I don't like how the draft is going...

[FireBird71]

What's his story? Read somebody saying he seriously turned up his offense from the middle of the season to the end.

Probably once they made their trades but I think they got value

 

[Larkin1578]

I'll admit, I wanted defenseman in the worst way...but after Zadina being passed up 3 times, I was locked in for getting Zadina. I wanted defense with 30th overall, kept seeing Veleno dropping, I was locked in to getting Veleno.

Honestly, this is the first time in years I've ever been this happy with their selections!! Sure, I questioned day 2 picks..but I'll learn to get over it!

Don't fret about not getting the player you wanted. I sure didn't!!

 

[Martinez]

What's his story? Read somebody saying he seriously turned up his offense from the middle of the season to the end.

He’s very raw (August bday), big kid, good skater. Shows flashes of offensive potential. He can make breakout passes, he can skate the puck out on his own. Makes dumb plays here and there. People look at his numbers and think safe pick, defensive d man, that isn’t the case. He’s a project.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I do find it interesting how the conversation has shifted from the Wings not being able to draft top defenseman because we've been too good, to it doesn't matter if we take a defenseman early since they can be taken in the 2nd round...

The biggest issue is this organizations inability to draft and develop them, which is why I've been a big proponent of trying to trade for one, but I've seen backlash on that as well... So if we can't draft/develop or won't draft/develop them and trading is a bad idea because the 'price is too high'... what then?

Then we continue to sweep the whole issue under the rug as if it wasn't that important, and continue to ice teams like the post-2012 editions that have good forwards but still struggle to score because they never get the puck with speed or in scoring position.

 

[Henkka]

Was there a defenseman who was slated to be that good that we passed up on?

No, all the time when we went with BPA on our turn, the forward was far better than any defenceman on the ranks.

The situation changed on the McIsaac pick after Noel was gone, forwards from #35 to #70 were quite equal as defencemen. Then they went after defencemen.

 

[FireBird71]

Regula coming to Flint opening night..can’t wait

 

[TheMule93]

A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.

First time I've ever heard this

 

[DRW204]

Veleno seems like a kid who fell victim of over-scouting. If he tops out as a 2C that is a win at pick #30. Pick 30 alumni includes:

Last 4 seasons prior to 2018

Year	Player	Position	Team	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017	Eeli Tolvanen	FORWARD	Nashville Predators	3	0	0	0	0
2016	Sam Steel	FORWARD	Anaheim Ducks
2015	Nick Merkley	FORWARD	Arizona Coyotes	1	0	0	0	2
2014	John Quenneville	FORWARD	New Jersey Devils	14	1	3	4	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

all time points leaders

Year	Player	Position	Team	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
1976	Randy Carlyle	DEFENSE	Toronto Maple Leafs	1055	148	499	647	1400
1991	Sandis Ozolinsh	DEFENSE	San Jose Sharks	875	167	397	564	638
1989	Patrice Brisebois	DEFENSE	Montreal Canadiens	1009	98	322	420	623
1973	Pat Hickey	FORWARD	New York Rangers	644	192	212	404	351
1979	Mark Hardy	DEFENSE	Los Angeles Kings	915	62	306	368	1293
1981	Jan Erixon	FORWARD	New York Rangers	556	57	159	216	167
2011	Rickard Rakell	FORWARD	Anaheim Ducks	313	96	102	198	57
2010	Brock Nelson	FORWARD	New York Islanders	398	99	89	188	145
2012	Tanner Pearson	FORWARD	Los Angeles Kings	308	69	74	143	80
1994	Deron Quint	DEFENSE	Winnipeg Jets	463	46	97	143	166
2002	Jim Slater	FORWARD	Atlanta Thrashers	584	67	71	138	407
1984	Peter Douris	FORWARD	Winnipeg Jets	321	54	67	121	80
1983	David Bruce	FORWARD	Vancouver Canucks	234	48	39	87	338
1986	Neil Wilkinson	DEFENSE	Minnesota North Stars	460	16	67	83	813
2001	Dave Steckel	FORWARD	Los Angeles Kings	425	33	46	79	129
1996	Josh Green	FORWARD	Los Angeles Kings	341	36	40	76	206
1988	Adrien Plavsic	DEFENSE	St. Louis Blues	214	16	56	72	161
2013	Ryan Hartman	FORWARD	Chicago Blackhawks	162	30	33	63	144
2000	Jeff Taffe	FORWARD	St. Louis Blues	180	21	25	46	40
2009	Simon Despres	DEFENSE	Pittsburgh Penguins	193	6	37	43	150

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

From what I've heard from a # of people on this board Hronek took a step back this season but is still likely to be a #3-4 d-man.

Honestly,... you have heard wrong. Hronek had a very good year. He's not ready yet, but he had to show he could be a high end offensive defenseman at the AHL level, and he did just that.

 

[Oddbob]

All the talk that you only get top D in the Top 10 in drafts, is off a little, when 7 of the top 20 scoring d-men were either drafted outside round one, or undrafted.

1) 3rd in PTS for D - John Klingberg - Drafted (5/131)
2) 4th in PTS for D - Shayne Gostibehere - Drafted (3/78)
3) 9th in PTS for D - Torey Krug - (Not Drafted)
4) 10th in PTS for D - Tyson Barrie - Drafted (3/64)
5) 14th in PTS for D - Roman Josi - Drafted (2/38)
6) 18th in PTS for D - Kris Letang - Drafted (3/62)
7) 20th in PTS for D - Dustin Byfuglien - Drafted (8/245)

Then other quite good d-men like Shea Weber and many others drafted outside the top 10 or 1st round.

 

[Shaman464]

Hronner is looking like he will be a good #1

No he's looking like a good #3.

 

[19 for president]

I've hated the way the Wings have developed dmen over the past 10 yeara or so. They drafted incomplete players and then refused to let them play to their strengths, crowded the pipeline so they didn't have time to work out their kinks in the minors, waited until they were out of waiver options to bring them up, and then often gave them little playing time again when they reached the NHL. Ericsson, Kindl, Smith, Marchenko, XO, Sproul, Jensen etc. Now I don't think any where ever going to be top pair dman but the fact that only E had really managed an NHL career is pretty damning when you look at their pedigree. Some players will inevitably bust, but not that many. Not when you have CHL dmen of the year, NCAA dman of the year, WJ standouts, etc.

As this relates to this draft, im ok stocking up on bpas even if they are forwards. If you dont think anyone besides Dahlin is a number 1 dman so be it and if yoi think Zadina can be a star you have to take him. Build a surplus of forwards and maybe dangle a budding star and a first for a dman a year or two from now. Hope AA has a better year and dangle him. Lets hope Hronek and Cholo continue to develop and put two decades of poor 2 development behind the Wings. If you have geat depth throughout you can win without an elite D, but it is definitely a harder model. Overall I'm pretty happy with this drafr.

 

[Henkka]

I think this draft has to start a timer for Detroit. Okay, you just drafted basically 4 guys who are going to contribute in the next 3-ish years. Zadina is going to come in very quickly, and then there are other young guys who are also coming in quite shortly (Rasmussen, Smith, Svechnikov, Hronek, Cholowski, etc.), and Veleno, Bergren, and McIsaac can come in a little bit later. This is a team that is going to upgrade in relatively short order, and that'll help them compete. But that also ends up meaning the Wings have 3-ish years to upgrade the defense to complement them, otherwise they're going to run into serious cap and timing issues.

Nah, you just trade some of those extra forwards for a proven defenceman, when it looks like that you have too many.

Drafting forwards is not a problem, it's the answer, sooner or later.

 

[jkutswings]

Nah, you just trade some of those extra forwards for a proven defenceman, when it looks like that you have too many.

Drafting forwards is not a problem, it's the answer, sooner or later.

Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think this draft has to start a timer for Detroit. Okay, you just drafted basically 4 guys who are going to contribute in the next 3-ish years. Zadina is going to come in very quickly, and then there are other young guys who are also coming in quite shortly (Rasmussen, Smith, Svechnikov, Hronek, Cholowski, etc.), and Veleno, Bergren, and McIsaac can come in a little bit later. This is a team that is going to upgrade in relatively short order, and that'll help them compete. But that also ends up meaning the Wings have 3-ish years to upgrade the defense to complement them, otherwise they're going to run into serious cap and timing issues.

 

[Electric Eric]

A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.

Really? I don't think I've really ever seen that on this board. If anything he exceed all expectations of his first season with GRG.

 

[obey86]

For people who didn't like taking the forwards so high...did you realize how bad their forward prospects were?

1. Rasmussen
2. Svechnikov
3. Givani Smith
4. Turgeon

And that's pretty much it. The team needed forward prospects just as bad (if not more so) than they needed defensive prospects.

 

[NickH8]

A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.

Oh, so mid season. You said he took a step back this season so I thought you meant the season as a whole.

 

[obey86]

Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.

Is passing up a potential superstar forward that falls into your lap an efficient way to build a roster in your opinion?

 

[jkutswings]

Is passing up a potential superstar forward that falls into your lap an efficient way to build a roster in your opinion?

When the most important facet of said roster has zero encouraging NHL players, it's a great way to get right back to bubble status and stay there for a long time.

But my gripe isn't with taking Zadina over a defenseman. It's in not still finding a way to either draft a potential top pairing guy, or a boatload of 3/4 guys.

Take the superstar. But then don't continue to bury your head in the sand for how crucial it is to get some real blue liners.

 

[NickH8]

Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.

You think Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren are nickels? Say we pick Kaapo Kakko next year, the skilled Finnish winger. If that happens you've suddenly got many significant trade pieces. Mantha is suddenly available, Athanasiou and Svechnikov become even easier to part ways with. Mantha+Athanasiou would get you a damn fine young defenseman, and you're still left with a U23 forward group of Zadina, Kakko, Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen, and Berggren. You've also got Bertuzzi, Smith, Pope, and Turgeon providing depth. Between the d-man you trade for and McIsaac, Cholowski, and Hronek, you're looking good, even if one of them doesn't pan out.

 

[jkutswings]

You think Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren are nickels?

I have zero complaints about Zadina as a player, and I wish people would stop misinterpreting that part of my argument. What I don't like is that Detroit now has another handful of forwards that are - Zadina notwithstanding - middle six type guys, while the defense is still bereft of a single player or prospect they might be a true top pairing player. And hoarding those type of forwards doesn't make much sense, because the trade market tends to require 2-3 of them for one even halfway decent defenseman.

Say we pick Kaapo Kakko next year, the skilled Finnish winger. If that happens you've suddenly got many significant trade pieces. Mantha is suddenly available, Athanasiou and Svechnikov become even easier to part ways with. Mantha+Athanasiou would get you a damn fine young defenseman, and you're still left with a U23 forward group of Zadina, Kakko, Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen, and Berggren.

No, Mantha and AA maybe get you a Justin Faulk, which is a decent player, but isn't close to the anchor needed.

You've also got Bertuzzi, Smith, Pope, and Turgeon providing depth. Between the d-man you trade for and McIsaac, Cholowski, and Hronek, you're looking good, even if one of them doesn't pan out.

It's a war of attrition. I only expect one legit NHL defenseman for every 3-4 decent prospects. Partly because it's inherently a numbers game, and partly because the Wings stink at drafting enough D, drafting good D players, and developing said D players once drafted.

So I wanted 3 of their first 4 picks on defense, because even 2 of those 3 panning out would be beating the curve. As it stands, maybe McIsaac turns into a 3/4 guy, maybe he turns into Jakub Kindl, but there simply aren't enough high picks used on defense to be confident that you'll really end up building it up.

 

[Syckle78]

Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.

We didn't collect nickles. That's why people aren't upset. We went for the skilled guys finally. You know how we never have tempting offers when something juicy is available? That's cause all we had are nickles. We're trying to change that.


Furthermore, until Holland and this regime is gone I have zero confidence in them drafting and developing defensemen. Forwards they seem to have a grasp on so might as well stock up until something changes at the top.

 

[AD1066]

I've been beating the defense drum all year, but with the way things fell, I think Holland made the right call with each of our first three picks.

The truth is we're not great at any position, relative to other upcoming teams, and need the most valuable assets we can get, if only to trade them down the road.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

What if we are so bad we get Kakko or Jack Hughes is a problem I would love to have. Sure we might not get the D-man for forward trade, but I am not going to cry about winning a top 3 spot in the lottery ever. We need to hit on a lot of talent over the next few years. It felt like we hit on a lot of it this year.

I would have drafted differently, but upset isn't really totally how I feel. Time will tell, I trust our group so that makes it a little easier for me to look at it and say hey they went BPA and with the skill slant. That is what they have been saying for a year they were going to do.... I cannot say we weren't warned. Holland kept saying he wanted to do something with the D, but what presented to the group with the first three picks were players they obviously felt they couldn't walk away from.

I will say I am becoming increasingly annoyed that we never consider handedness when picking. I know it isn't everything, but it is something and we don't seem to pay any attention to it at all.

 

[Pavels Dog]

When the most important facet of said roster has zero encouraging NHL players, it's a great way to get right back to bubble status and stay there for a long time.

But my gripe isn't with taking Zadina over a defenseman. It's in not still finding a way to either draft a potential top pairing guy, or a boatload of 3/4 guys.

Take the superstar. But then don't continue to bury your head in the sand for how crucial it is to get some real blue liners.

Look. The Wings scouts may suck. It's fully possible they are crazy or complete morons.
But from the sounds of it they had Zadina as the 2nd best player in the draft, Veleno very high (let's speculate and say top ~15), and Berggren also high (say top ~20).. they went into the draft targeting D, because they thought the BPA at both 6, 30 and 33 would likely be D. They thought Zadina would go top 5, and both Veleno and Berggren to be gone at 30. When they fall, how can you ignore it? The fact that most people count Wings as big winners of the draft, and fans of other teams are talking about how we stole all 3 of those guys should tip you off to the fact that our scouts made the right call ON PAPER.

In the end the most important facet of any NHL roster is talent. Will it look bad for us if there are a couple of top pairing D coming out of the 2nd round or late 1st while we get nothing much out of Veleno/Berggren/McIsaac? Sure. But that's every draft. We might just as easily get a couple of the top players of the draft with these selections.

 

[shanman]

Look. The Wings scouts may suck. It's fully possible they are crazy or complete morons.
But from the sounds of it they had Zadina as the 2nd best player in the draft, Veleno very high (let's speculate and say top ~15), and Berggren also high (say top ~20).. they went into the draft targeting D, because they thought the BPA at both 6, 30 and 33 would likely be D. They thought Zadina would go top 5, and both Veleno and Berggren to be gone at 30. When they fall, how can you ignore it? The fact that most people count Wings as big winners of the draft, and fans of other teams are talking about how we stole all 3 of those guys should tip you off to the fact that our scouts made the right call ON PAPER.

In the end the most important facet of any NHL roster is talent. Will it look bad for us if there are a couple of top pairing D coming out of the 2nd round or late 1st while we get nothing much out of Veleno/Berggren/McIsaac? Sure. But that's every draft. We might just as easily get a couple of the top players of the draft with these selections.

Agree. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if arizona takes zadina, which i thought was a lock (imagine him and keller as scoring threats for the yotes) wings take a dman. Of them i would be about 65 percent sure it would be hughes, followed by bouchard. Yeah i wish perhaps we had gotten another d perhaps instead of berggren, but it wasn't just us passing on guys like wilde at that point.

 

[Snuggs]

Hey everyone, I'm new here but I've been a lurker for a week or so and love the discussion on the site so I joined!

Any who, I was pretty set on the first round guys and good with selecting both based on where we selected them. I mean they both dropped in our laps as Red Wings fans, and While I think Zadina can be Patrick Elias good, Veleno looks more of another Darren Helm or Greg Johnson type player who'll hold down the third line for a long time and possibly play a lot on the penalty kill. I wanted defense in the worst way, but based on how things shook up I'm ok with who they took when they took them, it's not like we traded up and lost assets to get guys projected higher. I think both first round picks will be long time NHL players with Zadina possibly being a top flight scorer.

That said, the trade market for defense is heating up a bit, slightly, with Faulk/Meyers rumored or thought to possibly be available. It'll likely cost both AA/Nyquist/ and possibly two prospects(Hicketts or Cholowski) or two mid round picks but both Nyquist/AA are basically on 1 year deals which lowers their value imo. I think Faulk could be had for AA/Nyquist/Hicketts or Cholowski. One prospect I wouldn't trade is Filip Hronek who I think should play in the NHL next season and work our second unit PP. He's a good looking player I watched live a few times in Grand Rapids.

The real wild card will be the young players Wings bring up. I expect honestly Rasmussen/Zadina/Hronek to make this team. If you make the trade for Justin Faulk I mentioned above you start to build a competitive roster imo with the foundations started this year, and build on from that the following.

The team can always waive Ericsson too and save I believe 1 million on the cap and bring up a younger player if they choose too.

As far as FA is concerned I'm not expecting too much, a veteran scorer possibly like Vanek or someone like that that they could flip at the deadline if they're out of the race. I expect a veteran back up like Khudobin or Chad Johnson. I don't think the organization is or are looking for the next replacement through FA for Jimmy Howard. I like Dennis Cholowski too on defense, but think we should give him 1 year of pro hockey at the AHL to see if he can really handle the transition well from juniors.

My personal projections on what the Red Wings Roster will look like next season. Like I said, not a scout or anything just my opinions.

Roster: 18-19
(C)Henrik Zetterberg – Dylan Larkin – Anthony Mantha
UFA – Frans Nielson – Filip Zadina
Tyler Bertuzzi – Michael Rasmussen – Luke Glendenning
(A)Justin Abdelkader – Darren Helm – Matt Puempel/ UFA

* Dominic Turgeon
* Luke Witowski

Justin Faulk – Trevor Daley
Nick Jensen – Danny DeKeyser
Filip Hronek – (A)Niklas Kronwall

* Jonathan Ericsson

Jimmy Howard
UFA
~ Matej Machovsky~

 

[jkutswings]

For the sake of argument, let's say my take on Veleno is too harsh, some other takes are a tad too optimistic, and let's say he pans out to be a tweener 2/3C kinda player. More than just the Lars Eller that Button compares him to, and becomes something of the next Frans Nielsen (the early years, not post bad contract).

Now let's also temper my expectations a bit of the defensemen I would've drafted instead. So instead of Addison or Wilde becoming the next Brent Seabrook or Tyson Barrie, they become the next Sammy Vataanen.

Based on where this franchise is, and their track record of identifying forwards versus identifying defensemen...you think it's more important to add the next Frans Nielsen then the next Sammy Vataanen? If you really think that way, you're entitled to your opinion.

But I'm never ever going to agree with that. Not for this team.

 

[shanman]

For the sake of argument, let's say my take on Veleno is too harsh, some other takes are a tad too optimistic, and let's say he pans out to be a tweener 2/3C kinda player. More than just the Lars Eller that Button compares him to, and becomes something of the next Frans Nielsen (the early years, not post bad contract).

Now let's also temper my expectations a bit of the defensemen I would've drafted instead. So instead of Addison or Wilde becoming the next Brent Seabrook or Tyson Barrie, they become the next Sammy Vataanen.

Based on where this franchise is, and their track record of identifying forwards versus identifying defensemen...you think it's more important to add the next Frans Nielsen then the next Sammy Vataanen? If you really think that way, you're entitled to your opinion.

But I'm never ever going to agree with that. Not for this team.

my only thing with that is they still couldve had addison or wilde, but instead went with berg. So really it is better to compare him with those guys. Personally i would have gone with one of those guys over berggren. Think if enough of hronek/cholo/hicketts/sulak/lindstrom/saarijarvi can make somewhat of a step up to the majors and berggren hits his potential that it will work out well with only adding mcisaac

 

[Claypool]

Based on where this franchise is, and their track record of identifying forwards versus identifying defensemen...you think it's more important to add the next Frans Nielsen then the next Sammy Vataanen? If you really think that way, you're entitled to your opinion.

But I'm never ever going to agree with that. Not for this team.

Most of us realize there's going to be 4-5 more drafts where the Red Wings are probably picking top 5. There's plenty of time to get one. I don't know why you care so much about getting #3 or #4 defensemen, either. This team needs a elite #1 more than anything.