How much to extend D-Cat and Strome?

[hawksfan50]

The difference why TB can get guys to take a bit less than they would get on the open market is because Florida is a better tax situation than in most bother States or in Canadian NHL cities ...Take home pay makes up for taking a bit less than true market value.

Illinois is not a low tax state and so D-Cat and Strome's agents ate Not going to give up proper value just to do the Hawks a favour on the cap till they can get Crawford and Seabrook off the books when the 2020/21 season gets going..

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

This is where I'm at.

If he's willing to give you, like <5mil for <5 years, then sure, do it. Otherwise, wait it out and make him prove he can do it over a longer period.

If you look at that guy's charts, the Hawks are a bottom 3 team in the league. I don't buy that.
Listen, logic says Strome is on a hot streak...I'm willing to suspend logic for a little bit because his hockey sense is off the charts. If he hadn't shown elite hockey sense I'd be with most of you guys with regard to hot streak/good...I'm not saying that I'm sure he's going to put up a ppg, but it's more of the "wait and see what the remainder of the season/next season brings" I want to see more before making a grand declaration or anything. Most of you discount the idea that he might be special offensively. I don't discount it, and the reason I don't because of how he thinks the game. Let's see how this plays out first.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Not at all, just going off the comps. Of course I’d like to get them cheap.

Let me put it this way. I would not trade Cat for Marner and think he will get 10-11M this offseason.

I can be a bit too generous though, in our fantasy hockey league, looking back, most of my trade offers would have been losses for me if they weren’t declined. So you have a point, lol.

Marner is not going to get 11m. He's not going to get Matthews money. It's just not happening, so I'm not sure why you keep saying it. If he does, I'll gladly eat Crow, and laugh at the Leafs FO destroying their chances at a Cup even more. I'm that confident he doesn't get 11m.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

It's obviously a small sample size but Strome has a pretty darn good S% for his career in the NHL so far (13.6%). Sure his S% for the Chicago portion is a little higher (19.6%) but it's not ridiculous or anything. It jives with my eye test too because Strome has a pretty darn heavy shot. The dude went 3rd overall for a reason.

This also ignores his passing vision which is somewhere between above average and elite.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

It's obviously a small sample size but Strome has a pretty darn good S% for his career in the NHL so far (13.6%). Sure his S% for the Chicago portion is a little higher (19.6%) but it's not ridiculous or anything. It jives with my eye test too because Strome has a pretty darn heavy shot. The dude went 3rd overall for a reason.

This also ignores his passing vision which is somewhere between above average and elite.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Again, we have to let this play out over the next 100 games or so.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Marner is not going to get 11m. He's not going to get Matthews money. It's just not happening, so I'm not sure why you keep saying it. If he does, I'll gladly eat Crow, and laugh at the Leafs FO destroying their chances at a Cup even more. I'm that confident he doesn't get 11m.

Matthews money is 11.6M. I said Marner will get 10-11M. Does him getting 10 instead of 11 really make that much of a difference?

I do think it will be closer to 11 than 10 though, could be wrong.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Matthews money is 11.6M. I said Marner will get 10-11M. Does him getting 10 instead of 11 really make that much of a difference?

I do think it will be closer to 11 than 10 though, could be wrong.

Really? You're gonna nitpick over 600k in my post?

I don't think he even deserves 10.

I'd give him 8 or 8.5 at the most.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I don't think he even deserves 10.

I'd give him 8 or 8.5 at the most.

And that’s all I’m trying to say. The landscape has been fundamentally transformed. The young stars are getting Toews and Kane money whether we agree with it or not. I do agree with it personally. They carry the load for their teams. Let the 28+ crowd make less unless they want to agree to short term deals.

 

[ChiHawks10]

And that’s all I’m trying to say. The landscape has been fundamentally transformed. The young stars are getting Toews and Kane money whether we agree with it or not. I do agree with it personally. They carry the load for their teams. Let the 28+ crowd make less unless they want to agree to short term deals.

Yes, but Marner is not Matthews... Marner is not a 1C. He's a complimentary wing to your 1C a la Kane. Except he's not nearly as good as Kane, was, or is. If Marner gets 11m and term, Toronto might as well slam their door shut on a chance at the Cup, IMO. He's a damn good player, but he's not your 1C. And he's not deserving of 1C money.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Really? You're gonna nitpick over 600k in my post?

I don't think he even deserves 10.

I'd give him 8 or 8.5 at the most.

This aint happening. He’s getting at least what Eichel gets.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Marner is not going to get 11m. He's not going to get Matthews money. It's just not happening, so I'm not sure why you keep saying it. If he does, I'll gladly eat Crow, and laugh at the Leafs FO destroying their chances at a Cup even more. I'm that confident he doesn't get 11m.

As long as Marner is okay with sitting out half a season, the reports are everywhere that he thinks that he’s worth Matthews money.

And it could very well be a Kane and Toews situation. You can’t just pay one a whole lot more than the other, you risk pissing the other one off. I’ll honestly be shocked if Marner doesn’t get a very similar contract.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

Powers had an article today about Cat's potential contract and suggest 6 years at $7 million is about right for him, based on comparables.

Sounds about right to me, maybe a little closer to $8, but I think that's the range.

 

[LordKOTL]

Because if he was a bigger guy, I don't think he has to hold out, I think they pay him the 8mil or close to it.

I believe I said in my post he got paid fairly after his Art Ross, right?

I'm pretty happy paying MSL more than Khabibulin and Guerin in 2006, especially given age, position (never pay a goalie that much of the cap percentage) and trajectory.

That Cap% was just recockulous. Thanks for dredging up that memory...

Is it possible to offer Cat a bridge deal since he is not an RFA until after the 20/21 season? Maybe something like 3/18M after the 19/20 season which lets him hit UFA at age 26 for a possible big payday?

Not at the output El Gato is producting at. I think Saad/Panarin are your starting point at the low end.

 

[pvr]

I think Marner checks in between $9.5-10.5 million. Doing it again this year. The Leafs will try to move Nylander after the season. I can see Ottawa being a fit because they need to hit the cap floor after losing Duchene and Stone this summer. Hopefully they hold the Leafs feet to the fire on any trade.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Marner is on pace for almost 100 points this year. He’s gonna get paid, as he should. Not his problem Toronto went out and signed Tavares.

 

[Malagahawks]

To be fair, I would think as the CAP grows on a year to year basis you have to in parallel increase offers to your most coveted UFA's/RFA's. Toews/Kaner money is no longer top end money for the most coveted FA's.

 

[ChiHawks10]

This aint happening. He’s getting at least what Eichel gets.

No, I don't expect that is what will happen. I expect the Toronto FO will overpay him. Matthews bent them over, now Marner will too.

As long as Marner is okay with sitting out half a season, the reports are everywhere that he thinks that he’s worth Matthews money.

And it could very well be a Kane and Toews situation. You can’t just pay one a whole lot more than the other, you risk pissing the other one off. I’ll honestly be shocked if Marner doesn’t get a very similar contract.

Except Marner is not Kane. And he's not Matthews either. Everyone knows your 1C gets paid, including the players on the ice...

I mean, really? You think these guys are gonna get pissed off? What about all the hundreds of players making 2 or 3m? Do they get pissed because the better players get more money? Don't like that excuse at all.

Yes, T2B, he's on pace for 100 points, but prior to that he put up 61 in 77gp and 69 in 82gp. Overpaying a guy in his contract year is a good way to screw up your franchise.

I'd give him 9-9.5m at the very, very most. And if he doesn't like it, oh well.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Yes, but Marner is not Matthews... Marner is not a 1C. He's a complimentary wing to your 1C a la Kane. Except he's not nearly as good as Kane, was, or is. If Marner gets 11m and term, Toronto might as well slam their door shut on a chance at the Cup, IMO. He's a damn good player, but he's not your 1C. And he's not deserving of 1C money.

I hear you. The market is what it is. When I saw the Matthews number, I figured Marner would get 11M and they’d trade Nylander. Marner is the Kane to Matthews Toews. If Kane is better, good for us. Kane signed his deal 4 years ago and still makes about as much as they do. That speaks to his greatness.

It doesn’t end there either. Tkachuk 10M+, Rantanen 10M+, buckle up.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

No, I don't expect that is what will happen. I expect the Toronto FO will overpay him. Matthews bent them over, now Marner will too.



Except Marner is not Kane. And he's not Matthews either. Everyone knows your 1C gets paid, including the players on the ice...

I mean, really? You think these guys are gonna get pissed off? What about all the hundreds of players making 2 or 3m? Do they get pissed because the better players get more money? Don't like that excuse at all.

Yes, he's on pace for 100 points as someone else said, but prior to that he put up 61 in 77gp and 69 in 82gp. Overpaying a guy in his contract year is a good way to screw up your franchise.

I'd give him 9-9.5m at the very, very most. And if he doesn't like it, oh well.

You think Toronto overpaid for Matthews? Franchise centers get 10-12 mil now. They paid a fair price for Auston. Where they screwed up was the term. They should’ve said if we’re going to pay you 11.5 then its an 8 year deal. Period.

 

[ChiHawks10]

You think Toronto overpaid for Matthews?

No, but based upon the guaranteed money, the term, and the cap hit, he bent them over seven ways from Sunday.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

No, but based upon the guaranteed money, the term, and the cap hit, he bent them over seven ways from Sunday.

The term was bad. No doubt.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

No, I don't expect that is what will happen. I expect the Toronto FO will overpay him. Matthews bent them over, now Marner will too.



Except Marner is not Kane. And he's not Matthews either. Everyone knows your 1C gets paid, including the players on the ice...

I mean, really? You think these guys are gonna get pissed off? What about all the hundreds of players making 2 or 3m? Do they get pissed because the better players get more money? Don't like that excuse at all.

Yes, he's on pace for 100 points as someone else said, but prior to that he put up 61 in 77gp and 69 in 82gp. Overpaying a guy in his contract year is a good way to screw up your franchise.

I'd give him 9-9.5m at the very, very most. And if he doesn't like it, oh well.

And the pen Marner and his agent are going to point to the Kane and Toews situation. In a way the Leafs are kind of screwed. You may not agree with it, but that’s the reality.

Marner is sitting at 1.2 points per game. Matthews at 1.15 points per game. Hell even Tavares is only at 1.1. Use the center excuse as much as you want, but Marner is a dynamic player. Marner will get 11 million or he’ll sit.

Where the Leafs went wrong is not having Hossa on a steal of a contract, which very few teams get to have.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Powers had an article today about Cat's potential contract and suggest 6 years at $7 million is about right for him, based on comparables.

Sounds about right to me, maybe a little closer to $8, but I think that's the range.

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying for months. Dude is going to get paid, and the Pastrnak deal is his absolute floor at this point.

 

[ChiHawks10]

You think Toronto overpaid for Matthews? Franchise centers get 10-12 mil now. They paid a fair price for Auston. Where they screwed up was the term. They should’ve said if we’re going to pay you 11.5 then its an 8 year deal. Period.

No, of course not. But based upon the term, cap hit, guaranteed money, and NMC his final season, he bent them over seven ways from Sunday.

The Leafs only get 1 UFA year out of Matthews. His cap hit is 11.6m. But 54.5m of his money is guaranteed, and only 3.65m is actual salary. He also can't be moved in the final year of the contract due to the NMC, so he has a good chance of walking at age 26/27 without Toronto receiving a single thing in compensation, as he can't even be moved at the deadline if Toronto knows his intentions are to leave the Leafs after his contract is up.

 

[ColdSteel2]

The term sucks, but he probably wanted 13M+ for 8 years, what are they going to say, no? You hold out too. They saved some face and went for 5 years and hope something changes in the CBA/cap 5 years from now.