Grading the draft

[jay-P]

I'm gonna go and give it a C.
The thing i'm most excited about is that we're looking for players with skill, not going with the Barron Smith type picks from Burke era, where he said (or was it Morrison) after the draft he was picked mainly because someone in his family was an NHL player and they were picking him for his bloodline or some nonsense like that.

Here's what Brian Burke said to justify the utterly hopeless drafting of Barron Smith, who had a statline of 34 0+2=2:

"We're betting there on potential more than anything else," said Burke. "Good bloodlines, big body, good snarl. He's got a chance."

 

[meefer]

Here's what Brian Burke said to justify the utterly hopeless drafting of Barron Smith, who had a statline of 34 0+2=2:

"We're betting there on potential more than anything else," said Burke. "Good bloodlines, big body, good snarl. He's got a chance."

Thanks for that.

 

[frost king]

Name me one fan base, that doesn't think that their team killed the draft yesterday? Exactly, everyone thinks, that their draft was the best.

 

[Stacker29]

Name me one fan base, that doesn't think that their team killed the draft yesterday? Exactly, everyone thinks, that their draft was the best.

Boston Bruins fans are likely well aware of how bad their draft was.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd give this draft a A-. A bit disappointed we didn't trade any roster players *cough cough Kessel cough cough Bozak* for picks but I guess they haven't found the right deal yet. But we picked up some pretty good players.

4 - TOR MITCHELL MARNER C CAN 5' 11" 160 OHL LONDON
34 - TOR TRAVIS DERMOTT D CAN 5' 11" 197 OHL ERIE

61 - TOR JEREMY BRACCO RW USA 5' 9" 173 USHL USA U-18

65 - TOR ANDREW NIELSEN D CAN 6' 3" 207 WHL LETHBRIDGE

68 - TOR MARTINS DZIERKALS LW LVA 5' 11" 169 RUSSIA-JR. RIGA 2
95 - TOR JESPER LINDGREN D SWE 5' 11" 161 SWEDEN-JR. MODO JR.
125 - TOR DMYTRO TIMASHOV LW UKR 5' 9" 192 QMJHL QUEBEC
155 - TOR STEPHEN DESROCHER D CAN 6' 3" 198 OHL OSHAWA
185 - TOR NIKITA KOROSTELEV RW RUS 6' 1" 195 OHL SARNIA


How would you rate it?

I thought, when they had 9 picks, they'd do more NCAA headed players.

6 CHL Players wasn't my expectation.
1 NCAA player
2 European based

I'm thrilled with this draft.

I think they picked up 1st./2nd. round talent in most of the picks.

Yes, yes they weren't 1st. round ranked, as you can only have 30 1st. round ranked players, and if you had 60 equal players you could still only have 30 1st. round ranked players.

IMO Euro's get the short end of the North American hype machine, so an equal Euro is going to be ranked lower.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...raft-picks-and-the-connor-mcdavid-effect.html

A look at the Leafs’ selections:

First round
4. Mitch Marner, F, London Knights. 5-11, 160 pounds. Forty-four goals, 82 assists for 126 points in 63 games . . . Finished second in OHL scoring . . . Can play centre or wing . . . Fastest 17-year-old in Knights history to reach 100 points.

The Leafs’ opinion: “No rush for him. It will not be a failure in any way for him if he goes back for another year.†— Brendan Shanahan

Second round
34. Travis Dermott, D, Erie Otters, 5-11, 197 pounds. Eight goals, 37 assists for 45 points in 61 games . . . Led all defencemen with 17 points (5-12-17) in 20 playoff games to help Erie reach the OHL final.

The Leafs’ opinion: “In the playoffs, he brought even more intensity to the games. He thrives in pressure situations.†— Mark Hunter

61. Jeremy Bracco, RW, US U18, 5-9, 173 pounds. Twenty-six goals, 49 assists for 75 points in 56 games . . . Committed to Boston College for next season but can be talked out of it. ... His 122 career assists are the most by any player in NTDP history 34 more than Patrick Kane’s previous mark.

The Leafs’ opinion: “He makes special plays. Sometimes in scouting I think: Would I like to play with that young man? And I would really love to play with him. I know, if I could get open, he’d get the puck on my stick.†—Hunter

Third round
65. Andrew Nielson, D, Lethbridge Hurricanes. 6-2, 207 pounds. Seven goals, 17 assists for 24 points in 59 games . . . Was once waterboy for the Red Deer Rebels when Dion Phaneuf played there. ... Told Yahoo before the draft: “I don’t like the Leafs.â€

The Leafs’ opinion: “Good skills for a big man. But he hasn’t played a lot of hockey.†— Hunter

68. Martins Dzierkals, LW, Riga (Russia JR). 5-11, 169 pounds. Ten goals, 18 assists for 28 points in 32 games . . . Played for Latvia in the Under-18s . . . . Thrived in Russia’s junior league.

The Leafs’ opinion: “We hope he’s one of the sleepers in the draft that not many people have seen as much. Some real good upside.â€

Fourth round
95. Jesper Lindgren, D, MODO (Sweden JR). 5-11, 161 pounds. Six goals, 27 assists for 33 points in 39 games . . . Small, but he can carry the puck. Patience is the key.

The Leafs’ opinion: “A slight defenceman. He’s got good skills and can get stronger.†— Hunter

Fifth round
125. Dmytro Timashov, LW, Quebec Remparts. 5-9, 192 pounds. Nineteen goals, 71 assists for 90 points in 66 games . . . Ethnically Russian, born in Ukraine and raised in Sweden since he was seven . . . Had a good Memorial Cup with Quebec. Speaks three languages.

The Leafs’ opinion: “A puck possession player who can handle the puck and go east and west. He makes plays.†— Hunter

Sixth round
155. Stephen Desrocher, D, Oshawa Generals. 6-3, 198 pounds. Ten goals, 13 assists for 23 points in 66 games ... A Memorial Cup champion. Having former Oshawa coach D.J. Smith now at the Leafs table helped his cause.

The Leafs’ opinion: “Got a big shot. Will get stronger.†— Hunter

Seventh round
185. Nikita Korostelev, RW, Sarnia Sting. 6-1, 195 pounds. Twenty-four goals, 29 assists for 53 points in 55 games . . . Born in Moscow, Korostelev came to Canada four years ago to pursue hockey.

The Leafs’ opinion: “He’s a player that the draft got to him and didnâ™t do quite as well the second half. I think he felt the heat.†— Hunter

Some other readings

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/

 

[Mess]

The Leafs drafted a lot of skill.

Now we have to take the wait and see approach to see what becomes of it all when we look back at this draft in the future.

Trading out of the 1st round in a draft considered one of the best in a decade to pick up extra 3rd rounder is a concern particularly if you are passing on Konecny and Merkley smaller skilled players to take more smaller skilled players with the picks acquired.

I was hoping for a Bozak trade for a 2nd and 3rd and then you don't need to trade out of the 1st round.

 

[Shwaguy*]

The Leafs drafted a lot of skill.

Now we have to take the wait and see approach to see what becomes of it all when we look back at this draft in the future.

Trading out of the 1st round in a draft considered one of the best in a decade to pick up extra 3rd rounder is a concern particularly if you are passing on Konecny and Merkley smaller skilled players to take more smaller skilled players with the picks acquired.

I was hoping for a Bozak trade for a 2nd and 3rd and then you don't need to trade out of the 1st round.

Nah I'd take Dermott+Bracco over Konecky or Merkley every single time, not worried about trading down. Especially considering Dermott was one of our BPA's at 24 and we still got him

 

[Mess]

Nah I'd take Dermott+Bracco over Konecky or Merkley every single time, not worried about trading down. Especially considering Dermott was one of our BPA's at 24 and we still got him

Draft Merkley and trade a roster player for 2nd and 3rd and draft Dermott and Bracco

 

[ULF_55]

Draft Merkley and trade a roster player for 2nd and 3rd and draft Dermott and Bracco

Would have been nice to see the rebuild start with the NHL roster, but not to be.

Maybe they're looking at moving the big fish first, and are looking at more than 2nd./3rd. rounders from the 2015 Draft?

Maybe someone is looking at Bozak-Kessel pairing for their 2nd. line?

After the 1st. round I wouldn't move van Riemsdyk for a pick that isn't a 1st. rounder (2016?).

Lupul might be a player they keep.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Name me one fan base, that doesn't think that their team killed the draft yesterday? Exactly, everyone thinks, that their draft was the best.

Did you even watch the draft? Because I think you would know, there is one team in particular that is crying. Is is possible to feel bad for Boston? nope

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Draft Merkley and trade a roster player for 2nd and 3rd and draft Dermott and Bracco

That would have been ideal, but either way, we turned 24 into much better picks than going with one of our guys... I was a bit upset too, but when they got Bracco on top of it all, made me feel much better, actually, happy we moved it now.

They were looking at Dermott for 24th, so when you look at it that way, great move.

 

[Menzinger]

The Leafs drafted a lot of skill.

Now we have to take the wait and see approach to see what becomes of it all when we look back at this draft in the future.

Trading out of the 1st round in a draft considered one of the best in a decade to pick up extra 3rd rounder is a concern particularly if you are passing on Konecny and Merkley smaller skilled players to take more smaller skilled players with the picks acquired.

I was hoping for a Bozak trade for a 2nd and 3rd and then you don't need to trade out of the 1st round.

Weren't you strongly suggesting on the lead-up of the draft to trade back from #4 to gain more assets? This is essentially the same thing, except safer because the difference between a #24/29 pick and a #34 of turning into an impact player is a lot smaller than the gap between #4 and #8-10.

 

[realgoodleafs]

Here's what Brian Burke said to justify the utterly hopeless drafting of Barron Smith, who had a statline of 34 0+2=2:

"We're betting there on potential more than anything else," said Burke. "Good bloodlines, big body, good snarl. He's got a chance."

Or what about that guy they were so impressed with because he said if he wasn't a hockey player he'd be a soldier. I think it was Kenny Ryan. And then drafting fighters

 

[sda]

Thanks for that.

Compare Barron Smith to Korestolov and tell me who we want running drafts.

 

[realgoodleafs]

Nah I'd take Dermott+Bracco over Konecky or Merkley every single time, not worried about trading down. Especially considering Dermott was one of our BPA's at 24 and we still got him

We actually got Dermott + Bracco + Dzierkals for pick 24. Pretty good value there considering it seems like Dermott was their guy to begin with.

 

[rrc1967]

I'd give this draft a A-. A bit disappointed we didn't trade any roster players *cough cough Kessel cough cough Bozak* for picks but I guess they haven't found the right deal yet. But we picked up some pretty good players.

how do we know?

they all look good at the draft - otherwise they wouldn't be drafted.

the leafs took a fair amount of boom or bust, so it's hard to say how the chips may fall.

it could be a 2006 draft for toronto, or it could be a 2008.

hard to grade a draft like this for about 3+ years.

every year we draft, and someone creates a lineup with every single drafted player and says..this is our future lineup..

the odds start to really drop after the top 10 picks, even with a deep draft.

2nd rounders are even more of a gamble.

case and point the 2003 draft. the first round was just.. wow.

the second round 10 out of 30 played 300+ games. 24 out of 30 in the first round.

and that was a pretty deep draft.

2006 another deep draft.. falls off the cliff after the first 15 picks as far as consistency of pick versus player.

so did we do good? who the heck nows .. check back in 3-4 years - with any luck we made out like bandits.

 

[Eb]

I'm gonna go and give it a C.

I think if we go look in threads for previous drafts most people give them A- or B or something like that, and it's just not realistic. Some i think are too obsessed with when a player predicted by some to go in ~2nd round goes in 5th or later immediately scream "Steal!". Flip the coin and when a player gets selected at a certain pick when he's expected to go (much) later same people aren't happy, thinking "we could have had him in later rounds".

Usually we can look at our a draft or a propsect pool from the 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' prospective. While neither is really correct, history over the last 10 years show that the 'glass half empty' prospective is much more accurate when judging Maple Leafs prospects.

I like the draft. I do hope we get some quality NHL players from it (except Marnier who ofc i expect to be an impace player). It would be great for this team if we could get a Mark Stone, Damon Severson, Ondrej Palat, Sami Vatanen, Mattias Ekholm type impact player in later round.

The thing i'm most excited about is that we're looking for players with skill, not going with the Barron Smith type picks from Burke era, where he said (or was it Morrison) after the draft he was picked mainly because someone in his family was an NHL player and they were picking him for his bloodline or some nonsense like that.

Great post!

 

[BertCorbeau]

Pronman gave the Leafs an A in his ESPN Insider rankings apparently

 

[Drew75]

Draft Merkley and trade a roster player for 2nd and 3rd and draft Dermott and Bracco

Mess ... what happened to your faith in Hunter?

 

[Mess]

Weren't you strongly suggesting on the lead-up of the draft to trade back from #4 to gain more assets? This is essentially the same thing, except safer because the difference between a #24/29 pick and a #34 of turning into an impact player is a lot smaller than the gap between #4 and #8-10.

The Columbus rumour was #8, #34, #38 and Kerby Rychel for #4.

So that would equal Marner or Rantanen (#8), Dermott (#34), Paul Bittner (#38) and Kerby Rychel (former 1st rounder).

When Hunter passed on Konecny at #24 to move back to #29 he still had a 1st round pick in a strong draft and the #61 pick (Bracco).

Had he drafted Merkley at #29 and still drafted Bracco with the late 2nd to trade back from #24 it would have been better then trading Merkley for #34 Dermott and #68 Martins Dzierkals.

I think he got too obsessed with more picks that he traded out of the strongest draft in a decade to obtain more 3rd rounders.. In such a strong draft I would have demanded a 1st & 2nd or 2 X 2nds to move back and out and not settled for 3rds.

 

[ACC1224]

Solid 'A'.
The Leafs walked out of the draft with the Player they had ranked 2.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The Leafs drafted a lot of skill.

Now we have to take the wait and see approach to see what becomes of it all when we look back at this draft in the future.

Trading out of the 1st round in a draft considered one of the best in a decade to pick up extra 3rd rounder is a concern particularly if you are passing on Konecny and Merkley smaller skilled players to take more smaller skilled players with the picks acquired.

I was hoping for a Bozak trade for a 2nd and 3rd and then you don't need to trade out of the 1st round.

We traded out of round 1 to gain 2 picks, not 1.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The Columbus rumour was #8, #34, #38 and Kerby Rychel for #4.

So that would equal Marner or Rantanen (#8), Dermott (#34), Paul Bittner (#38) and Kerby Rychel (former 1st rounder).

When Hunter passed on Konecny at #24 to move back to #29 he still had a 1st round pick in a strong draft and the #61 pick (Bracco).

Had he drafted Merkley at #29 and still drafted Bracco with the late 2nd to trade back from #24 it would have been better then trading Merkley for #34 Dermott and #68 Martins Dzierkals.

I think he got too obsessed with more picks that he traded out of the strongest draft in a decade to obtain more 3rd rounders.. In such a strong draft I would have demanded a 1st & 2nd or 2 X 2nds to move back and out and not settled for 3rds.

We're going to start debating about pick 61 being a 3rd vs 2nd rounder? I doubt we're going to care, but technically we traded a 1st (24) for 2 2nds (34 and 61) and a 3rd (65).

61 and 65 to fall from 24 to 34 in a deep draft is more then fair.

 

[Mess]

Mess ... what happened to your faith in Hunter?

Its not really Hunter who is at fault here, as it was Shanny and Dubas the working the phones on roster player trades while Hunter was busy with the draft.

Hunter made high skilled selections with his picks that have good potential but its Shanny and Dubas that dropped the ball by not being able to get Hunter more picks via vets traded for picks .

I'm not even talking Phil or Dion in particularly (however one traded for a 1st would have been huge) but those are tougher trades to complete because of money and cap. But Bozak, Lupul, Polak etc for picks would have prevented the need to keep trading back.

Hunter bets a B+ from me at the draft table and Shanny/Dubas get and F for sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

"In Hunter we still trust" of recognizing talent and skill with the picks he did have. Smaller skilled players fell to him because other teams drafted more size and less risk and Hunter wasn't afraid to draft them.

 

[dimi78]

The focus on players with high natural talent gets an A+ for me. Said it in another thread good players need good players with them to develop good players that can potentially go on to be core pieces for your franchise. Not all of these kids will pan out as Maple Leafs. Most will be trade assets, 2 maybe 3 will play in the NHL but keeping with the theme of bringing players of skill & hockey IQ the only real 2 things that can't be tought as is the fundamental difference between top end players to depth role players your setting an environment to develop potential core players.

It's a program they're building folks... just 1 draft and there's more natural talent from it in the organizations pipe line than it ever had at 1 time. Only good will come from this. It's irrelevant to hype individuals. The players who will pan out aren't scratched in stone it could be anybody. The hype in Detroit one draft was Mantha now it's Larkin... That's why you draft focus on things that can't be taught as the main factor which is natural talent & hockey IQ. Size is so irrelevant when your dealing with kids that just turn 18 years of age... Talk to me 5 years from now when these kids turn 23 and are turning into men gaining man strength. That player you drafted because of size over the more talented smaller in stature player his natural talent wont improve folks. The smaller player will get stronger and his natural talent will come out that much more with what he'll be able to do.

Just look at Brown as an example. As he gets stronger the more you will see from him because of his natural talent.