the part about Hunter having a big budget in London like Smith in Halifax. They have advantages so are they genius or is it about the management team they can pay and surround them with?

I like the idea of Smith as president. He's qualified for that role (hockey operations and business) Then as GM, maybe it's best to have Bergevin play out his last year in term. Cause neither of Hunter or Roy are qualified.

Last time we had a coach and GM with little experience, it was a disaster

And they have an advantage on US region player that the Q teams dosent have and that help them a lot (Tkachuk/Kane/Dvorak/ect)

 

[Vachon23]

Not ignoring that. Hunter is not a one man team. He has a big budget to hire scouts... like Smith in Halifax. It's hard to nail down if they are great or if they are good cause of advantages

It's not even good scouting, they make deal with agents before the draft

 

[beowulf]

Roy took the Avs from near last to near first in his 1st season as coach. He has a bad reputation based on him not being able to keep his emotions in check but he is older and more wise today I am sure. Age can do that to humans.

I'd be willing to give Roy a shot. The guy will do what it takes to win and he will call out players like Drouin without thinking twice. I think an authority figure like that at the top sends a good message to those who are complacent.... it's not tolerated

And lost in the first round and didn't make the playoffs the next two years before basically being booted. Roy is not a guy that will ever truly keep his temper under control and his departure from Colorado was in past because he cried he wanted more control, basically he wanted to be coach and GM like with the Rampart which he of course owns. I can easily see him complaining about player control if he is only coach...and if hired as GM he would likely put his nose far too much into the coaches duties.