I don't like how the draft is going...

[The Geelee]

Nah that first round was amazing. Getting a top flight sniper in Zadina and a playmaking center projected to go mid-first in Veleno is unreal.

This draft has the potential to be one of their best in a long time.

 

[Reddwit]

I was as hellbent as anyone that we take a D in the first round but it’d be bananas to pass up on Zadina for Dobson or Bouchard - there’s just so little to complain about with Zadina. He’s even decent defensively.

Then I don’t get the Veleno hate at 30. He “cost us” Alexeyev and maybe one other defenseman. If Miller fell or Merkley was still kicking around at 30, I’d get it but even Sandin and Beaudin were gone at that point.

 

[Henkka]

It will be fun day to see, when Cholowski and Hronek jump in, the need for young solid defencemen disappears.

And then whining people will find next problem to whine.

No goaltending. No right handnesses. Just find the reason to be against the consensus.

 

[Timber]

At first i was a bit down that they didn't choose a D. I would have been happy with either Hughes or Dobson, but after a short night i'm more positive. Zadina and Veleno can both become impact players for this team. Plus, we still have two picks left in the second round to pick up decent D's and maybe grab a goalie in the 3rd. With two extra forwards, i think we can also be more aggressive pursuing a D through trade.

 

[NickH8]

I'm probably a population of one here, and that's ok, but I definitely do not like the direction thus far.

Zadina will be a very good player. I really really wanted Dobson there, but I can at least understand the logic, thinking his ceiling is an elite scorer, which is also a need. Still don't love it, but I understand it.

But I hate the Veleno pick, and I hate the surrounding comments even more.

Great skater is a plus, but the consistent knock is that he has no high end offensive potential. The projection for this guy is closer to a Darren Helm than another Larkin, let alone a true #1 center.

And the Tyler Wright comments on Twitter? We were targeting centers? How about you address your biggest organizational need - by a wide margin - with a pick that actually has a chance of yielding a top pair kid?

Is it possible to still land 1-2 decent to good defensemen in round 2? Yes. I still like Wilde, McIsaac, and Addison. But I think the most optimistic ceiling on anybody left is a #3, and more likely a #4 .

Heck, I even would've preferred a Noel or a McLeod at 30, because both those guys have higher ceilings than Joe "Jack of All Trades" Veleno.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I don't like their board, I haven't for several years now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And when there's a big difference in talent evaluation - coupled with a less than stellar development record on defense - I wonder if this tire fire will ever really get fixed. At least, before they get enough forwards to make them a bubble team again, but have zero shot at going anywhere in the playoffs, while having zero chance at landing an impact player on the blue line.

So even if I'm totally on an island, so be it. But I came away from Round 1 extremely disappointed. I hope Round 2 has some pleasant surprises, and they find additional ways to add major long term help on the back end.

I disagree with you on Veleno, his playmaking is excellent, dude is an assist machine. He just doesn't have the highlight reel goals, so people say he doesn't have the skills. He's definitely not Darren Helm.

 

[Ulysses31]

Veleno has Larkin+ potential..maybe worse shot but better play making..better passing...great skating


With Zadina and rasmussen to pot goals not to mention Mantha i like DRW forwards going forward.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, don’t worry about Tyler Wright comments. Veleno just had a great 2nd half of his draft year, he brings some good stuff to the table. He sees the ice way better than someone like Darren Helm.

 

[shanman]

Think most people would have been happy had we moved up in first round and drafted a guy like bode Wilde, yet barring another team moving up to where buffalo will be starting round 2 we can just simply select him with our pick. Had someone said we could get zadina, veleno, and wilde i would have taken that in a heartbeat.

 

[Run the Jewels]

If we're truly looking at just two more years of Holland then it's probably for the best they continue to focus on forwards where they've had success. So with that being said this has been a successful draft regardless of what happens from here on out. Build up your strength and then when we have a new GM we can focus on rebuilding our awful defense.

 

[jkutswings]

It will be fun day to see, when Cholowski and Hronek jump in, the need for young solid defencemen disappears.

And then whining people will find next problem to whine.

No goaltending. No right handnesses. Just find the reason to be against the consensus.

Neither are top pair material. Still waiting to see where Detroit thinks they'll find a guy who is, since there aren't any left in the draft, and they don't have the ammo to trade for one.

This team has lots of needs. But some can only (realistically) be filled in certain ways. And it feels like they've passed up on the best strategy for doing so. Hopefully they have multiple first round picks in 2019 and luck into one there.

 

[Larkin2AA]

Neither are top pair material. Still waiting to see where Detroit thinks they'll find a guy who is, since there aren't any left in the draft, and they don't have the ammo to trade for one.

This team has lots of needs. But some can only (realistically) be filled in certain ways. And it feels like they've passed up on the best strategy for doing so. Hopefully they have multiple first round picks in 2019 and luck into one there.

If Zadina falls to 6, do you still take Dobson? Who do you take at 30 with how the draft went? Who do you move up to get that is a top pairing D?

 

[Ulysses31]

Neither are top pair material. Still waiting to see where Detroit thinks they'll find a guy who is, since there aren't any left in the draft, and they don't have the ammo to trade for one.

This team has lots of needs. But some can only (realistically) be filled in certain ways. And it feels like they've passed up on the best strategy for doing so. Hopefully they have multiple first round picks in 2019 and luck into one there.

Wings are entering a LEAFs like stage with potential to be as good up front but lacking on the back end(leafs lacking #1 but better D overall) If this draft gets the wings to a point where they are a #1 D away from contending ...how can 1 complain?

 

[rhef3]

We can easily draft 2 defenseman in wilde/woo/tychonick/McIsaac/Samuelsson and make a trade for a more proven defenseman (faulk, hanifin, tanev?)
Lot's of options and free agency is right around the corner, plenty of time for trades with nyquist,AA, etc.

Kenny will address the defense but no rebuild is completed in one offseason, gotta be patient.

 

[jkutswings]

Would you of passed on zadina to take dobson at 6 ?

Yes. I wanted D at 6, then at least 1, preferably 2 more D with the next 3 picks. This team needs as many quality blue liners as it can get, and this is a draft with several.

Dobson as my #1. Miller/Sandin/Wilde/McIsaac as my #2. Alexeyev/Addison/Tychonick as my#3. Absolutely stack the system with defenders, so that, between them, Cholowski and Hronek, and taking another 2-3 guys next year, you have a wealth of material to build from, and it changes from an organizational weakness to a strength. Maybe even to the extent that you can trade one for a good forward down the line.

This franchise stinks at evaluating, acquiring, and developing great defenders. This draft could've made a big dent in that, and now the best I can hope for is 2 guys with 3/4 potential, rather than that on top of the first possible top pair guy since Kronwall in 2000.

EDIT: And that's assuming nobody trades up to take Wilde with Buffalo's pick.

 

[shanman]

I would love to see someone compile a list of the top dmen in the league and what rounds they were picked in. Too lazy to do that myself, but find it weird so many are seemingly writing off anybody not picked in the first 10 picks of the first round as ever having a chance to become a top D option.

 

[jkutswings]

I would love to see someone compile a list of the top dmen in the league and what rounds they were picked in. Too lazy to do that myself, but find it weird so many are seemingly writing off anybody not picked in the first 10 picks of the first round as ever having a chance to become a top D option.

Oh, it's certainly possible. I just don't have any faith whatsoever that THIS franchise can do it.

If Detroit doesn't use a top 10 draft pick to get a #1 D, I don't think their front office is competent enough to find one any other way.

 

[ulvvf]

Yes. I wanted D at 6, then at least 1, preferably 2 more D with the next 3 picks. This team needs as many quality blue liners as it can get, and this is a draft with several.

Dobson as my #1. Miller/Sandin/Wilde/McIsaac as my #2. Alexeyev/Addison/Tychonick as my#3. Absolutely stack the system with defenders, so that, between them, Cholowski and Hronek, and taking another 2-3 guys next year, you have a wealth of material to build from, and it changes from an organizational weakness to a strength. Maybe even to the extent that you can trade one for a good forward down the line.

This franchise stinks at evaluating, acquiring, and developing great defenders. This draft could've made a big dent in that, and now the best I can hope for is 2 guys with 3/4 potential, rather than that on top of the first possible top pair guy since Kronwall in 2000.

D-men is very overrated, and it is very obvious if you look at team success. Zadina was both by far the BPA and played in a much much more importent position. Detroit maybe needs d-men, but they need forwards as well and zadina was the easy choice after ottawa and arizona had missed empty net.

 

[Heaton]

Yes. I wanted D at 6, then at least 1, preferably 2 more D with the next 3 picks. This team needs as many quality blue liners as it can get, and this is a draft with several.

Dobson as my #1. Miller/Sandin/Wilde/McIsaac as my #2. Alexeyev/Addison/Tychonick as my#3. Absolutely stack the system with defenders, so that, between them, Cholowski and Hronek, and taking another 2-3 guys next year, you have a wealth of material to build from, and it changes from an organizational weakness to a strength. Maybe even to the extent that you can trade one for a good forward down the line.

This franchise stinks at evaluating, acquiring, and developing great defenders. This draft could've made a big dent in that, and now the best I can hope for is 2 guys with 3/4 potential, rather than that on top of the first possible top pair guy since Kronwall in 2000.

EDIT: And that's assuming nobody trades up to take Wilde with Buffalo's pick.

Definitely understand your point of view and thinking. I think we need to realize (and I'm not saying you don't realize this), that this draft is still the very beginning steps of this rebuild. We'll most likely be drafting around the same spot next year. I do think it's a problem if management feels like they do not need to draft or trade for defenseman for some weird reason, because as we've seen for the last many years little emphasis has been made to fix the defense. Hopefully Holland shows some urgency and uses another avenue to start building the defense since right now we have nothing to hang our hat on.

 

[Heaton]

D-men is very overrated, and it is very obvious if you look at team success. Zadina was both by far the BPA and played in a much much more importent position. Detroit maybe needs d-men, but they need forwards as well and zadina was the easy choice after ottawa and arizona had missed empty net.

I'm happy with the Zadina pick but right wing is more important than defense? No it isn't. You win down the middle, center, defense, goalie. Washington doesn't win this year without Holtby, Carlson and Kuznetsov.

 

[WingNut]

D-men is very overrated, and it is very obvious if you look at team success. Zadina was both by far the BPA and played in a much much more importent position. Detroit maybe needs d-men, but they need forwards as well and zadina was the easy choice after ottawa and arizona had missed empty net.

Disagree totally with the "D-men is very overrated" comment as our D has been pathetic and D-men are the hardest to find which is why we got a 2nd rd pick for Branden Smith! I am happy with the Zadina pick but I was hell bent on going D at #6 too until Zadina unexpectedly fell.

 

[jkutswings]

Definitely understand your point of view and thinking. I think we need to realize (and I'm not saying you don't realize this), that this draft is still the very beginning steps of this rebuild. We'll most likely be drafting around the same spot next year. I do think it's a problem if management feels like they do not need to draft or trade for defenseman for some weird reason, because as we've seen for the last many years little emphasis has been made to fix the defense. Hopefully Holland shows some urgency and uses another avenue to start building the defense since right now we have nothing to hang our hat on.

That's reasonable. But next year, the guys you're hoping to win the lottery with are forwards, not defensemen. Sure, a lot can change between now and then, but if there are one or more top pair candidates now, you take them now, because it's the hardest piece to find.

Again, even if I preferred Dobson over Zadina, I can still understand that pick. But I've yet to see or hear a single evaluation or projection of Veleno that puts him higher than a 2C - with 2/3C being the most common rating - and on a team starved for defense, I don't see how that's a better asset than even a 3/4 defenseman.

 

[Frk It]

I really don’t get what you are expecting to get at pick #30. Veleno was a former top 5 consideration, and finished his draft season strong.

Do you want to be reading about a guy with a good shot at being a 1C at pick #30? That’s just asking to be lied to, as far as I’m concerned.

We got great value with both picks. That’s one of the most important things to do when drafting.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I would love to see someone compile a list of the top dmen in the league and what rounds they were picked in. Too lazy to do that myself, but find it weird so many are seemingly writing off anybody not picked in the first 10 picks of the first round as ever having a chance to become a top D option.

Norris Trophy winners over the past 10 years
Victor Hedman: 1st round
Brent Burns: 1st round
Erik Karlsson: 1st round
Duncan Keith: 2nd round
PK Subban: 2nd round
Lidstrom: 3rd round
Chara: 3rd round

Scouting has improved dramatically so the odds of getting a Norris caliber dman outside of the first round are becoming much longer. Lidstrom was drafted 30 years ago and Chara was drafted 22 years ago. We also don't have anywhere near as strong of a track record of drafting defense as we do forwards. It's one of the glaring weaknesses of Ken Holland's tenure as GM. It's funny, people always defend how bad we are at developing defenseman by saying we don't draft enough, and then when we don't draft them they are excited by the guys we do draft so they always defend not taking defensemen with the draft picks where we would have the best odds at actually drafting a high quality defenseman.

I fully expect Niklas Kronwall to be the only high end d-man drafted during Ken Holland's tenure as GM.

 

[GBFP]

Given we drafted Veleno with #30, I think I'd have rather had Zadina taken before our #6 and then drafted Dobson or Bouchard.

Dobson/Veleno would be a mint first round while also filling needs.

BUT Zadina is on the board you have to take him. Holland is taking what the draft is giving him - not trying to be cute or overthink.

 

[obey86]

Neither are top pair material. Still waiting to see where Detroit thinks they'll find a guy who is, since there aren't any left in the draft, and they don't have the ammo to trade for one.

This team has lots of needs. But some can only (realistically) be filled in certain ways. And it feels like they've passed up on the best strategy for doing so. Hopefully they have multiple first round picks in 2019 and luck into one there.

Not really.

How many of the top scoring defensemen in the NHL last year were top 5ish picks?

A plethora of the great defensemen in the league were found in the 2nd round or later.