I don't like how the draft is going...

[jkutswings]

I'm probably a population of one here, and that's ok, but I definitely do not like the direction thus far.

Zadina will be a very good player. I really really wanted Dobson there, but I can at least understand the logic, thinking his ceiling is an elite scorer, which is also a need. Still don't love it, but I understand it.

But I hate the Veleno pick, and I hate the surrounding comments even more.

Great skater is a plus, but the consistent knock is that he has no high end offensive potential. The projection for this guy is closer to a Darren Helm than another Larkin, let alone a true #1 center.

And the Tyler Wright comments on Twitter? We were targeting centers? How about you address your biggest organizational need - by a wide margin - with a pick that actually has a chance of yielding a top pair kid?

Is it possible to still land 1-2 decent to good defensemen in round 2? Yes. I still like Wilde, McIsaac, and Addison. But I think the most optimistic ceiling on anybody left is a #3, and more likely a #4 .

Heck, I even would've preferred a Noel or a McLeod at 30, because both those guys have higher ceilings than Joe "Jack of All Trades" Veleno.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I don't like their board, I haven't for several years now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And when there's a big difference in talent evaluation - coupled with a less than stellar development record on defense - I wonder if this tire fire will ever really get fixed. At least, before they get enough forwards to make them a bubble team again, but have zero shot at going anywhere in the playoffs, while having zero chance at landing an impact player on the blue line.

So even if I'm totally on an island, so be it. But I came away from Round 1 extremely disappointed. I hope Round 2 has some pleasant surprises, and they find additional ways to add major long term help on the back end.

Click to read more...

 

[Tatar Shots]

Honestly do you watch the prospects play or are you just spewing crap because some people can never be satisfied? McLeod higher upside than Veleno? Seriously... please explain what you like about McLeod that makes him higher upside than Veleno...

 

[vippe]

This honestly just sounds like you being bitter for not getting the player you wanted.

 

[KJoe88]

If you can’t realize how much Zadina helps this team then I don’t know what it’s say.

All it takes is one player to turn the tide for a team and give it a direction.
Zadina is that player.

And add in Velano who has lots and lots of potential. I’m dumbfounded at your logic.

 

[jkutswings]

If you can’t realize how much Zadina helps this team then I don’t know what it’s say.

All it takes is one player to turn the tide for a team and give it a direction.
Zadina is that player.

And add in Velano who has lots and lots of potential. I’m dumbfounded at your logic.

I never said Zadina doesn't help. Actually, I specifically said that I DO understand the pick, even if it wasn't my first choice.

And here's a quote from Craig Button of TSN on Veleno and all his potential:

https://www.tsn.ca/joe-veleno-centre-1.1085954

"Very industrious, diligent centre who doesn’t possess elite skills but will find ways to contribute in multiple areas."

Woohoo! So glad we used a first round pick on a guy whose biggest attribute is that he works hard (even if his skill set is nothing special).

Take Bode Wilde at 30. Or McIsaac or Addison or Tychonic or Samuelsson. Or trade up into the 20's like the Rangers did to get Miller. Or do SOMETHING to show that you realize how badly you need a great defenseman.

They addressed center depth, when they don't have a single "starter" on the blue line.

 

[KJoe88]

We need offense just as much as defense.

 

[jkutswings]

Honestly do you watch the prospects play or are you just spewing crap because some people can never be satisfied? McLeod higher upside than Veleno? Seriously... please explain what you like about McLeod that makes him higher upside than Veleno...

OK, let's start with TSN's evaluation:

https://www.tsn.ca/ryan-mcleod-centre-1.1086874

Craig Button's Analysis

"Excellent skating playmaker. Drives play with his speed and creates opportunities for his team and headaches for opponents."
Projection: Top 6 Skill Forward
Comparable: Nicklas Backstrom


https://www.tsn.ca/joe-veleno-centre-1.1085954

Craig Button's Analysis

"Very industrious, diligent centre who doesn’t possess elite skills but will find ways to contribute in multiple areas."
Projection: Top 9 All-Around Centre
Comparable: Lars Eller


Now thehockeywriters.com:

Ryan McLeod – 2018 NHL Draft Prospect Profile

https://thehockeywriters.com/joseph-veleno-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

They actually use words like, "jack-of-all-trades" and "safe" to describe him. He simply does not have a top line player type of ceiling. The consensus ranking can be 30 slots higher for all I care, but if the skill set simply isn't more valuable, then it doesn't matter. This team needs core pieces, and Veleno isn't that guy.

 

[obey86]

some people just dont know what to do if they have nothing to complain about.

 

[Tatar Shots]

OK, let's start with TSN's evaluation:

https://www.tsn.ca/ryan-mcleod-centre-1.1086874

Craig Button's Analysis

"Excellent skating playmaker. Drives play with his speed and creates opportunities for his team and headaches for opponents."
Projection: Top 6 Skill Forward
Comparable: Nicklas Backstrom


https://www.tsn.ca/joe-veleno-centre-1.1085954

Craig Button's Analysis

"Very industrious, diligent centre who doesn’t possess elite skills but will find ways to contribute in multiple areas."
Projection: Top 9 All-Around Centre
Comparable: Lars Eller


Now thehockeywriters.com:

Ryan McLeod – 2018 NHL Draft Prospect Profile

https://thehockeywriters.com/joseph-veleno-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

They actually use words like, "jack-of-all-trades" and "safe" to describe him. He simply does not have a top line player type of ceiling. The consensus ranking can be 30 slots higher for all I care, but if the skill set simply isn't more valuable, then it doesn't matter. This team needs core pieces, and Veleno isn't that guy.

So no, you have not seen them play? Veleno is a much better playmaker than McLeod. McLeod is also much more of a perimeter player. If you are going to complain about Veleno not having ‘elite skill,’ McLeod certainly does not have it either. Jack of all trades and safe was also used to describe Larkin.

 

[rajjon]

I disagree. I think it was Craig Custance's podcast with Corey Pronman where I heard that the notion that the Wings NEED a defenseman is an odd take, because their prospect pool is arguably strongest at D and lacking high end forwards. Hickets, Hronek, Cholowski are all solid prospects, and there are some others that might develop well given a bit more time. But they lack high end forward talent beyond Rasmussen. They needed some center depth and goal scorers as well.

The Wings ended up with the 5th worst record and the 6th overall pick by being not good enough all around. They lack high end forward prospects. They need talent at every position. Larkin is great, but needs more playmakers around him, Mantha might get there, AA is a bit of an enigma, Svechnikov hasn't exactly lived up to his expectations, Nyquist (I know, not a prospect...) seems to have settled in to what he is after having an explosive debut to the NHL. Bertuzzi and Rasmussen seem good, but both fit into more of a gritty goal guys. I love the Zadina pick. The last time the Wings had a player score 30+ in a season was 10 years ago. 2008-09 with Hossa, Franzen, Datsyuk and Z. Zadina gives them that potential 30+ goal guy, and might open up more space for Mantha to get there too. Rasmussen can possibly get there too with more talent on the PP as well. I was bummed when the Wings slid back a spot in the draft lottery, but got excited again when the Canadiens drafted Kotkaniemi, then Tkachuk to Ottawa and Hayton (!) to Phoenix. I would have been fine if the Wings took D there, because they had their choice of the #2 D, if they wanted Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard or Dobson, but I am happy they took BPA, which was Zadina, who does fill a need and can step in to the NHL as soon as this season.

Veleno kind of reminds me of the Larkin pick, where people were disappointed in the scouting reports that questioned his high end skill, but loved his skating and work ethic. Having Zadina and Mantha to pair up with those guys as high scoring wingers and adding more speed in AA/Nyquist, or net crashing guys like Rasmussen and Bertuzzi could give the wings nice scoring lines. I'm fine taking Veleno at this spot, even if he is just a 3rd line center who can replace/improve upon Nielsen in a couple years, but there was talk about him being one of the best centers available in this draft before he fell to #30...

Plus the Wings have the #33 and #36 to bring in some of the solid prospects left on the board, which include some good defense prospects. Draft BPA, seems like the Wings didn't expect Zadina to be there at 6, and they probably had Veleno highest on the board available at #30, which isn't a questionable decision at all.

Too many holes in this organization to just draft a D because you think it is the biggest need. The only definite #1 D prospect in this draft was Dahlin, after that, it is not know if any of the other would be cornerstone guys. Wings need definite talent.

Plus you named 5 guys you wanted the Wings to take at #30, when they have 2 of the next 5 picks. At least 2 of those guys will still be there with the Wings next 2 picks. Veleno might not have been.

 

[Pavels Dog]

While D is a big need, our D pool is actually full of depth. I get wanting D at #6 but that goes out the window when a player like Zadina falls to us. At #30 there was no D that was of such caliber that they’d instantly be a better prospect than Hronek/Cholo, which is what our D pool is lacking. And with picks 33+36, we have many good D available, while Veleno would have likely been gone.

This draft is shaping up great for us. BPA pays off eventually, while rigidly sticking to positional need burns you more often as you miss the real talent.

 

[jkutswings]

The point is that I wouldn't use a 2nd round pick on Veleno, let alone a 1st, because I don't think his best case scenario is anything special. Swing for the fences instead of taking safer options. Larkin is a great 2C, or maybe a poor man's 1C, but taking another guy who has an even lower ceiling doesn't really fill a need, it just keeps the depth cabinet filled.

Or, to put it another way, having a dozen middle six / bottom 3 guys solves nothing. Detroit needs cornerstones, and Joe Veleno has less of a chance at ever being a cornerstone than options still on the board, let alone ones they could've traded up for.

 

[Claypool]

So even if I'm totally on an island, so be it. But I came away from Round 1 extremely disappointed.

Of course you did. Thankfully, your opinion isn't shared by many.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The point is that I wouldn't use a 2nd round pick on Veleno, let alone a 1st, because I don't think his best case scenario is anything special. Swing for the fences instead of taking safer options. Larkin is a great 2C, or maybe a poor man's 1C, but taking another guy who has an even lower ceiling doesn't really fill a need, it just keeps the depth cabinet filled.

Or, to put it another way, having a dozen middle six / bottom 3 guys solves nothing. Detroit needs cornerstones, and Joe Veleno has less of a chance at ever being a cornerstone than options still on the board, let alone ones they could've traded up for.

His high-end ceiling being in question doesn’t mean he has no potential. I mean there are people who rated him higher than Hayton, many had him top 15, he’s had plenty of hype. Even if he ”just” turns into a bottom 6 player he’s worth taking at #30 when we know we have two early 2nds where we can take bigger gambles if we want players with a low potential of making the NHL

 

[RedWingsfan55]

I wanted Bouchard and Dobson as well, assuming zadina wouldve been drafted all ready(as well as dahlin svecha and tkachuk). But since he wasnt you take the BPA.



Also theres still some pretty damn good defenseman available to be picked at 33 and 36.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Dude I usually agree with you but not on this one.

Zadina fell into our laps, easily a top 3 choice

Valeno is way better than Miller.

I too wanted to go Dmen heavy but that was under the assumption other GMs would do their part as well.

We just need to go D heavy here on out, starting with Wilde

Imagine we get three guys who were projected to go in the top 20, without having 3 picks in the top 20?

thats a win, a huge win

 

[Larkin2AA]

Say you pick Dobson at 6, who would you pick at 30 that would make this team better at a faster rate than Zadina and Velano?

 

[lilidk]

some people just dont know what to do if they have nothing to complain about.

antidepressant can help

 

[SCD]

There are so many positions to fill over the next few drafts, the Wings took the BPA. Could there be a better player than Veleno still on the board...absolutely. But, the likelihood Veleno pans out as a strong second or third line center is very high. The likelihood both of these players will be on the roster in ten years is very high. Good draft so far.

 

[WingNut]

The point is that I wouldn't use a 2nd round pick on Veleno, let alone a 1st, because I don't think his best case scenario is anything special. Swing for the fences instead of taking safer options. Larkin is a great 2C, or maybe a poor man's 1C, but taking another guy who has an even lower ceiling doesn't really fill a need, it just keeps the depth cabinet filled.

Or, to put it another way, having a dozen middle six / bottom 3 guys solves nothing. Detroit needs cornerstones, and Joe Veleno has less of a chance at ever being a cornerstone than options still on the board, let alone ones they could've traded up for.

I get why you are upset as I wanted Bode Wilde with that pick but Veleno is a good player. He is a two-way player, will stay at C, greta passer, decent goal scorer and can p;lay in all situations. Not to mention he has a great head on his shoulders. You can say he kinda sounds like a Jonathan Toews type player? a second line C at #30 is a good pick to me and if we can still get Wilde, and Samuelson in rd 2? That is a great first 2 rounds.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There are so many positions to fill over the next few drafts, the Wings took the BPA. Could there be a better player than Veleno still on the board...absolutely. But, the likelihood Veleno pans out as a strong second or third line center is very high. The likelihood both of these players will be on the roster in ten years is very high. Good draft so far.

Yeah I know some people freak out if every pick isn’t a potential superstar, but this is a huge draft for us. If we can get 3 or 4 NHLers out if it it’s going to massive for our rebuild. Great start in the 1st.

 

[Ulysses31]

Looks good to me

 

[Frk It]

We got my #3 player at 6, and my #11 player at 30. That’s great value for me. Can’t possibly be mad at it. I see good upside with both Zadina and Veleno.

 

[rhef3]

You can't be too upset at zadina at 6, it was as another poster put it "a golden nugget", but what if we end up drafting wilde at 33 ?
are you upset we didn't take wilde at 30 but would still be upset if we drafted him at 33 anyway instead ?

Would you of passed on zadina to take dobson at 6 ?

 

[TheMule93]

While I don't agree I appreciate the effort put into this post and I'll be interested in reading all the discussion that stems from it