Proposal: Hamonic/Hamilton type deal for the Leafs (1st/2nd/2nd)

[Fogelhund]

That does appear to be the master plan, and rightly so imho. If Dermott and Liljegren continue to develop, and Zaitsev has a rebound season, we could have a decent top 4 not too far down the road...and that's factoring in the departures of Gardiner and Hainsey.

Not to mention, potentially Sandin (LHD), Rasanen (RHD) and Durzi (RHD) in 2-3 seasons...

 

[Starat327]

VERY difficult to predict a trade like this, lots of external factors.



Prospects and picks are great but Leafs are realistically 1-2 defenseman from a Cup. I think we can open the wallet a bit.



Could the Flyers take back Carrick in the deal? Not that Carrick is bad but it just helps with salary balances so we don't get hit with overages. He has 1 year left at $1.3M

Salary isnt an issue on our side. If it's just one year we could make it work.

 

[Stickpucker]

No deal to be made just go see what comes of next season the team is young.

 

[Liferleafer]

My opinion; The Leafs should be playoff bound, without making any further changes. Let the current players, and prospects grow this year, and see what we have. Zaitsev should rebound, we don't know what we have with Ozihganov, Carrick in limited usage, had great stats in the past, and we have to see how Liljegren develops over the year..... It's possible that we already have our answers. It might be best to keep the picks, so that we have a pipeline of ELC cost controlled type players, when our non-core need payment increases, that we can't afford.

Situations might change for other teams as the year goes by as well... maybe a Tanev becomes more available. Maybe Pesce does.....

At this point, the prices on players that might be marginally available, isn't going to drop. If such deals haven't been done by now... let's just drop the puck, and see what we've got.

I won't argue, but this thread has produced 2 pretty reasonable things IMO, Gudas and Stone for a 2nd or 3rd? That's pretty decent.

 

[Volica]

Just go get Justin Faulk, Don Waddell is the GM, Don Waddell, with the exception of the Savard, and Slava Kozlov trades He's lost every other major trade he's ever made, you can probably get Justin Faulk for next to nothing because Don Waddell is an awful GM

Would be my thinking.
A first or some junk could easily get that done IMO.

 

[tony d]

I think Faulk to Toronto could be done this way. Maybe toss in Kapanen as well to make it more fairer. So Kapanen, Sandin for Faulk? Or does Toronto still have to add here?

 

[Fogelhund]

I won't argue, but this thread has produced 2 pretty reasonable things IMO, Gudas and Stone for a 2nd or 3rd? That's pretty decent.

I'm not sure I'd concur on Stone, he's just not a guy I'd want to add, and I'm not sure he adds much. Gudas on the other hand, if the cost was a second, that's a deal that I'd seriously consider at this point.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think Faulk to Toronto could be done this way. Maybe toss in Kapanen as well to make it more fairer. So Kapanen, Sandin for Faulk? Or does Toronto still have to add here?

I don't think adding Faulk does much for us, other than add another RHD to the system. His points have dropped off the past four years, to 12 even strength points last year. He's a puck mover, but not much different than a Right Handed Gardiner. To me, it's more of the same, of the player we've already got. I think we need a stability RHD. Someone with a bit of size, who can play defensively, and cover up for our offensive guys. Not necessarily the traditional slow D, but someone who can skate, but be a compliment to what we have, not more of the same.

 

[Captain97]

If the habs embrace the tank/rebuild Petry retained down to 4-4.5 for a first and 2 seconds/decent prospects could probably be done.

 

[Habsfan0203]

Maybe a three teams deal is the solution:

Mtl: dermott-liljgren-kyrou

Tor: parayko-paccioretty-schlemko

St-Louis: nylander-petry-2nd round pick

Mtl gets good rebuild items, tor gets a solid top 4 defenseman and a 30 goals left wing to replace nylander and st-Louis gets an excellent rh wing and a top 4 defenseman to replace parayko

 

[Volica]

Maybe a three teams deal is the solution:

Mtl: dermott-liljgren-kyrou

Tor: parayko-paccioretty-schlemko

St-Louis: nylander-petry-2nd round pick

Mtl gets good rebuild items, tor gets a solid top 4 defenseman and a 30 goals left wing to replace nylander and st-Louis gets an excellent rh wing and a top 4 defenseman to replace parayko

St. Louis gets nice and bent over here

 

[Martin Skoula]

Maybe a three teams deal is the solution:

Mtl: dermott-liljgren-kyrou

Tor: parayko-paccioretty-schlemko

St-Louis: nylander-petry-2nd round pick

Mtl gets good rebuild items, tor gets a solid top 4 defenseman and a 30 goals left wing to replace nylander and st-Louis gets an excellent rh wing and a top 4 defenseman to replace parayko

You actually think Patch and Petry gets you basically 3 1sts? Montreal is completely unnecessary in this deal, much rather just deal with St Louis directly.

 

[Dan403]

Part of the problem here for the leafs is that the Hamilton and Hamonic trades didn't just happen wily nilly. The teams had to trade those players - Hamonic needed to live near Western Canada for family reasons and Hamilton because of locker-room disharmony. Rarely do even rebuilding teams just voluntarily trade away top 4 d for futures. So I think it is more about waiting patiently for the right opportunity.

And hope that Treliving doesn't beat you to the punch!!

 

[Liferleafer]

Maybe a three teams deal is the solution:

Mtl: dermott-liljgren-kyrou

Tor: parayko-paccioretty-schlemko

St-Louis: nylander-petry-2nd round pick

Mtl gets good rebuild items, tor gets a solid top 4 defenseman and a 30 goals left wing to replace nylander and st-Louis gets an excellent rh wing and a top 4 defenseman to replace parayko

No thanks. And this goes against the idea of the thread.

 

[Randy Randerson]

If the habs embrace the tank/rebuild Petry retained down to 4-4.5 for a first and 2 seconds/decent prospects could probably be done.

that's a deal that I would do from the Leaf's side. I know teams are usually apprehensive about dealing in their own division, but if the Habs are going for a scorched earth rebuild then it might be beneficial to strengthen divisional teams for the next little while - more likely losses against them so probably helps draft position, and more likely that those division rivals spend futures/take on cap commitments in the short term to try to win cups which probably weakens them a bit when the Habs are good again

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Just go get Justin Faulk, Don Waddell is the GM, Don Waddell, with the exception of the Savard, and Slava Kozlov trades He's lost every other major trade he's ever made, you can probably get Justin Faulk for next to nothing because Don Waddell is an awful GM

Heatley for Hossa was a loss?

You can’t really criticize the Hossa and Kovalchuk deadline trades. He couldn’t just say “fine, we’ll just keep him” as both weren’t going to re-sign and looked poised walk as a UFAs. He had no choice but to take the best offer.

The assets he gave up for Tkachuk were pretty standard for a player of his ilk.

Carolina got the best player in the Hamilton trade and the value was fine.

He wanted a 1st (+) for Skinner and got what should be a high 2nd, a 3rd, a 6th and solid prospect. The organization shouldn’t have been that desperate to move Skinner, but it wasn’t a bad return for an impending UFA with an NMC in a relatively deep market with some real flaws to his game.

That basically leaves Coburn for Zhitnik. That’s an indefensible trade, all things considered. Should one truly horrendous deal shouldn’t define a GM in the way you’ve defined him?

The answer being yes wouldn't surprise me. This is HF. George McPhee is still an idiot for a lot of the board, solely for the Erat for Forsberg trade. Reflecting on it, I don’t know why I even bothered to write this out.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Heatley for Hossa was a loss?

You can’t really criticize the Hossa and Kovalchuk deadline trades. He couldn’t just say “fine, we’ll just keep him” as both weren’t going to re-sign and looked poised walk as a UFAs. He had no choice but to take the best offer.

The assets he gave up for Tkachuk were pretty standard for a player of his ilk.

Carolina got the best player in the Hamilton trade and the value was fine.

He wanted a 1st (+) for Skinner and got what should be a high 2nd, a 3rd, a 6th and solid prospect. The organization shouldn’t have been that desperate to move Skinner, but it wasn’t a bad return for an impending UFA with an NMC in a relatively deep market with some real flaws to his game.

That basically leaves Coburn for Zhitnik. That’s an indefensible trade, all things considered. Should one truly horrendous deal shouldn’t define a GM in the way you’ve defined him?

The answer being yes wouldn't surprise me. This is HF. George McPhee is still an idiot for a lot of the board, solely for the Erat for Forsberg trade. Reflecting on it, I don’t know why I even bothered to write this out.

Yes Heatley for Hossa was a loss, perhaps only a slight one but a loss nonetheless, Heatley was arguably the best goalscorer in the game for a brief time.

Hamilton would be a win, if it was Hamilton for Hanafin, but it's not Lindhom and ferland are in that deal too, that's why Calgary wins that deal.

He got nothing for Kari Lethenion

He gave up the pick that was Daniel Sedin.

The Coburn deal you mentioned

Remember he didn't just trade Hossa at the deadline Dupis went too.

Skinner was given away

They made a bad deal for Kovy even by rental standards

Waddell's track record is awful

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Yes Heatley for Hossa was a loss, perhaps only a slight one but a loss nonetheless, Heatley was arguably the best goalscorer in the game for a brief time.

And Hossa hit 100 points in Atlanta. One will get inducted into the HOF, the other will buy a ticket.

Hamilton would be a win, if it was Hamilton for Hanafin, but it's not Lindhom and ferland are in that deal too, that's why Calgary wins that deal.

Obviously, you think the gap between Lindholm and Ferland is larger than Hamilton and Hanifin. Perhaps that’s fair. Carolina also got Fox in the deal, who if signed, closes whatever gap exists and potentially creates one the other way.

He got nothing for Kari Lethenion

Moving forward with Pavalec and Lehtonen was not realistic. Lehtonen had one RFA year left before free agency and likely doesn’t re-sign long-term to be a platoon goalie or backup. It was the right time for both sides to move on. That’s what the market had to offer. Lehtonen’s stats had never been great; he wasn’t that valuable at that point.

He gave up the pick that was Daniel Sedin.

That’s a criticism of the pick, not the trade. That’s a different discussion entirely. He was ultimately responsible for years of bad drafts that killed Atlanta on the ice, and arguably off of it. If you want to mock Waddell, that’s the area of his job that he deserves it for.

Remember he didn't just trade Hossa at the deadline Dupis went too.

Dupuis was a UFA to be having a mediocre season. He was a throw-in bottom-6 forward.

Skinner was given away

Skinner was not given away. The expectations for the return were too high, all things considered.

They made a bad deal for Kovy even by rental standards

What was the alternative? Let him walk as a UFA?

Waddell's track record is awful

Disagree, but I doubt anything I've said will disrupt your narrative.

 

[sansabri]

If the habs embrace the tank/rebuild Petry retained down to 4-4.5 for a first and 2 seconds/decent prospects could probably be done.

If we're retaining, we better get a really good prospect out of it. Why settler for less? We're not forced to move him.

 

[Liferleafer]

If we're retaining, we better get a really good prospect out of it. Why settler for less? We're not forced to move him.

I wouldn't demand retention.

 

[seabass45]

Faulk is the closest to a Hamilton/Hamonic type right now but they don't come around often.

If you want a dollar store version of Hamonic, Mayfield might become available depending on how the Isles D evolves.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Faulk is the closest to a Hamilton/Hamonic type right now but they don't come around often.

If you want a dollar store version of Hamonic, Mayfield might become available depending on how the Isles D evolves.

Tanev and Petry might also be out there. I think they do come around at least a couple of times a season though, expendable guys in the right age range who are worth something in futures to a team that's going to miss the playoffs type thing, just might have to wait for the midway point of the season so that landscape takes shape

 

[seabass45]

Tanev and Petry might also be out there. I think they do come around at least a couple of times a season though, expendable guys in the right age range who are worth something in futures to a team that's going to miss the playoffs type thing, just might have to wait for the midway point of the season so that landscape takes shape

Yeah Tanev is an option too but LL said he's heard enough about Tanev (which is fair).

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yeah Tanev is an option too but LL said he's heard enough about Tanev (which is fair).

for sure, it's been beaten to death. But in reality there's probably some options for RHD trades to the Leafs in early 2019 when teams are accepting their fates as non-playoff teams

 

[Nolan11]

Would you consider Justin Braun for:

Sandin + 2nd + SJ 2020 7th
or
Bracco + 1st + 2020 7th (SJ)