Hockey Prospectus 2011 NHL Organization Rankings

[Abyss]

From his draft rankings:

11. Alexander Khokhlachev, Center, Windsor-OHL*
12. Dougie Hamilton, Defense, Niagara-OHL*

That aside Pronman has developed a drafting strategy or policy that's biased towards the puck possession game. If you don't have speed, vision, puck handling, hockey IQ and precise passes, it should hurt you tremendously at the NHL level. The Detroit Red-Wings are known to draft with that very strategy in mind so to me it makes sense that Pronman has them at number 1. He might not have stated this outright but I believe his rankings are at least somewhat based on efficiency, which is where detroit really shines.

but post draft when one goes top 10 and the other 2nd round, that doesn't change his view on that player at all? Should he really even be above Caron or Knight or Spooner as the Bruins best forward prospect?

 

[Strong Island]

but post draft when one goes top 10 and the other 2nd round, that doesn't change his view on that player at all? Should he really even be above Caron or Knight or Spooner as the Bruins best forward prospect?

If he changed his rankings based on where prospects were drafted wouldn't that make his original rankings disingenuous?

 

[R S]

I'd take Murphy, Dumoulin, and Faulk over those three without thinking twice.

 

[Sevanston]

my last thought on this...no offense Corey, you may want to consider a new profession. Your entitled to your opinion, but when most of the thread isn't even arguing with each other, but rather making points and correcting you, and rival fan bases are agreeing...You are definitely wrong.

Your entitled to your opinion but wow...hockey doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I hope Landeskog has a dynamite season and it forces you to re-consider your work, or at least your vision of it.

Because in a down economy, obviously the most logical thing to do is quit your job because some guys on an internet message board disagree with you.

 

[Analyzer*]

I'd take Murphy, Dumoulin, and Faulk over those three without thinking twice.

Not sure if serious...

 

[SouthFLFan79]

9. Florida Panthers: Third overall pick in 2010 Erik Gudbranson did not look good in the least this season and was more representative of a physical project than a cornerstone of the franchise

I dont believe this writer ever watched Gudbranson play last year at all


this write up is full of crap

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think he has the Hawks just right

Dont have the elite blue chip prospects like some other organizations but we have prospect depth (Ordered by position and year drafted not ability)

LW Kyle Beach (2008 1st)
LW Phillip Paradis (2009 1st) (Acq via trade)
LW Jeremy Morin (2009 2nd)
LW Ludvig Rensfeldt (2010 2nd)
LW Phillip Danault (2011 1st)
LW Brandon Saad (2011 2nd)
C Brandon Pirri (2009 2nd)
C Byron Froese (2009 4th)
C Marcus Kruger (2009 5th)
C Kevin Hayes (2010 1st)
C Joakim Nordstrom (2010 3rd)
C Rob Flick (2010 4th)
C Mark McNeill (2011 1st)
RW Igor Makarov (2006 2nd)
RW Jimmy Hayes (2008 2nd)
RW Ben Smith (2008 6th)
RW Maxim Shalunov (2011 4th)
D Joe Lavin (2007 5th)
D Shawn Lalonde (2008 3rd)
D Justin Holl (2010 2nd)
D Stephen Johns (2010 2nd)
D Adam Clendening (2011 2nd)
D Michael Paliotta (2011 3rd)
D Klas Dahlbeck (2011 3rd)
G Alexander Salak (Acq via trade)
G Kent Simpson (2010 2nd)
G Mac Carruth (2010 7th)

We do have a dropoff at RW (Our biggest weakness) but with Kane/Toews/Frolik it sorta doesn't matter for near future

But overall the Hawks have some pretty good prospects with quality NHL chances of course many wont make NHL but with this much quality depth in prospect pool there should be some good ones

LW/C Prospect depth for Hawks is matchable to any other team in league IMO.

 

[Joey Moss]

I'm sorry but that is just brutal..

 

[DaveG]

Not sure if serious...

I know I'll be called crazy, but I'm with him on this to an extent. I think it's pretty close with a slight edge to the Canes. But that edge is also because I was much higher on Murphy then I was on Siemens heading into the draft.

 

[JLo217]

I know I'll be called crazy, but I'm with him on this to an extent. I think it's pretty close with a slight edge to the Canes. But that edge is also because I was much higher on Murphy then I was on Siemens heading into the draft.

I'll give you Murphy over Siemens, but it goes to show you how shallow this draft is when the Avs were able to grab Stefan Elliot late in the second round and Tyson Barrie early in the third round, both of which I would take over Murphy in a heart beat.

Elliot and Barrie have a much more rounded game than Murphy, and still put in huge numbers, both have also won defensemen of the year in there respective leagues. I'd say the Avs 3 while it may not be better at the NHL level yet, I'd rank them just a bit higher. That's leaving out Chouinard and Gaunce as well.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

I'll give you Murphy over Siemens, but it goes to show you how shallow this draft is when the Avs were able to grab Stefan Elliot late in the second round and Tyson Barrie early in the third round, both of which I would take over Murphy in a heart beat.

Elliot and Barrie have a much more rounded game than Murphy, and still put in huge numbers, both have also won defensemen of the year in there respective leagues. I'd say the Avs 3 while it may not be better at the NHL level yet, I'd rank them just a bit higher. That's leaving out Chouinard and Gaunce as well.

Elliot and Barrie were drafted in 2009. They have two years of development over Murphy and others. Due to the nature of the development curve and the age of competition relative to themselves they are playing, Barrie and Elliot will always look at this current stage better than 2011 draftees. What is likely to be seen this year is Elliot and Barrie will have to make jump likely to the AHL. I'd be incredibly suprised if both didn't at some point have struggles and setbacks. It's pretty classic that 19 yr old prospects are always the most overhyped age class and that we've seen many times, these 19 yr old kids go in to the AHL and suddenly thinks are not quite as promising.

This isn't to say Elliot and Barrie aren't excellent prospects ; they are.

Looking at Chicago, man have they stockpiled Depth. So many solid prospects. However there really is a lack of any significant higher end talent in that system so it's difficult to rank them particularly high. Considering however that they have the main pieces on their NHL roster, they should in theory have a tremendous supply of cheap good depth to re-roll for a few years which is invaluable.

 

[DaveG]

I'll give you Murphy over Siemens, but it goes to show you how shallow this draft is when the Avs were able to grab Stefan Elliot late in the second round and Tyson Barrie early in the third round, both of which I would take over Murphy in a heart beat.

Elliot and Barrie have a much more rounded game than Murphy, and still put in huge numbers, both have also won defensemen of the year in there respective leagues. I'd say the Avs 3 while it may not be better at the NHL level yet, I'd rank them just a bit higher. That's leaving out Chouinard and Gaunce as well.

Agree to disagree on Elliot or Barrie over Murphy, though I do think Elliot makes a good run at it and as you said is better defensively.

On the other end of that though is that the Canes were able to draft Faulk and Dumoulin in consecutive 2nd rounds, both of whom have been dominant players on the college level already. Faulk was a Freshman All American last year and was the US's best dman at the WJCs as an 18 year old. Dumoulin was first team All American this year and was voted the best defensive defenseman in Hockey East. The year before he was Freshman All American as well as All Frozen Four.

There's also Biega and Levi in the system that both had huge years last year. One thing's for sure, I doubt either Colorado or Carolina is hurting much for defensive prospects right now.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

my last thought on this...no offense Corey, you may want to consider a new profession. Your entitled to your opinion, but when most of the thread isn't even arguing with each other, but rather making points and correcting you, and rival fan bases are agreeing...You are definitely wrong.

Your entitled to your opinion but wow...hockey doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I hope Landeskog has a dynamite season and it forces you to re-consider your work, or at least your vision of it.

I don't see how you can say this until a few years from now.

Spend some time looking through old threads in the Prospects forum and you'll see that the "general consensus" isn't too accurate either.

He had Landeskog and Siemens way lower than anyone else had them, so it's not surprising that he ranks the Avs lower than everyone else does. It's not he like decided that after the draft, so at least he's sticking to his opinion.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I love how we have the 09-10 Calder winner, 3 straight ahl rookie of the years, lead the nhl in homegrown players and yet armchair scouts on hf and elsewhere always rank the Sabres in the bottom half

Sabres are top 5 in prospects easy.

 

[nobuddy]

Not sure if serious...

When I say "without thinking twice" I don't mean it's not close. I mean that I see a clear advantage in favor of Carolina's trio. Murphy is arguably the best offensive defenseman to come out of the O over the last decade. As DaveG said, Faulk and Dumoulin both had monster years in college. Faulk quarterbacked Duluth's powerplay which was absolutely lethal, and Dumoulin ended up first team All-American.

Barrie, Siemens, and Elliot are great defensive prospects, but given the option I'd take Carolina's trio.

 

[Pietraneglo222]

but post draft when one goes top 10 and the other 2nd round, that doesn't change his view on that player at all? Should he really even be above Caron or Knight or Spooner as the Bruins best forward prospect?

I don't speak for him at all but if you ask me he's there to offer original analysis. He's not there to defer all judgment to the NHL clubs and the aggregated consensus. The draft really proves nothing, it's just a bunch of people with interpretations of what a good hockey player is. It's not a science just yet.

 

[JLo217]

Agree to disagree on Elliot or Barrie over Murphy, though I do think Elliot makes a good run at it and as you said is better defensively.

On the other end of that though is that the Canes were able to draft Faulk and Dumoulin in consecutive 2nd rounds, both of whom have been dominant players on the college level already. Faulk was a Freshman All American last year and was the US's best dman at the WJCs as an 18 year old. Dumoulin was first team All American this year and was voted the best defensive defenseman in Hockey East. The year before he was Freshman All American as well as All Frozen Four.

There's also Biega and Levi in the system that both had huge years last year. One thing's for sure, I doubt either Colorado or Carolina is hurting much for defensive prospects right now.

All good points! With our signings this offseason, I like that we have the prospects we have as PMD's in the docket. I'm not saying your back end prospects aren't looking good. I'd love to have them in Colorado's pool. I am more familiar with our prospects though. Both teams should have great defensive systems in place sooner than later!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

my last thought on this...no offense Corey, you may want to consider a new profession. Your entitled to your opinion, but when most of the thread isn't even arguing with each other, but rather making points and correcting you, and rival fan bases are agreeing...You are definitely wrong.

Your entitled to your opinion but wow...hockey doesn't seem to be your strong suit. I hope Landeskog has a dynamite season and it forces you to re-consider your work, or at least your vision of it.

So you say "no offense" and then proceed to be downright offensive?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

9. Florida Panthers: Third overall pick in 2010 Erik Gudbranson did not look good in the least this season and was more representative of a physical project than a cornerstone of the franchise

I dont believe this writer ever watched Gudbranson play last year at all


this write up is full of crap

I was going to comment the same thing. Gudbranson had some rough patches, but to say he didn't look good in the least strikes me as someone catching one game where he looked bad, and attributing that to the other 43 games in his season.

 

[Corey Pronman]

I was going to comment the same thing. Gudbranson had some rough patches, but to say he didn't look good in the least strikes me as someone catching one game where he looked bad, and attributing that to the other 43 games in his season.

That was actually based on what I had heard from multiple NHL scouts.

 

[BigEyedPhish]

I can't believe Detroit is #1, I realize their Prospect pool is good, but I do not think it is GREAT, and their rankings rely wayy to much just on speculation and history..

IMO that will seem biased.. I think in the future, Ottawa will be the "Model" for a rebuilding team.. Making the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 seasons, while having one of the biggest prospect pool turn arounds (if not the biggest) in the last 3-4 seasons, is pretty good (while the whole time not having ONE top 5 pick) Yes the playoff stints weren't successful, but people, it IS getting into the playoffs.

Ottawa has shown that you don't need to finish to bottum 5 for a few years to build a future great team. I don't think any team in the league has a better defensive prospect pool than us, and our forward pool is rediculously deep...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That was actually based on what I had heard from multiple NHL scouts.

Word for word? That was their *exact* quote, or are you paraphrasing their thoughts on him into your own words? Because I find that hard to believe they think his *entire season* was unimpressive.

He got off to a slow start (likely the disappointment of being sent back to junior after feeling like he made the NHL), and he ran into discipline issues with a couple of borderline hits and his run-in with the coaching staff. But he also produced at a 19 goal, 53 point pace, upped his physical game, and did well for himself at the WJC. He was also voted as the second best defensive defenseman in the Eastern Conference in the coaches' poll. Hardly what I'd call "not looking good in the least this season".

If that's what the scouts you talked to thought, then I'm curious how often *they* watched him as well to come to that conclusion, and how they can ignore the strides he made in his offensive game, the solid performance at the WJC, and the fact that the coaches whose teams play against him every night deemed his performance good enough to rank him as second best defensively in the conference.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

I can't believe Detroit is #1, I realize their Prospect pool is good, but I do not think it is GREAT, and their rankings rely wayy to much just on speculation and history..

IMO that will seem biased.. I think in the future, Ottawa will be the "Model" for a rebuilding team.. Making the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 seasons, while having one of the biggest prospect pool turn arounds (if not the biggest) in the last 3-4 seasons, is pretty good (while the whole time not having ONE top 5 pick) Yes the playoff stints weren't successful, but people, it IS getting into the playoffs.

Ottawa has shown that you don't need to finish to bottum 5 for a few years to build a future great team. I don't think any team in the league has a better defensive prospect pool than us, and our forward pool is rediculously deep...

You're still building, and you don't know if that building is actually tenable yet. I'd refrain from suggesting so until actual proven otherwise, or have the lessons learnt from Columbus and Florida in the past ten years not been heeded?

 

[Philoops]

Teams with the best prospects article

What are your thoughts on the rankings? Link:http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1012

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I don't agree with where Detroit or Carolina are. I'm not at all enamoured with Carolina's top prospects (think they should be in the teens) and while Detroit may have some top-end prospects, I think they're too risky (boom/bust) for Detroit to be considered the team with the deepest/bestest prospect pool.