Grading the draft

[Eb]

Its not really Hunter who is at fault here, as it was Shanny and Dubas the working the phones on roster player trades while Hunter was busy with the draft.

Hunter made high skilled selections with his picks that have good potential but its Shanny and Dubas that dropped the ball by not being able to get Hunter more picks via vets traded for picks .

I'm not even talking Phil or Dion in particularly (however one traded for a 1st would have been huge) but those are tougher trades to complete because of money and cap. But Bozak, Lupul, Polak etc for picks would have prevented the need to keep trading back.

Hunter bets a B+ from me at the draft table and Shanny/Dubas get and F for sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

"In Hunter we still trust" of recognizing talent and skill with the picks he did have. Smaller skilled players fell to him because other teams drafted more size and less risk and Hunter wasn't afraid to draft them.

Armchair GM post if I ever saw one.

Mess ripping on management on unseen moves with no insider information on what occurred over the phone and behind close doors.

Funny enough, this type of person would be the first to bash a trade that did not yield fair value.

 

[ACC1224]

Its not really Hunter who is at fault here, as it was Shanny and Dubas the working the phones on roster player trades while Hunter was busy with the draft.

Hunter made high skilled selections with his picks that have good potential but its Shanny and Dubas that dropped the ball by not being able to get Hunter more picks via vets traded for picks .

I'm not even talking Phil or Dion in particularly (however one traded for a 1st would have been huge) but those are tougher trades to complete because of money and cap. But Bozak, Lupul, Polak etc for picks would have prevented the need to keep trading back.

Hunter bets a B+ from me at the draft table and Shanny/Dubas get and F for sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

"In Hunter we still trust" of recognizing talent and skill with the picks he did have. Smaller skilled players fell to him because other teams drafted more size and less risk and Hunter wasn't afraid to draft them.

You can believe that Hunter was involved in all trade discussions.

 

[dimi78]

Armchair GM post if I ever saw one.

Mess ripping on management on unseen moves with no insider information on what occurred over the phone and behind close doors.

Funny enough, this type of person would be the first to bash a trade that did not yield fair value.

He's a draft ***** as are many around here so he's disappointed that some roster players weren't turned into picks at the draft.

There's 2 themes going on in this forum we're underrating Kessel & Phanuef to the point we want them gone for anything and we're overrating the thought that teams at this point would be calling for depth guys like a Bozak & Lupul with contracts that make them redundant. I want Bozak & Lupul gone in the worst way but that won't happen until Free agency settles down and teams look at there organization's depth looking to improve from within first. I get a sick feeling that both will end up as potential buyouts do to there redundancy which is why the Leafs can't make bad trades absorbing any money from trading Kessel or Phanuef. You can take a contract back that expires after a year or 2 but retaining on these 2 is bad news and should not happen at all cost. There good players that can help during a rebuild, redundancy is what NEEDS to go to kick start the rebuild not your 2 best players locked in long term.

 

[Jack Bauer]

He's a draft *****as are many around here so he's disappointed that some roster players weren't turned into picks at the draft.

There's 2 themes going on in this forum we're underrating Kessel & Phanuef to the point we want them gone for anything and we're overrating the thought that teams at this point would be calling for depth guys like a Bozak & Lupul with contracts that make them redundant. I want Bozak & Lupul gone in the worst way but that won't happen until Free agency settles down and teams look at there organization's depth looking to improve from within first. I get a sick feeling that both will end up as potential buyouts do to there redundancy which is why the Leafs can't make bad trades absorbing any money from trading Kessel or Phanuef. You can take a contract back that expires after a year or 2 but retaining on these 2 is bad news and should not happen at all cost. There good players that can help during a rebuild, redundancy is what NEEDS to go to kick start the rebuild not your 2 best players locked in long term.

And in terms of Bozak and Lupul the offers are picks in the future, and were not for this year.

So if you're Shanahan and being offered a 2016 2nd for say Bozak right now, why not wait a week and get the same price with more teams involved?

Or wait till the trade deadline and have a better idea of what the value is on the picks?

There really is no rush.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

He's a draft *****as are many around here so he's disappointed that some roster players weren't turned into picks at the draft.

There's 2 themes going on in this forum we're underrating Kessel & Phanuef to the point we want them gone for anything and we're overrating the thought that teams at this point would be calling for depth guys like a Bozak & Lupul with contracts that make them redundant. I want Bozak & Lupul gone in the worst way but that won't happen until Free agency settles down and teams look at there organization's depth looking to improve from within first. I get a sick feeling that both will end up as potential buyouts do to there redundancy which is why the Leafs can't make bad trades absorbing any money from trading Kessel or Phanuef. You can take a contract back that expires after a year or 2 but retaining on these 2 is bad news and should not happen at all cost. There good players that can help during a rebuild, redundancy is what NEEDS to go to kick start the rebuild not your 2 best players locked in long term.

Nah, I'd say he is pissed because he didn't get the players HE wanted.

If nobody offered a 2015 1st for Kessel, than how could we trade him for such? It's all speculation and it works both ways.

There are a lot of Centers that are FAs this year, so that will hurt Bozak's chance of being traded, as teams will look for a freebie first.

Lupul, well, just good luck on that. He will be very hard to move, regardless. The good news is that his contract goes down in real money next year, maybe Arizona will take him to hit the floor..... again

 

[Babcocks Marner]

And in terms of Bozak and Lupul the offers are picks in the future, and were not for this year.

So if you're Shanahan and being offered a 2016 2nd for say Bozak right now, why not wait a week and get the same price with more teams involved?

Or wait till the trade deadline and have a better idea of what the value is on the picks?

There really is no rush.

Exactly, I don't think most of thought anyone was going anywhere until at the 1st anyways. People want to rush, and I get it, we all do, that core needs to go, but not at the cost of our future. There is no point in getting ripped right off.

 

[YOYOTCROSTER*]

Mess is bang on he calls a spade a spade. Shanny did nothing at draft to help out. Hunter took a risky nhl pick with Marner. There is nothing but truth to what he said. Now Hunter bet on Marner in the ohl draft with last 1st round pick I think 20th in 97 ohl draft and he clearly picked a winner. You can't argue he is a great junior player given what he has done. The only issue is can his run and gun offensive game translate to the nhl. I hope it does. He has a good shot as he does not go to the dirty areas so his injury chances are very low.

 

[Menzinger]

So, are we really starting to blame Dubas for not being able to move out poor contracts like Bozak's and Lupul who were signed under previous regimes?

 

[Eb]

So, are we really starting to blame Dubas for not being able to move out poor contracts like Bozak's and Lupul who were signed under previous regimes?

Haha how sad but true this is

 

[Mess]

So, are we really starting to blame Dubas for not being able to move out poor contracts like Bozak's and Lupul who were signed under previous regimes?

No I don't think anyone is blaming current management for the mess they inherited of undesirable players on bad contracts from previous Gms.

However in terms of the draft with the team highly motivated to draft rebuild is was disappointing as far as grading the draft of what could have been that the Leafs couldn't get Hunter more picks to work with through trades.

The drafting itself was fine just the other aspect was a fail from that standpoint.

 

[kilgore111]

A+ Getting Marner
B for rest of the draft. Passing on Merkley and Harkins (sleeper in the draft IMO) was a mistake

 

[Nithoniniel]

As always not trading turns into "sitting on their hands doing nothing". It always surprise me how posters with a long history of huge hockey interest still can't learn basic things like that there's two sides to negotiations.

They didn't pull the trigger on any deals. We have no idea if this is good or bad, as we have no idea what kind of opportunities there were.

Mess is bang on he calls a spade a spade. Shanny did nothing at draft to help out. Hunter took a risky nhl pick with Marner. There is nothing but truth to what he said. Now Hunter bet on Marner in the ohl draft with last 1st round pick I think 20th in 97 ohl draft and he clearly picked a winner. You can't argue he is a great junior player given what he has done. The only issue is can his run and gun offensive game translate to the nhl. I hope it does. He has a good shot as he does not go to the dirty areas so his injury chances are very low.

Spoken like someone who has never seen Marner play. For some reason, every smaller skilled player always have people talking about how they "don't go to the dirty areas" regardless of whether they actually do or not.

Guess some like to speak from prejudice rather than actual knowledge.

 

[burpsalot]

The Leafs drafted a lot of skill.

Now we have to take the wait and see approach to see what becomes of it all when we look back at this draft in the future.

Trading out of the 1st round in a draft considered one of the best in a decade to pick up extra 3rd rounder is a concern particularly if you are passing on Konecny and Merkley smaller skilled players to take more smaller skilled players with the picks acquired.

I was hoping for a Bozak trade for a 2nd and 3rd and then you don't need to trade out of the 1st round.

Except that after the interviews & extra testing it appears the Leafs had decided they didn't want Merkley. What did your interviews of him tell you?

 

[Stephen]

So out of Bracco, Korostelev, Dzierkals, Timashov, how would you rank them? Maybe throw in Lindgren for fun too.

 

[Stephen]

No I don't think anyone is blaming current management for the mess they inherited of undesirable players on bad contracts from previous Gms.

However in terms of the draft with the team highly motivated to draft rebuild is was disappointing as far as grading the draft of what could have been that the Leafs couldn't get Hunter more picks to work with through trades.

The drafting itself was fine just the other aspect was a fail from that standpoint.

I tend to agree. It was disappointing that people like Lupul, Bozak and even Polak couldn't have been converted into picks in the 50-100 range. The trading back from 24 looks acceptable because we're hearing nice read ups on Dermott and Bracco is a high skill player, but we should have had those guys as well as the extra pick at 24 or 29.

Wish they had taken Dergachyov though. Would have been fine not taking Nielsen or not sure how much of a hidden gem Dzierkals is compared to a 6'4" skilled forward. We'll see though. Just little concerns at this point.

 

[mikebel111*]

A for me

We got a superstar type prospect in Marner who has elite skill and isn't soft and goes to the dirty areas to make a play. He has so much passion than he always wants the puck. He will take a hit and go to the tough areas to get the puck

heck of a player and tough as nails player

 

[Super Mega]

A

One of the better drafts in leafs history. Not an amazing pool to start with but they did well with what they got.

Happy they didnt dump Kessel for peanuts, still expecting big moves this year.

 

[HellasLEAF]

I want to give it an A+ but I am going B+ based on one risky play that may have only half payed off.

I loved the Marner pick and I like all the later steals.

But I wonder if the trading back (which yielded Dermott and Bracco) was worth missing out on a few great players like Konecky, Harkins or possibly Merkley. It's a Quality vs Quantity debate there.

For me it's all riding on how good Dermott is because I'm loving taking Bracco and if you ask me, Hunter and co bit REALLY hard on Dermott to have Konecky right there say no thanks. If they didn't trade back and just took him, we would have all liked the pick, media would have said good things, pick would have been on tv the opening day lol, etc etc. But they passed, traded back, took Dermott (although they had Bracco higher apparently) then waited, and then had the chance at Bracco after getting lucky to see him slip to us.

I hope that move doesn't bite what was otherwise an excellent draft. Maybe the mantra they drilled into themselves to trade down and get picks should have changed seeing how it played out.

However, if Dermott becomes awesome then it's all good.

 

[TMLegend]

Liked the Bracco, Timashov, and Korostelev picks. Disliked the Marner and Dermott picks. and indifferent towards Desrocher, Lindgren, Dzerkais, and Nielsen picks.

He gets a C+ from me. Passing on Hanifin for Marner and passing on Konecny for Dermott and Bracco will end up being mistakes imo.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Easily an A, this is the best draft we've had since I can remember. Really excited about our future and management.

 

[mikebel111*]

Liked the Bracco, Timashov, and Korostelev picks. Disliked the Marner and Dermott picks. and indifferent towards Desrocher, Lindgren, Dzerkais, and Nielsen picks.

He gets a C+ from me. Passing on Hanifin for Marner and passing on Konecny for Dermott and Bracco will end up being mistakes imo.

I agree we missed on Erik Johnson over Giroux, what a terrible pick

fire Dubas and everybody!!!!!!


Hunter is a great talent evaluator and looks like he made another right choice

amazing pick in Marner and A draft for us

we are in good hands

 

[mikebel111*]

Easily an A, this is the best draft we've had since I can remember. Really excited about our future and management.

but but we missed on Erik Johnson.

 

[TMLegend]

I agree we missed on Erik Johnson over Giroux, what a terrible pick

fire Dubas and everybody!!!!!!


Hunter is a great talent evaluator and looks like he made another right choice

amazing pick in Marner and A draft for us

we are in good hands

There ya go folks. Marner becomes Giroux and Hanifin becomes Johnson because mikeabel111 said so. You mind telling me the winning numbers for the next Lotto 649 jackpot? Or what about where the Leafs will be picking in next years draft?

 

[mikebel111*]

There ya go folks. Marner becomes Giroux and Hanifin becomes Johnson because mikeabel111 said so. You mind telling me the winning numbers for the next Lotto 649 jackpot? Or what about where the Leafs will be picking in next years draft?

yes just like how you said before me, that the leafs first 2 picks will end up being mistakes. Now who was trying to tell the future

that's right, Some poster named Hanifin, you mind telling me how many # of points Leafs will get next season

so yes Erik. Johnson

 

[dubey]

There ya go folks. Marner becomes Giroux and Hanifin becomes Johnson because mikeabel111 said so. You mind telling me the winning numbers for the next Lotto 649 jackpot? Or what about where the Leafs will be picking in next years draft?

How often are you allowed to change your username on here?

Its not really Hunter who is at fault here, as it was Shanny and Dubas the working the phones on roster player trades while Hunter was busy with the draft.

Hunter made high skilled selections with his picks that have good potential but its Shanny and Dubas that dropped the ball by not being able to get Hunter more picks via vets traded for picks .

I'm not even talking Phil or Dion in particularly (however one traded for a 1st would have been huge) but those are tougher trades to complete because of money and cap. But Bozak, Lupul, Polak etc for picks would have prevented the need to keep trading back.

Hunter bets a B+ from me at the draft table and Shanny/Dubas get and F for sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

"In Hunter we still trust" of recognizing talent and skill with the picks he did have. Smaller skilled players fell to him because other teams drafted more size and less risk and Hunter wasn't afraid to draft them.

lol