Post-Game Talk: I don't have a creative title

[Machinehead]

I don't remember you saying goaltending is important before? But whatever I'll take your word for it.

Of course it's important. Don't get dense on me.

In a vacuum, a goaltender can win games by himself. He can win series by himself.

There are a number of caveats with goaltending. Sustainability. Randomness. Value over replacement. These are all things you understand.

You're better than "they won so they played good." You're smarter than that.

For a flawed team they are top 1/3 in GF/G and GA/G, top 10 in PP and PK. Doesn't sound so flawed. You and other always look at 1 side of the coin and it doesn't mean that you are right.

Of course I'm right. I've always been right about this. And it's been happening for a generation.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

BTW, the Rangers are at 100 PDO, good for 17th in the NHL.

NHL Team PDO Leaders 2021-22 | Team Rankings

NHL Team PDO Leaders

www.statspros.com

 

[Machinehead]

Also, like, the Rangers are good at some things. Who f***ing said they weren't?

Passing is not one of them. My god.

 

[MrAlmost]

If Igor choose to Billy Smith it and sleep for half the season and then become a wall when it matters I'm fine with that.

Rempe should get a call from the league on that hit. A charge. Maybe a game. He did good in the fight. I know people are worried, but the fights will cool down and it ain't the 90s or early 00s. We just so happen to run into a few teams in a row with a tough guy.

I wish Lavi would stop line doctoring. It's pointless and ruins flow. Just roll the lines and stop trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

Otherwise good game. Tough team to play in their building on a Saturday. Sometimes people gotta remember the other team is trying to win too. Haha

I'm just not sure what is in store for Kakko and Goodrows usage tonight was odd. We will see.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The thing is I could buy the GA/G being worse than it looks because of goaltending. But apparently this team can't pass on an NHL level but are 9th in the NHL in GF/G. I guess every goal must come off a faceoff win and the guy who gets control of the puck skates around the entire defense by himself and scores.

Yup. Saying stuff like they can't pass at an NHL level could not be farther from the truth. That's what happens when one only sees one side of the coin.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

@GoAwayPanarin

GoAwayLindgren when?

We'll see how round 1 goes.

If Panarin pulls another dud it's probably staying but I may wilt on that. Lindgren has been that bad.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Of course it's important. Don't get dense on me.

In a vacuum, a goaltender can win games by himself. He can win series by himself.

There are a number of caveats with goaltending. Sustainability. Randomness. Value over replacement. These are all things you understand.

You're better than "they won so they played good." You're smarter than that.

Of course I'm right. I've always been right about this. And it's been happening for a generation.

But I never said they won so they played well. I literally blew my top last game because they almost blew a lead to the Blue Jackets in the third period and got caved. But there's a difference between that and pretending this is some all time horrible team. Someone compared them to the 2015-16 and 2016-17 teams and that seems a lot more reasonable, no? Neither team won. The 16-17 team probably loses to the Pens even if they beat the Sens. But not every team is destined to be a cup contender. I'd much rather watch this than the garbage from the Giants.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Also, like, the Rangers are good at some things. Who f***ing said they weren't?

Passing is not one of them. My god.

Their problem is they pass too much not that they can't pass at an NHL level.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Of course it's important. Don't get dense on me.

In a vacuum, a goaltender can win games by himself. He can win series by himself.

There are a number of caveats with goaltending. Sustainability. Randomness. Value over replacement. These are all things you understand.

You're better than "they won so they played good." You're smarter than that.

Of course I'm right. I've always been right about this. And it's been happening for a generation.

So those numbers I posted are bad then. Good to know.

 

[Machinehead]

But I never said they won so they played well. I literally blew my top last game because they almost blew a lead to the Blue Jackets in the third period and got caved. But there's a difference between that and pretending this is some all time horrible team. Someone compared them to the 2015-16 and 2016-17 teams and that seems a lot more reasonable, no? Neither team won. The 16-17 team probably loses to the Pens even if they beat the Sens. But not every team is destined to be a cup contender. I'd much rather watch this than the garbage from the Giants.

Maybe I just haven't explained this well enough.

Let me break it down.

Before the all-star break, the Rangers:

-Had an elite powerplay
-Had an elite penalty kill
-Weren't by any means a terrible 5v5 team, they just weren't great
-Had a top 5 scorer in the league
-Had good overall goaltending (not great) weighing everything including Igor's bad stretch and Quick's good one

Cause for concern, yes. But like, I could see why they're winning games, and I could see them feasibly going on a run. They still can't f***ing pass though. They've been one of the worst passing teams in the NHL since the letter went out. I'll die on that hill. At least I'm dead and I don't have to watch the Rangers try to transition anymore. That aside, yeah, they're probably fine and I'm open to the notion that everyone sucks at something in the cap era.

Since the all-star break:

-Still a decent PK
-Vezina-level goaltending from Igor
-Still Panarin
-Chicago/San Jose at every other aspect of hockey.

And in the second column, they're 11-1-1. I'm willing to accept that over 13 games, that just happened, and there's no good reason for it. Some people aren't. They think there has to be justice in everything and sports rewards people. If you want that, like you said, go watch a movie. It doesn't happen here.

And you know what? Maybe that's just a hiccup and they go back to being a the solid playoff team they were.

Considering we're in March, and considering what's driving the poor performance, I think it's deeply concerning and more indicative than just a rough patch, but that's just my opinion.

 

[DanielBrassard]

BTW, the Rangers are at 100 PDO, good for 17th in the NHL.

NHL Team PDO Leaders 2021-22 | Team Rankings

NHL Team PDO Leaders

www.statspros.com

Yes, that’s why they are 17th in 5v5 GF%. They aren’t getting terrible lucky or unlucky. They are about where they should be overall. Although this last 13 games or so has been dreadful at 5v5. Goaltending and some 3v3 and empty net game tying goals have won them games they shouldn’t have or they got points out of.

Last 13 games which is what Machinehead and I have been harping on, they are 1st in PDO. Which kinda reinforces everything we have been saying.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Maybe I just haven't explained this well enough.

Let me break it down.

Before the all-star break, the Rangers:

-Had an elite powerplay
-Had an elite penalty kill
-Weren't by any means a terrible 5v5 team, they just weren't great
-Had a top 5 scorer in the league
-Had good overall goaltending (not great) weighing everything including Igor's bad stretch and Quick's good one

Cause for concern, yes. But like, I could see why they're winning games, and I could see them feasibly going on a run. They still can't f***ing pass though. They've been one of the worst passing teams in the NHL since the letter went out. I'll die on that hill. At least I'm dead and I don't have to watch the Rangers try to transition anymore. That aside, yeah, they're probably fine and I'm open to the notion that everyone sucks at something in the cap era.

Since the all-star break:

-Still a decent PK
-Vezina-level goaltending from Igor
-Still Panarin
-Chicago/San Jose at every other aspect of hockey.

And in the second column, they're 11-1-1. I'm willing to accept that over 13 games, that just happened, and there's no good reason for it. Some people aren't. They think there has to be justice in everything and sports rewards people. If you want that, like you said, go watch a movie. It doesn't happen here.

And you know what? Maybe that's just a hiccup and they go back to being a the solid playoff team they were.

Considering we're in March, and considering what's driving the poor performance, I think it's deeply concerning and more indicative than just a rough patch, but that's just my opinion.

Losing Chytil and to a lesser extent Wheeler has opened up holes we didn't need. Those guys gave us 3 good lines.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Maybe I just haven't explained this well enough.

Let me break it down.

Before the all-star break, the Rangers:

-Had an elite powerplay
-Had an elite penalty kill
-Weren't by any means a terrible 5v5 team, they just weren't great
-Had a top 5 scorer in the league
-Had good overall goaltending (not great) weighing everything including Igor's bad stretch and Quick's good one

Cause for concern, yes. But like, I could see why they're winning games, and I could see them feasibly going on a run. They still can't f***ing pass though. They've been one of the worst passing teams in the NHL since the letter went out. I'll die on that hill. At least I'm dead and I don't have to watch the Rangers try to transition anymore. That aside, yeah, they're probably fine and I'm open to the notion that everyone sucks at something in the cap era.

Since the all-star break:

-Still a decent PK
-Vezina-level goaltending from Igor
-Still Panarin
-Chicago/San Jose at every other aspect of hockey.

And in the second column, they're 11-1-1. I'm willing to accept that over 13 games, that just happened, and there's no good reason for it. Some people aren't. They think there has to be justice in everything and sports rewards people. If you want that, like you said, go watch a movie. It doesn't happen here.

And you know what? Maybe that's just a hiccup and they go back to being a the solid playoff team they were.

Considering we're in March, and considering what's driving the poor performance, I think it's deeply concerning and more indicative than just a rough patch, but that's just my opinion.

So Igor playing Vezina level despite our issues with goaltending in general or Igor's play at times in his career (you more on the former and me on the latter) is something that's not a surprise. Panarin is not a surprise. If we keep those two from the 13 games and play at a good level 5 on 5 what exactly are you expecting our record and goal differencial to be 13-0 instead of 11-1-1 and instead of 50-27 what do you expect it to be? +23 in 13 games, that on average is almost 2 goals more than their opponent. There has never been a season in NHL history that through every stretch a team was humming along on every dimension. The Rangers were 7-2-1 without Fox and looked good. After Fox came back they went off the rails. That's just one example of weird results within one season.

 

[Machinehead]

RW and C are definitely holes and they were the holes I was concerned about before they went off the rails.

What's causing them to go off the rails is that half their top 4 D aren't NHL players right now. That's not going to be fixed because the team doesn't see it as a problem.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

RW and C are definitely holes and they were the holes I was concerned about before they went off the rails.

What's causing them to go off the rails is that half their top 4 D aren't NHL players right now. That's not going to be fixed because the team doesn't see it as a problem.

Is it not possible that there are just no better options there? Drury has shown before to fix problems, even those that he himself created. He did not hesitate to waive Nemeth for example.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I also want to point out how last year there was a lot of alarmism about the Rangers playing the Devils and getting skated out of the rink. They ended up losing a 2-0 road lead, embarrassing yes but the series went 7 games and the goals scored were equal. Game three could have gone either way and they scored a tying goal on a BS penalty. We were that close to a 3-0 lead. Let's be honest here the alarmism about the Devils was overblown. Yes we lost but if we talk about luck and randomness that loss had a ton of it. We should have won that series. And us losing was not because we played a juggernaut who ended up losing badly next round.

 

[Machinehead]

Is it not possible that there are just no better options there? Drury has shown before to fix problems, even those that he himself created. He did not hesitate to waive Nemeth for example.

A guy like Nemeth is a #6 D. There are almost always better options if you identify them.

There aren't better options readily available without major moves to take the minutes Lindgren and Trouba are playing.

Moreover, the minutes these guys play to begin with tell me the team thinks they're doing great. At the very least, Laviolette.

I'm not sure what Drury thinks. And if Drury does see the usual suspects as problems, when is he going to stop hiring coaches that love the usual suspects? He already clashed with Gallant over this.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I also want to point out how last year there was a lot of alarmism about the Rangers playing the Devils and getting skated out of the rink. They ended up losing a 2-0 road lead, embarrassing yes but the series went 7 games and the goals scored were equal. Game three could have gone either way and they scored a tying goal on a BS penalty. We were that close to a 3-0 lead. Let's be honest here the alarmism about the Devils was overblown. Yes we lost but if we talk about luck and randomness that loss had a ton of it. We should have won that series. And us losing was not because we played a juggernaut who ended up losing badly next round.

And they still think the Devils are good and will still think that when they miss the playoffs and will continue to bash the team that finishes with 100+ points. SMH.

 

[Machinehead]

I also want to point out how last year there was a lot of alarmism about the Rangers playing the Devils and getting skated out of the rink. They ended up losing a 2-0 road lead, embarrassing yes but the series went 7 games and the goals scored were equal. Game three could have gone either way and they scored a tying goal on a BS penalty. We were that close to a 3-0 lead. Let's be honest here the alarmism about the Devils was overblown. Yes we lost but if we talk about luck and randomness that loss had a ton of it. We should have won that series. And us losing was not because we played a juggernaut who ended up losing badly next round.

That we were close to winning that series is just another example of the randomness in this sport. We were as terrible in that series as I expected us to be.

Now, if you want to say, because of the randomness, we're never that far away from succeeding, that I can get behind, but we have to change certain things.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

A guy like Nemeth is a #6 D. There are almost always better options if you identify them.

There aren't better options readily available without major moves to take the minutes Lindgren and Trouba are playing.

Moreover, the minutes these guys play to begin with tell me the team thinks they're doing great. At the very least, Laviolette.

I'm not sure what Drury thinks. And if Drury does see the usual suspects as problems, when is he going to stop hiring coaches that love the usual suspects? He already clashed with Gallant over this.

But Lindgren and Trouba weren't this bad until this year. The difficulty in making changes is probably why they're still here. Is Lindgren a UFA or an RFA after this season?

 

[Machinehead]

But Lindgren and Trouba weren't this bad until this year. The difficulty in making changes is probably why they're still here. Is Lindgren a UFA or an RFA after this season?

Trouba was. Trouba was a bad player his last season in Winnipeg. That was a mistake from day 1. If I ever indicated otherwise, it was just because I was excited to get rid of Neal Pionk who has continued to be awful, but we replaced him with a taller Pionk.

Lindgren, you're absolutely right. He was always effective and just fell off the face of the earth this year.

He's coming up on being an RFA.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That we were close to winning that series is just another example of the randomness in this sport. We were as terrible in that series as I expected us to be.

Now, if you want to say, because of the randomness, we're never that far away from succeeding, that I can get behind, but we have to change certain things.

Maybe it's my eye test but we dominated the Devils in games 1 and 2. This was not because we won both games 5-1. This wasn't a 5-1 win that we had a week or so ago where we were outshot 40-18 or whatever. The Devils had nothing offensively. Then the Devils played much better but barely generated anything in game 3. Games 4 on (I missed games 6 and 7 but both were supposedly not great, especially 7) they sucked yes. But if they win game 3 like they should have that's a 3-0 lead where we dominate throughout. Maybe that break their will and we're talking about a laugher of series that we dominated. Instead they get a BS penalty called against them, the Devils tie it and Hamilton wins it in OT.

 

[Ned Braden]

A lot people genuinely do not care how they play as long as they get points in the standings.

Points in the standings do not bring Championship banners to MSG, i'm afraid.

I want this team to win a cup, they way they play makes that highly unlikely.

People were defending Gallant because he had such and such amount of points in this first 2 seasons as coach which was better than any other coach in NYR history. We see what good that did us in the playoffs.

They're a lot more relevant to championships than whatever the hell goes into determining that win o'meter thing.

There's a lot of folks here that bang on about charts and numbers from paid websites, and watching these numbers has made them certain...absolutely certain...that the Rangers SHOULD have lost more games than they've won this year, and multiple guys wearing letters on the jersey suck.

As fans that's your right. But try to recognize that you're arguing against reality and the results therein when you insist that a poster is lying to themselves if they think the second best team in the league is good. Some of you are too good yourselves to take that kind of position.

I was out coaching youth hockey for the first period tonight, but what i saw in the second, third, and OT was a good hockey game between two very good teams. I enjoyed watching that game. Not sure if I'd characterize tonight's game as stealing a point...but stealing wins on the road in the playoffs is how series are won, so maybe that was good practice.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe it's my eye test but we dominated the Devils in games 1 and 2. This was not because we won both games 5-1. This wasn't a 5-1 win that we had a week or so ago where we were outshot 40-18 or whatever. The Devils had nothing offensively. Then the Devils played much better but barely generated anything in game 3. Games 4 on (I missed games 6 and 7 but both were supposedly not great, especially 7) they sucked yes. But if they win game 3 like they should have that's a 3-0 lead where we dominate throughout. Maybe that break their will and we're talking about a laugher of series that we dominated. Instead they get a BS penalty called against them, the Devils tie it and Hamilton wins it in OT.

I think Game 1 was worse than people remember. And that's fair. We beat the Devils 5-1 in a playoff game, people are excited. It was closer than the score indicated and Vanacek or whatever the f*** his name is really shit his pants in that game.

Game 2 we absolutely blew them off the ice and we probably deserved to win game 3.

Games 4-7 were some of the worst hockey I ever watched.

It was a weird series. There wasn't a single game (outside of most of game 1 before Vanacek fell apart) where both teams played well.

 

[17futurecap]

The Rangers scored two goals in 4 playoff losses last season, the power play goes dry for a week, and the five on five play isn’t good enough, and that’s your season over in a weeks time.