How much to extend D-Cat and Strome?

[ClydeLee]

Schmaltz kicks in next year, what the hell do you think Arizona does there?? I would be interested to see what he gets since he did perform well there but got hurt. I think Arizona is in the same boat we are with having to sign Schmaltz and not knowing just how good he can play there long term. Not saying Strome is looking at what Schmaltz get, but if Schmaltz gets over $3 mil, look out folks this could get ugly.

I think he probably has to go for a single prove it year contract now.

 

[JaegerDice]

I’d offer Cat 7x7 and go from there. Strome’s a guy I’d wait on.

This is where I'm at.

If he's willing to give you, like <5mil for <5 years, then sure, do it. Otherwise, wait it out and make him prove he can do it over a longer period.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

7 mill? for DeBrincat?....okay, sure.

Reminder: with current pace (that he has kept since December),
DeBrincat will/would end up with 48 goals this season. THIS SEASON.
- 2 goals shy of 50...in his second season in the NHL

And that same pace would give him 80+points as well. THIS SEASON

The amount of progress the cat has made, who knows what numbers he produces next season.
- there is no way Alex DeBrincat is worth just 7 mill

 

[JaegerDice]

7 mill? for DeBrincat?....okay, sure.

Reminder: with current pace (that he has kept since December),
DeBrincat will/would end up with 48 goals this season. THIS SEASON.
- 2 goals shy of 50...in his second season in the NHL

And that same pace would give him 80+points as well. THIS SEASON

The amount of progress the cat has made, who knows what numbers he produces next season.
- there is no way Alex DeBrincat is worth just 7 mill

I love cat, but the BS backwards prejudices about his size that led to him being drafted in the 2nd round are the same BS backwards prejudices that will prevent him from making the money that a 6'0 guy with the exact same numbers would make.

It took an Art Ross for MSL to get paid fairly.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Its a complete different story how much Brinksy is comfortable to ask.
With his personality, i highly doubt money is in his 10 most important things in life list.
- managers though...those blood sucking leaches , hope DeBrincat's manager is someone with a soul

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I love cat, but the BS backwards prejudices about his size that led to him being drafted in the 2nd round are the same BS backwards prejudices that will prevent him from making the money that a 6'0 guy with the exact same numbers would make.

It took an Art Ross for MSL to get paid fairly.

Thats true (then). But.... i'm not 100% sold on that's the case today, time will tell.

 

[Pez68]

I love cat, but the BS backwards prejudices about his size that led to him being drafted in the 2nd round are the same BS backwards prejudices that will prevent him from making the money that a 6'0 guy with the exact same numbers would make.

It took an Art Ross for MSL to get paid fairly.

First off, St. Louis's career high before his Art Ross season was 70 points in 82 games. His history to that point, was 165 points in 282 games....

Next...he put up 60 points in 147 games on his ELC. Not exactly earth shattering numbers.

He signed a 2 year, $2.5M contract after his ELC... This was after a season where he scored 18 goals and had 22 assists. This is hardly a bad contract for 2002-2004...

2003-2004 he comes out of nowhere and puts up 94 points in 82 games. He loses a season to a lockout. After the lockout he gets a 6 year, $31.5M contract... This is after a 24% salary rollback from the lockout...

Jagr that season was the highest paid player at $8.36M, and St. Louis at that point was NOWHERE NEAR Jagr.

Long story short, what the f*** are you talking about???

 

[JaegerDice]

First off, St. Louis's career high before his Art Ross season was 70 points in 82 games. His history to that point, was 165 points in 282 games....

Next...he put up 60 points in 147 games on his ELC. Not exactly earth shattering numbers.

He signed a 2 year, $2.5M contract after his ELC... This was after a season where he scored 18 goals and had 22 assists. This is hardly a bad contract for 2002-2004...

2003-2004 he comes out of nowhere and puts up 94 points in 82 games. He loses a season to a lockout. After the lockout he gets a 6 year, $31.5M contract... This is after a 24% salary rollback from the lockout...

Jagr that season was the highest paid player at $8.36M, and St. Louis at that point was NOWHERE NEAR Jagr.

Long story short, what the **** are you talking about???

If you think the reigning Art Ross winner doesn't make more than that on a contract if he's 6'0 or over, I think you're nuts. Either that or he has a **** agent. *shrugs*

We'll see what happens. If you think Debrincat is going to demand or receive the roughly 8mil that a 30-40 goal scorer typically receives, then so be it. I don't think he'll get that much, though he'll deserve it.

 

[Pez68]

If you think the reigning Art Ross winner doesn't make more than that on a contract if he's 6'0 or over, I think you're nuts. Either that or he has a **** agent. *shrugs*

We'll see what happens. If you think Debrincat is going to demand or receive the roughly 8mil that a 30-40 goal scorer typically receives, then so be it. I don't think he'll get that much, though he'll deserve it.

It was ONE season of elite production.

Gaudreau is 5'9(lol, yeah right) and Monahan is 6'2. They entered the league at the same time. Monahan put up 125 points in 162 games after his rookie season(.77 PPG). Gaudreau put up 142 in 159(.89 PPG). Monahan scored 58 goals to Gaudreau's 54, and is a center. Guess who makes more money?????

This prejudice doesn't exist.

 

[JaegerDice]

It was ONE season of elite production.

Gaudreau is 5'9(lol, yeah right) and Monahan is 6'2. They entered the league at the same time. Monahan put up 125 points in 162 games after his rookie season(.77 PPG). Gaudreau put up 142 in 159(.89 PPG). Monahan scored 58 goals to Gaudreau's 54, and is a center. Guess who makes more money?????

This prejudice doesn't exist.

As I recall, Gaudreau wanted more (reasonable, given the points he was putting up) and held out up to training camp or just before, before ultimately caving to pressure to return.

EDIT: Yes, that happened.

https://www.tsn.ca/gaudreau-signs-six-year-40-5m-deal-with-flames-1.582739

 

[Pez68]

As I recall, Gaudreau wanted more (reasonable, given the points he was putting up) and held out up to training camp or just before, before ultimately caving to pressure to return.

And that matters how? He's making more than a player who is much bigger, and arguably just as important to Calgary's success.

By the way, Martin St. Louis was the 13th highest paid player in the NHL. Please tell me how, at that point in his career, he deserved to make more money than any of the guys above him on this list. He was almost perfectly compensated.

No.	Last Name	First Name	Pos.	Team	Salary
1	Jagr	Jaromir	RW	New York Rangers	$8,360,000.00
2	Yashin	Alexei	C	New York Islanders	$7,600,000.00
3	Lidstrom	Nicklas	D	Detroit Red Wings	$7,600,000.00
4	Tkachuk	Keith	LW	St. Louis Blues	$7,600,000.00
5	Iginla	Jarome	RW	Calgary Flames	$7,000,000.00
6	Sundin	Mats	C	Toronto Maple Leafs	$6,840,000.00
7	Khabibulin	Nikolai	G	Chicago Blackhawks	$6,750,000.00
8	Niedermayer	Scott	D	Anaheim Mighty Ducks	$6,750,000.00
9	Guerin	Bill	RW	Dallas Stars	$6,738,498.00
10	Sakic	Joe	C	Colorado Avalanche	$6,664,797.00
11	Thornton	Joe	C	San Jose Sharks	$6,660,000.00
12	Kovalchuk	Ilya	LW	Atlanta Thrashers	$6,500,000.00
13	St.Louis	Martin	RW	Tampa Bay Lightning	$6,500,000.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Edit: Aside from Yashin, who I believe signed that contract in 2002.

 

[JaegerDice]

And that matters how? He's making more than a player who is much bigger, and arguably just as important to Calgary's success.

By the way, Martin St. Louis was the 13th highest paid player in the NHL. Please tell me how, at that point in his career, he deserved to make more money than any of the guys above him on this list. He was almost perfectly compensated.

No.	Last Name	First Name	Pos.	Team	Salary
1	Jagr	Jaromir	RW	New York Rangers	$8,360,000.00
2	Yashin	Alexei	C	New York Islanders	$7,600,000.00
3	Lidstrom	Nicklas	D	Detroit Red Wings	$7,600,000.00
4	Tkachuk	Keith	LW	St. Louis Blues	$7,600,000.00
5	Iginla	Jarome	RW	Calgary Flames	$7,000,000.00
6	Sundin	Mats	C	Toronto Maple Leafs	$6,840,000.00
7	Khabibulin	Nikolai	G	Chicago Blackhawks	$6,750,000.00
8	Niedermayer	Scott	D	Anaheim Mighty Ducks	$6,750,000.00
9	Guerin	Bill	RW	Dallas Stars	$6,738,498.00
10	Sakic	Joe	C	Colorado Avalanche	$6,664,797.00
11	Thornton	Joe	C	San Jose Sharks	$6,660,000.00
12	Kovalchuk	Ilya	LW	Atlanta Thrashers	$6,500,000.00
13	St.Louis	Martin	RW	Tampa Bay Lightning	$6,500,000.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Edit: Aside from Yashin, who I believe signed that contract in 2002.

Because if he was a bigger guy, I don't think he has to hold out, I think they pay him the 8mil or close to it.

I believe I said in my post he got paid fairly after his Art Ross, right?

I'm pretty happy paying MSL more than Khabibulin and Guerin in 2006, especially given age, position (never pay a goalie that much of the cap percentage) and trajectory.

 

[Pez68]

Because if he was a bigger guy, I don't think he has to hold out, I think they pay him the 8mil or close to it.

I believe I said in my post he got paid fairly after his Art Ross, right?

I'm pretty happy paying MSL more than Khabibulin and Guerin in 2006.

HE DIDN'T EARN ANYTHING BEFORE THE ART ROSS. HE WAS NOT AN ELITE PLAYER UNTIL THAT SEASON. The season before that, he wasn't even top 20 in points. Your example absolutely sucks.

Guerin, like Yashin, signed that contract before the lockout. As a Blackhawks' fan, you should know why Khabibulin was paid what he was paid....

St. Louis had NO HISTORY OF ELITE PRODUCTION prior to the Art Ross.

 

[JaegerDice]

HE DIDN'T EARN ANYTHING BEFORE THE ART ROSS. HE WAS NOT AN ELITE PLAYER UNTIL THAT SEASON. The season before that, he wasn't even top 20 in points. Your example absolutely sucks.

Guerin, like Yashin, signed that contract before the lockout. As a Blackhawks' fan, you should know why Khabibulin was paid what he was paid....

Ok.

Again, if you think he's going to get the 8-9 million that a 30-40 goal scorer typically gets, then so be it.

I wouldn't be shocked if he got less.

 

[Pez68]

Ok.

Again, if you think he's going to get the 8-9 million that a 30-40 goal scorer typically gets, then so be it.

I wouldn't be shocked if he got less.

Which 30-40 goal scorers are you using as a baseline?

He won't, and shouldn't get $8-9M. Because that's too much for a one-dimensional restricted free agent.

 

[clydesdale line]

As a Blackhawks' fan, you should know why Khabibulin was paid what he was paid....

Maybe not that early in fandom he doesn't.

 

[Pez68]

Maybe not that early in fandom he doesn't.

Good point.

 

[JaegerDice]

Which 30-40 goal scorers are you using as a baseline?

He won't, and shouldn't get $8-9M. Because that's too much for a one-dimensional restricted free agent.

More recent contracts, since I believe the concept of the RFA bridge deal is all but obsolete.

 

[JaegerDice]

Maybe not that early in fandom he doesn't.

Oh, I was following the team when they signed the contract and knew then that it was a fantastic waste of money.

But I bet you guys were on board for the Huet signing too.

Cause money spent = good.

 

[Pez68]

More recent contracts, since I believe the concept of the RFA bridge deal is all but obsolete.

Such as who? If you're saying he's not going to make as much as a typical 30-40 goal scoring RFA winger gets, you have to have comparables for this argument. Who is the comparable??

 

[Pez68]

Oh, I was following the team when they signed the contract and knew then that it was a fantastic waste of money.

But I bet you guys were on board for the Huet signing too.

Cause money spent = good.

I didn't care about the Khabibulin contract because the team was terrible, and I knew what they were trying to do. Big name, fresh off a record setting, cup winning goalie performance... They were trying to fill seats. It didn't work.

I hated the Huet contract the minute it was signed.

 

[JaegerDice]

I didn't care about the Khabibulin contract because the team was terrible, and I knew what they were trying to do. Big name, fresh off a record setting, cup winning goalie performance... They were trying to fill seats. It didn't work.

I hated the Huet contract the minute it was signed.

Of course you did.

 

[JaegerDice]

Such as who? If you're saying he's not going to make as much as a typical 30-40 goal scoring RFA winger gets, you have to have comparables for this argument. Who is the comparable??

Comparables as far as cap%?

Tarasenko, for example, with 37 goals, signed at 7.5mil AAV in the '15 off-season when the cap was significantly lower. It's only increased from there.

Do I think he's going to get the 9.5 Kucherov got (with FL tax benefits accounted for)? No, because he doesn't have the raw point totals. And he's not going to get the 11 million Matthews got, because he's not a center.

Do I think he could get nine if he scores 40 as a 6ft+ guy? Yeah, I do. Do I think he'll get nine if he scores 40 at 5'6? No, I don't.

 

[Pez68]

Comparables as far as cap%?

Tarasenko, for example, signed at 7.5mil AAV when the cap was significantly lower.

Tarasenko had just come off of a top 10 scoring season...and missed 5 games. He signed that contract AFTER that top 10 scoring season. If DeBrincat hits top 10 in scoring in the NHL next year, by all means....pay him an equivalent salary. I'll even overlook the fact that Tarasenko is a much better two-way player.

 

[Malagahawks]

Is it possible to offer Cat a bridge deal since he is not an RFA until after the 20/21 season? Maybe something like 3/18M after the 19/20 season which lets him hit UFA at age 26 for a possible big payday?