Hockey Prospectus 2011 NHL Organization Rankings

[Bjindaho]

Btw, here is what Corey said on goaltending prospects (in particular, Lehner) in the comments section:

Quote didn't come with this. But his quote has been proven to be a lie. Varlamov was traded for a significant value. And the logic is incredibly flawed (ie teams have never traded a Lehner level prospect because they feared the value, therefore if you have one, he isn't less valuable because there won't be offers, but more valuable because Ottawa has no goalie in front of him and wouldn't be able to acquire him).

 

[Iamok]

These aren't prospect rankings guys, chill out.

EDIT: I mean he's not looking at the futures of prospects and really just focusing on how they did this past season.

 

[DaveG]

To place the Hurricaines ahead of Boston, Florida and Toronto based on the reasoning the author used in the article is just strange. Kadri had a better year than Bowman and Boychuk put together. Boston may not have many high end guys but they are loaded with solid NHL prospect.

Kadri had a great year, but to say he had a better year then Boychuk and Bowman combined is a bit absurd. Boychuk was actually one of the best players in the AHL all season and more productive then Kadri, as he should have been given that he's the more experienced prospect. It's the question of whether he'll be able to translate that to the NHL now.

Bowman definitely had an off year though.

 

[Erza Scarlet]

Kadri had a great year, but to say he had a better year then Boychuk and Bowman combined is a bit absurd. Boychuk was actually one of the best players in the AHL all season and more productive then Kadri, as he should have been given that he's the more experienced prospect. It's the question of whether he'll be able to translate that to the NHL now.

Bowman definitely had an off year though.

he played more games than Kadri in the AHL, of course he is going to be more productive. This is also Boychuk and Bowmans' 2nd pro season and Kadri's first. Charleotte had 7 scorers greater than the leading scorer for the Marlies. Leading scorer was Zigo for Marlies with 47 points and Kadri having 41 playing 20 or so less games. Would not be absurd to say that he would have put up over a point per game if he had the same supporting cast that Charleotte had.

 

[nobuddy]

I get where he's coming from when it comes to the Oilers. All of the Oilers first round picks are jumping right into the NHL. Therefore, your prospects pool is mostly second rounders and beyond. However, that doesn't place them 16th.

Florida deserves more respect. Detroit deserves less. Detroit is very good at developing talent but that doesn't mean that at this stage the guys they pick 20th overall year after year are better than other teams like Florida who are stocking up on elite top 10 talent.

Also, Carolina at #6 is just . I like Dalpe just fine but Boychuk and Bowman have had an up and down year. (See this article http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/13108/ahl_affiliate_for_carolina_hurricanes_full_of_prospects_vying_for_nhl/

To place the Hurricaines ahead of Boston, Florida and Toronto based on the reasoning the author used in the article is just strange. Kadri had a better year than Bowman and Boychuk put together. Boston may not have many high end guys but they are loaded with solid NHL prospect.

I strongly disagree on this ranking.

Ryan Murphy, Justin Faulk, and Brian Dumoulin are one of the best trios of defensive prospects in the whole NHL.

Dalpe is a stud, Boychuk still has a lot of potential, Bowman is developing slowly, but still will probably be a solid NHLer. Rask is, as mentioned, a project but if he pans out he should be a really good player.

It's a pretty solid pipeline we've got at the moment.

 

[Strong Island]

Quote didn't come with this. But his quote has been proven to be a lie. Varlamov was traded for a significant value. And the logic is incredibly flawed (ie teams have never traded a Lehner level prospect because they feared the value, therefore if you have one, he isn't less valuable because there won't be offers, but more valuable because Ottawa has no goalie in front of him and wouldn't be able to acquire him).

First off, you're misusing the word "lie". He's not trying to mislead people, it's just his opinion.

All he is saying is due to the massive amount of goaltending talent available for cheap, having a top goaltending prospect is not as valuable as having a top forward/defense prospect. Yes Varlamov was traded for a lot of value, but Vokoun (a better goalie) was subsequently signed for peanuts.

To the posters dumping on Detroit's prospect pool I suggest analyzing their individual prospect performances and not get hung up on draft position or how "highly regarded" their development system is. They have an outstanding group of prospects any way you slice it.

 

[Brock Anton]

Also, Carolina at #6 is just . I like Dalpe just fine but Boychuk and Bowman have had an up and down year. (See this article http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/13108/ahl_affiliate_for_carolina_hurricanes_full_of_prospects_vying_for_nhl/

To place the Hurricaines ahead of Boston, Florida and Toronto based on the reasoning the author used in the article is just strange. Kadri had a better year than Bowman and Boychuk put together. Boston may not have many high end guys but they are loaded with solid NHL prospect.

I strongly disagree on this ranking.

So Kadri being "better" (which is very arguable) than Boychuk and Bowman combined makes the Leafs pool better than Carolina's? Should I bring to your attention that Zach Boychuk was clearly the best player for the Checkers this past season?

Boychuk - 60GP 22G 43A 65PTS +4

The reasoning is pretty spot on, we had very good depth going into the draft and then added Murphy and took a shot on Rask, if he puts it all together could have the most potential out of anyone in our system. We're loaded on defense and boast a fairly solid forward group.

While #6 may be a little high, we should definitely be a top 10 group.
Zac Dalpe
Zach Boychuk
Drayson Bowman
Riley Nash
Victor Rask
Justin Shugg
Chris Terry
Oskar Osala

Ryan Murphy
Justin Faulk
Brian Dumoulin
Bobby Sanguinetti
Austin Levi
Mark Alt
Danny Biega
Keegan Lowe

Mike Murphy
Justin Peters

Out of Florida, Toronto and Boston, only Florida should be ahead of us.

 

[Sevanston]

Calling it a bad list because you disagree with it?

Poor Corey. His lists are bad because he has his own opinions. What a terrible thing.

 

[Neatman]

It's ranking Prospect SYSTEMS, not prospects in general. Of course Edmonton or Florida would lead that list, but he's talking about the development process and when you're drafting top 3 years in a row, then it doesn't really take as hard work as if you drafted a PK Subban in the 2nd round, even though Montreal is struggling.

I think you're off. Everything he writes suggests he is ranking teams on the PROSPECTS in their systems. He uses the word system to describe the players in the pipe.

Rankings are completely lost.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

Well this list is certainly interesting as he clearly has a very different opinion on prospect quality than anyone else. Who knows, a few years from now he may look like a genius.

But it seems strange that everyone Detroit drafts is a "top end talent".

 

[MHJS]

Worst ranking I've ever seen. Terrible.

Florida is easily #1 (Markström, Huberdeau, Gudbranson, Bjugstad, Howden, Grimaldi, Dadonov+++, sick depth at every position). Any list without Florida at 1st, is a terrible imo. And it's not because I'm a Cats fan, but look at those prospects I mentioned, and there are many I left of that list). Sens should be 2nd, and maybe Blues or Oilers at 3rd.

"9. Florida Panthers: Third overall pick in 2010 Erik Gudbranson did not look good in the least this season and was more representative of a physical project than a cornerstone of the franchise. Getting Jonathan Huberdeau and Rocco Grimaldi was a tremendous injection of talent, while Drew Shore taking a step forward this year also helps."

Just his comments say enough. Say Guds had took a step back, and not even mentioning Markström. He ranks Detroit first because they are know to draft well, so it's "safer" for the future.

Gudbranson definitely took a step back this season. Undisciplined play, poor defence, and a horrible temper made him almost embarrassing to watch some nights. I was an enormous fan of him previously, but after this year I'm happy he'll be gone from Kingston.

 

[MNWild1096]

Fine with Detroit being number one as I do believe they have some great prospects...some with elite talent, but may never pan out. Find the Islanders prospects to be a bit overrated.

As for the team I care about...Im fine with the Wild being 13th, but I feel like people over-look our prospect pool by a large margin. Minnesota HAD a horrendous crop of prospects for a while but in the last 2 years they have come a long way, in the offensive department. D needs work but they definitely have a couple studs at forward and very underrated guys like Zucker and Larsson.

 

[deanmoriarty]

Garbage list

 

[Analyzer*]

I agree that Montréal's prospect pool is pretty week, but hab fans are more excited about Alexander Avitsin than Arron Palushaj.

Avitsin has size, speed and much more talent than Palushaj.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

So Kadri being "better" (which is very arguable) than Boychuk and Bowman combined makes the Leafs pool better than Carolina's? Should I bring to your attention that Zach Boychuk was clearly the best player for the Checkers this past season?



The reasoning is pretty spot on, we had very good depth going into the draft and then added Murphy and took a shot on Rask, if he puts it all together could have the most potential out of anyone in our system. We're loaded on defense and boast a fairly solid forward group.

While #6 may be a little high, we should definitely be a top 10 group.
Zac Dalpe
Zach Boychuk
Drayson Bowman
Riley Nash
Victor Rask
Justin Shugg
Chris Terry
Oskar Osala

Ryan Murphy
Justin Faulk
Brian Dumoulin
Bobby Sanguinetti
Austin Levi
Mark Alt
Danny Biega
Keegan Lowe

Mike Murphy
Justin Peters

Out of Florida, Toronto and Boston, only Florida should be ahead of us.

I'll explain myself I bit more here. I did exaggerate a bit on the 'combined' remark. However, like it was stated earlier in this thread Bowman and Boychuk are in their second pro season as Kadri is only in his first. I know Kadri and Toronto prospects get a bad rap around these boards but I still appreciate what they bring to the table. I'm not ripping Carolina system, i just don't believe that they are #6 more like 9-12 range.

For every player you say is good on Carolina I can say the same for Boston IMO. You guys got Murphy, they have Hamilton, i can go on but I don't want to make this post longer than it needs to be. I agree that maybe the argument for Toronto is a bit weaker however I think Toronto and Carolina are fairly close in terms of talent. Kadri, Colborne, Gardnier are good prospects. If Aulie and Reimer still count, you can't argue their success at the AHL and NHL level. Then add guys like D'Amigo and Frattin and you already got a pretty good list going already. I favored Toronto's prospects over Carolina but the margin is close in my eyes.

 

[Jayevs]

I respect his opinion, hes wrong, but each to their own

 

[s7ark]

Calling it a bad list because you disagree with it?

Poor Corey. His lists are bad because he has his own opinions. What a terrible thing.

Are you saying people can't have a dumb opinion? Cause I'd point to this ranking as evidence otherwise...

 

[Freudian]

Their draft rankings were quite different from most others, so why wouldn't their organization rankings be equally different?

 

[ponder]

If you read the intro he really is more or less grading prospect pools, it's an article about the prospects themselves, not about about the scouts, coaches etc.

It's also totally laughable. Detroit 1st? That's insane. Especially with teams like Colorado down at 22nd, the Avs have Landeskog, Hishon, Siemens, Elliott, Barrie, Pickard, etc., their prospects absolute **** on Detroit's. If the Avs came to Detroit and said "we'll trade all of our prospects for all of your prospects," Detroit would pull the trigger IN A SECOND, yet somehow Detroit are 1st, and the Avs 22nd? These rankings make zero sense.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Gudbranson definitely took a step back this season. Undisciplined play, poor defence, and a horrible temper made him almost embarrassing to watch some nights. I was an enormous fan of him previously, but after this year I'm happy he'll be gone from Kingston.

Gudbranson made huge postive strides this year, but If you say so.

 

[Sevanston]

Are you saying people can't have a dumb opinion? Cause I'd point to this ranking as evidence otherwise...

I'm saying prospect rankings are a matter of personal preference.

It's why great NHL players can get drafted in the late rounds, and why "top prospects" can end up as busts.

Calling his list bad just means you see things differently than he does. It doesn't give either of you a higher chance of being right in the end.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is, "that's just like...your opinion, man"

 

[txomisc]

i hate to be the my team is underrated guy but geez. There is no way Calgary has a better prospect pool than Dallas.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Btw, here is what Corey said on goaltending prospects (in particular, Lehner) in the comments section:

Quote:
Goalie prospects have minimal impact on their organization's ranking due to their lessened value in the NHL marketplace. Lehner is an above-average goaltending prospect, but he's not a world-killer (despite his playoff performance this year in a small sample) so there's not a whole lot of value there.

>The most amazing thing to me is he wrote this just after last year's 2cnd worst team gave up their next year's #1 pick for Varlamov.

I also can't understand why a prospect would only have value as a trade asset. How about Lehner's value as the likely future #1 goalie for the Senators?

 

[HuGo Sham]

I agree that Montréal's prospect pool is pretty week, but hab fans are more excited about Alexander Avitsin than Arron Palushaj.

Avitsin has size, speed and much more talent than Palushaj.

leblanc? habs graduated desharnais, white, eller and pacioretty...forward pool is thin...i expect timmins to draft only forwards next year

 

[Benttheknee]

The guy is pretty bold in his opinions. Detriot at number 1 is really wierd. His lists Tomas Jurco in their grouping, which is fine I suppose, but when he talks about the Senators, he doesn`t bother to mention the three guys that they drafted before Tomas Jurco. Oh, and he considers Lehner to be an above average goaltending prospect. Kinda like Pogge I suppose

You have to wonder how he manages to keep a straight face