Proposal: Hamonic/Hamilton type deal for the Leafs (1st/2nd/2nd)

[Thrasymachus]

idk how you can possibly defend Don Waddell's decision making as Atlanta's GM

 

[Liferleafer]

Would you consider Justin Braun for:

Sandin + 2nd + SJ 2020 7th
or
Bracco + 1st + 2020 7th (SJ)

Yes.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

idk how you can possibly defend Don Waddell's decision making as Atlanta's GM

It’s not my intent to defend Waddell’s tenure in Atlanta. I’m not that much of a homer. I’ve only ever argued that he gets his deserved reputation as a GM for the wrong reason; it should not be a because of his activity as a trader, but that as a drafter. Atlanta ended being awful to mediocre during its run because they came into the league with nothing and did a horrid job of drafting outside of the obvious picks (Heatley, Kovalchuk.)


Atlanta Thrashers Draft History at hockeydb.com

There’s a reason why the lone Thrashers team that had success was Kovalchuk, Hossa and a bunch of players in their mid-30s. Waddell directly or indirectly hired the scouts that failed to the build the depth necessary to compete. He’s responsible for that.

His trading record doesn’t warrant dismissing him as an idiot and expecting him to trade Faulk to the Leafs for crap. He’s average in that regard. There’s some good (Kozlov, Savard), a lot of justifiable and one truly horrendous deal (Coburn.)

 

[Thrasymachus]

It’s not my intent to defend Waddell’s tenure in Atlanta. I’m not that much of a homer. I’ve only ever argued that he gets his deserved reputation as a GM for the wrong reason; it should not be a because of his activity as a trader, but that as a drafter. Atlanta ended being awful to mediocre during its run because they came into the league with nothing and did a horrid job of drafting outside of the obvious picks (Heatley, Kovalchuk.)


Atlanta Thrashers Draft History at hockeydb.com

There’s a reason why the lone Thrashers team that had success was Kovalchuk, Hossa and a bunch of players in their mid-30s. Waddell directly or indirectly hired the scouts that failed to the build the depth necessary to compete. He’s responsible for that.

His trading record doesn’t warrant dismissing him as an idiot and expecting him to trade Faulk to the Leafs for crap. He’s average in that regard. There’s some good (Kozlov, Savard), a lot of justifiable and one truly horrendous deal (Coburn.)

Fair enough, this is an interesting interpretation

 

[LMFAO]

I'd trade a 2nd rounder for Gudas in a heartbeat

 

[Deam78]

ah, sorry I misread. Pesce would fit very well, I'm sure the price would be prohibitive

Yeah I know. I just thought some Canes fan could chip in and get the discussion going.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Yeah I know. I just thought some Canes fan could chip in and get the discussion going.

Unless there's an unknown internal motivation at play, he won't be a Hamonic/Hamilton candidate. Kadri or Nylander would have to come back the other way to motivate the Canes to move him to Toronto. There's simply no way around quality for quality there.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Yeah I know. I just thought some Canes fan could chip in and get the discussion going.

fair enough, I don't think we would give up what it would take to get Pesce though, even if it was a futures package it definitely includes Liljegren. I'd sit on what we have, get a bandaid guy like Tanev/Petry etc at the deadline for a futures package and look to develop the guy who is the real solution for the long term, hopefully that's Liljegren

 

[McShogun99]

The Leafs should go all in on Karlsson as a 1 year rental. His cap hit fits this season and there’s a chance that he signs long term since he likes living in Ottawa/Ontario. After this season a lot of players will be getting raises so they might as well go all in this year.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The Leafs should go all in on Karlsson as a 1 year rental. His cap hit fits this season and there’s a chance that he signs long term since he likes living in Ottawa/Ontario. After this season a lot of players will be getting raises so they might as well go all in this year.

statistically you're a lot more likely to win a cup by being a top 5 team for 5-7 years than being the best team for 1 year. I think what it costs to get Karlsson even as a rental probably knocks Toronto down a tier in the years after

 

[McShogun99]

statistically you're a lot more likely to win a cup by being a top 5 team for 5-7 years than being the best team for 1 year. I think what it costs to get Karlsson even as a rental probably knocks Toronto down a tier in the years after

It will. The cost will probably destroy Toronto’s prospect pool for the next 2 seasons but it will be the closest thing to a super team that the league has seen in years.

 

[Randy Randerson]

It will. The cost will probably destroy Toronto’s prospect pool for the next 2 seasons but it will be the closest thing to a super team that the league has seen in years.

honestly I'd be surprised if he could be had for exclusively non-roster assets. Even a super team has like a 5-to-1 chance of winning a cup though, I'd take 5-7 seasons of 10-to-1 instead, the Leafs are better off trying to sustain a good contender than go over the top imo

 

[Revelation]

Connor Murphy, Justin Braun or Mark Pysyk would be the cost effective potentially home run guys. Ceci possibly as well but idk if he can be traded

 

[Liferleafer]

Unless there's an unknown internal motivation at play, he won't be a Hamonic/Hamilton candidate. Kadri or Nylander would have to come back the other way to motivate the Canes to move him to Toronto. There's simply no way around quality for quality there.

Politely, no chance Faulk returns Kadri or Nylander. If that means he goes elsewhere...i'm A-OK with that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Politely, no chance Faulk returns Kadri or Nylander. If that means he goes elsewhere...i'm A-OK with that.

that was about Pesce, I made the same mistake earlier in the thread

 

[Liferleafer]

that was about Pesce, I made the same mistake earlier in the thread

Ah...that changes things.

 

[Tripod]

I'd trade a 2nd rounder for Gudas in a heartbeat

Yeah I don't think Hextall would though.

Only RHD on the team. Only D with a mean streak, even though we all know he steps over the edge.

I expect he and Sanheim will be the middle pairing this coming year and it won't be util next summer when Gudas is possibly moved. But honestly, I would rather see:

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg

...in 2019/20. Remove AMac instead of removing Gudas. That has a good balance of skill and size.


But FWIW, I am sure if any top 4 Dman comes available, especially a RH one, Dubas will be in on it. And honestly, even if he overpays by giving up extra picks/prospects, who cares. That's why he/they collected all the extra ones the past few years....to use when you need them.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It’s not my intent to defend Waddell’s tenure in Atlanta. I’m not that much of a homer. I’ve only ever argued that he gets his deserved reputation as a GM for the wrong reason; it should not be a because of his activity as a trader, but that as a drafter. Atlanta ended being awful to mediocre during its run because they came into the league with nothing and did a horrid job of drafting outside of the obvious picks (Heatley, Kovalchuk.)


Atlanta Thrashers Draft History at hockeydb.com

There’s a reason why the lone Thrashers team that had success was Kovalchuk, Hossa and a bunch of players in their mid-30s. Waddell directly or indirectly hired the scouts that failed to the build the depth necessary to compete. He’s responsible for that.

His trading record doesn’t warrant dismissing him as an idiot and expecting him to trade Faulk to the Leafs for crap. He’s average in that regard. There’s some good (Kozlov, Savard), a lot of justifiable and one truly horrendous deal (Coburn.)

I think you misunderstood, It's not exactly that I expect him to trade Faulk to the Leafs for crap, it's more that I expect him to trade Faulk for crap period.

I do think he's likely he ends in Toronto eventually but no matter where he goes you won't get much back

 

[DoobieDubas]

No to Braun for sandin +2nd or bracco + 1st , Yes to Gudas for 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing.

 

[Nolan11]

No to Braun for sandin +2nd or bracco + 1st , Yes to Gudas for 3rd pairing not 2nd pairing.

understood. You don't want Braun but lifer does. One vote for and one against. Consensus for sharks boards seems to be an OK to trading Braun for a 1st plus Bracco + 7th SJ 2020 just cause. We'd hope for a second trade to fill that hole but would do it to replace our lost 1st in the Kane deal

 

[ER89]

Yeah I don't think Hextall would though.

Only RHD on the team. Only D with a mean streak, even though we all know he steps over the edge.

I expect he and Sanheim will be the middle pairing this coming year and it won't be util next summer when Gudas is possibly moved. But honestly, I would rather see:

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg

...in 2019/20. Remove AMac instead of removing Gudas. That has a good balance of skill and size.


But FWIW, I am sure if any top 4 Dman comes available, especially a RH one, Dubas will be in on it. And honestly, even if he overpays by giving up extra picks/prospects, who cares. That's why he/they collected all the extra ones the past few years....to use when you need them.

Hey one of your flyers brethren said he can behad for asecond. No takesies backsies. Hands off, he is ours now

 

[greasysnapper]

I feel like Hjalmarsson would be a good fit.

RHD, Top 4 quality, Cup experience, 4.1AAV this year, 5 the next 2. What makes this trade likely is it's a Western team (which Eastern team is going to want to set Toronto up to be a juggernaut), Chayka's always wheeling an dealing, and the Coyotes are building a young core.

I could see something like Sandin (Hayton's teammate) + 1st + Nielsen/Marincin/Rosen

 

[4thline]

understood. You don't want Braun but lifer does. One vote for and one against. Consensus for sharks boards seems to be an OK to trading Braun for a 1st plus Bracco + 7th SJ 2020 just cause. We'd hope for a second trade to fill that hole but would do it to replace our lost 1st in the Kane deal

Another vote yes

 

[Fogelhund]

Voting no for Braun.

 

[Fogelhund]

I feel like Hjalmarsson would be a good fit.

RHD, Top 4 quality, Cup experience, 4.1AAV this year, 5 the next 2. What makes this trade likely is it's a Western team (which Eastern team is going to want to set Toronto up to be a juggernaut), Chayka's always wheeling an dealing, and the Coyotes are building a young core.

I could see something like Sandin (Hayton's teammate) + 1st + Nielsen/Marincin/Rosen

I'm not opposed to the player, but I think you've overpayed. 1st + Nielsen/Marincin/Rosen should do, and is about what Phoenix paid to obtain him.