Post-Game Talk: GM 4 | Welcome to Skid Row | Flames def. Canucks 5-2 (Virtanen, Myers)

[4Twenty]

There are certainly a realistic series of events where the Canucks could keep both of their high level veteran leaders.

Demko plus one of the salaries for space. Picks with salaries to clear the deck.

They were too busy reading their press clippings and chasing one of the worst defensman contracts in the league.

 

[I am toxic]

I sincerely hope that when Benning is gone, we get a GM with the gravitas, intelligence and personality of a Pat Quinn.

After the soul-crushing experience of the 80's, when Oilers mocked us and Flames handed us our lunch, it was like being transported to the celestial expanse of Elysium, having competent management taking a clusterpuck of epic - nay, legendary - proportions and building a contender.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i'd like to try an assessment of what is up with the canucks. to that end, i'd like peoples' opinions as to which of the following factors are in play.

1-new player mix / early season adjustments

2-players struggling (be specific)

3-players having unrealistic expectations of themselves or the team.

4-dressing room issues

5-mistakes by coaching staff (be specific)

6-conflict with coaching staff

7-conflict with management

 

[I am toxic]

There are certainly a realistic series of events where the Canucks could keep both of their high level veteran leaders.

Demko plus one of the salaries for space. Picks with salaries to clear the deck.

They were too busy reading their press clippings and chasing one of the worst defensman contracts in the league.

And posts here at HFCanucks praising to the heavens Benning's sixth place finish in voting for GM of the playoffs award.

It is quite likely that those posts directly resulted in the horrid construction of this team and the results we have seen so far this season.

 

[krutovsdonut]

for me, i think there is clearly some 1, 2, 3 and 5 in the mix but i don't see enough to comfortably exclude the others. i feel like the stubborn response to adversity in the team that was there in the playoffs and for years prior has not been there.

the only guys i would say are really struggling are petey, myers, hamonic and virtanen. you might add gaudette and juolevi i guess based on how green is playing him, but i have yet to see what green sees to justify how far in the doghouse they seem to be.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

-Sucks to lose to the Flames more than any team, but I'm not going to go into panic mode quite yet.
-Had the Canucks popped in another goal or two in the first last night, it could have been a different story...but this is where they are..1-3.
-Pettersson doesn't seem like the same player to me this season...He will snap out of it..I have no doubt...The top 6 in general has not looked cohesive (0-11 on the PP..?)
-Team has not looked ready for some games, or looked really flat coming out for the 2nd period..The coaching staff have to take some of the blame for that.
-Very tough opponent coming in tomorrow...Canucks will have their hands full with the Habs.

 

[krutovsdonut]

And posts here at HFCanucks praising to the heavens Benning's sixth place finish in voting for GM of the playoffs award.

It is quite likely that those posts directly resulted in the horrid construction of this team and the results we have seen so far this season.

lol.

 

[krutovsdonut]

-Sucks to lose to the Flames more than any team, but I'm not going to go into panic mode quite yet.
-Had the Canucks popped in another goal or two in the first last night, it could have been a different story...but this is where they are..1-3.
-Pettersson doesn't seem like the same player to me this season...He will snap out of it..I have no doubt...The top 6 in general has not looked cohesive (0-11 on the PP..?)
-Team has not looked ready for some games, or looked really flat coming out for the 2nd period..The coaching staff have to take some of the blame for that.
-Very tough opponent coming in tomorrow...Canucks will have their hands full with the Habs.

just on the pp. there has been a total lack of imagination and only hughes will shoot the puck. it's an even staler version of last year's approach which was played out. it's as if they have not practiced. in there defence, last year the pp started terrible and then settled down after tweaking it.

 

[I am toxic]

lol.

So I took a good look at your face
I see your smile looks out of place
Deep inside you're blue . . .

. . . and green

 

[4Twenty]

i'd like to try an assessment of what is up with the canucks. to that end, i'd like peoples' opinions as to which of the following factors are in play.

1-new player mix / early season adjustments

2-players struggling (be specific)

3-players having unrealistic expectations of themselves or the team.

4-dressing room issues

5-mistakes by coaching staff (be specific)

6-conflict with coaching staff

7-conflict with management

1- Doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Every forward on the roster bar the surprising rookie was here last season.

2- Pettersson is struggling and that 2nd line needs a real 2nd liner not a rookie, in time he'll fit....feels very much like McCann getting the job because they need the positive press and the low salary.

3- I think the players rightly were shocked by the impending reboot

4 - dressing room looks fine, this is one place Travis Green will get my praise.

5 - No system, scramble drill, over playing the bad lines, not playing the players that win you games enough, carrying a defensman in the top 6 you don't trust

6 - I don't see any conflicts with coaching

7 - I think this plays into #3.....the bubble must've felt really good and stirred up hope that this group was going to be added too, not subratcted from. I think their a bit shell shocked and I think the new guys probably didn't realize that the team wasn't as good as their record/bubble performance and their over reliance on goaltending and a PP to mask their 5 on 5 play completely caught them off guard.


Ultimately it's a flawed roster, with a flawed make-up (white board) strategy that doesn't allow for more than a couple players to be played in situations that suit their current games. That said, Travis' coaching leaves so much to be desired and I think a better x's and o's coach could get more out of this extremely flawed roster, but the roster will still be extremely flawed.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

just on the pp. there has been a total lack of imagination and only hughes will shoot the puck. it's an even staler version of last year's approach which was played out. it's as if they have not practiced. in there defence, last year the pp started terrible and then settled down after tweaking it.

Everybody just looks completely off (save for one PP we had in the 1st period )....Also, lots of good teams have gotten off crappy starts, but its still tough to say what the Canucks are right now..The team we saw in last nights 1st period, or the team we saw in the 2nd and 3rd..?

 

[krutovsdonut]

So I took a good look at your face
I see your smile looks out of place
Deep inside you're blue . . .

. . . and green

i prefer

now if there's a smile on my face
it's only there tryin' to fool the public
but when it comes down to foolin' you
now honey that's quite a different subject

 

[krutovsdonut]

Everybody just looks completely off (save for one PP we had in the 1st period )....Also, lots of good teams have gotten off crappy starts, but its still tough to say what the Canucks are right now..The team we saw in last nights 1st period, or the team we saw in the 2nd and 3rd..?

make sure boeser and pettersson don't get clean lateral ice passes and get a skater in front of them when possible. clog up the middle when hughes gets the puck

pp unit 1 solved.

 

[CanuckleBerry]

@krutovsdonut

1)new player mix / early season adjustments
I mean sure, there will be some of this. But what team ISN'T facing this? For the most part the lines are the same. The defence pairings are the bigger contributor, but a well managed system should at least mitigate this. That being said we should also be able to visually see some semblance of what that system is and I don't. The special teams are in dissarray, and a shuffle on the PK may have some blame. Ultimately though that is a very systems-based aspect of the game. So what's going on? The PP is trash don't get me started. Plenty of meddling early on and the players seem listless.

2)players struggling (be specific)
Petterson doesn't look like himself. His competitive instinct seems castrated. I've got nothing on this, we've never seen it before. Hughes doesn't ooze the same confidence, perhaps losing Tanev really has been that big, but i really thought he would pull through better than this. The bottom six is a mixed bag from shift to shift. See some good things, see some lethargic play (Rousell, Virtanen). Gaudette is snake-bitten but trying. It's just a hodge podge bottom six with no defining identity or purpose.

3)players having unrealistic expectations of themselves or the team.
Not sure I see any of this. Confidence is important, and the team had plenty to back it up after the playoff run. They weren't sticking their chests out like they thought they were for sure contenders.

4)dressing room issues
Who knows, this would all be speculation. Doubt it, the new personnel like Schmidt seem to be gelling. Holtby is a professional. Losing the glue of Tanev and Markstrom probably hurts.

5)mistakes by coaching staff (be specific)
Not preparing systems. Not psyching up players. Over-using certain players (Edler), under-using certain players (Juolevi). The balance isn't there. Not adapting to events on the ice. Not learning lessons from last season/playoffs (allowing phenomenal amounts of shots and chances and relying on goaltending instead of developing systems).

6)conflict with coaching staff
Who knows. Maybe the players' listlessness is them tuning out the coaching staff. Purely speculative.

7)conflict with management
Don't have anything to back up claims here.

 

[krutovsdonut]

1- Doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Every forward on the roster bar the surprising rookie was here last season.

2- Pettersson is struggling and that 2nd line needs a real 2nd liner not a rookie, in time he'll fit....feels very much like McCann getting the job because they need the positive press and the low salary.

3- I think the players rightly were shocked by the impending reboot

4 - dressing room looks fine, this is one place Travis Green will get my praise.

5 - No system, scramble drill, over playing the bad lines, not playing the players that win you games enough, carrying a defensman in the top 6 you don't trust

6 - I don't see any conflicts with coaching

7 - I think this plays into #3.....the bubble must've felt really good and stirred up hope that this group was going to be added too, not subratcted from. I think their a bit shell shocked and I think the new guys probably didn't realize that the team wasn't as good as their record/bubble performance and their over reliance on goaltending and a PP to mask their 5 on 5 play completely caught them off guard.


Ultimately it's a flawed roster, with a flawed make-up (white board) strategy that doesn't allow for more than a couple players to be played in situations that suit their current games. That said, Travis' coaching leaves so much to be desired and I think a better x's and o's coach could get more out of this extremely flawed roster, but the roster will still be extremely flawed.

ok, i will put you down for flawed roster construction and overconfident young team getting a hard dose of reality, plus bad coaching systems and utilization.

 

[krutovsdonut]

@krutovsdonut

1)new player mix / early season adjustments
I mean sure, there will be some of this. But what team ISN'T facing this? For the most part the lines are the same. The defence pairings are the bigger contributor, but a well managed system should at least mitigate this. That being said we should also be able to visually see some semblance of what that system is and I don't. The special teams are in dissarray, and a shuffle on the PK may have some blame. Ultimately though that is a very systems-based aspect of the game. So what's going on? The PP is trash don't get me started. Plenty of meddling early on and the players seem listless.

2)players struggling (be specific)
Petterson doesn't look like himself. His competitive instinct seems castrated. I've got nothing on this, we've never seen it before. Hughes doesn't ooze the same confidence, perhaps losing Tanev really has been that big, but i really thought he would pull through better than this. The bottom six is a mixed bag from shift to shift. See some good things, see some lethargic play (Rousell, Virtanen). Gaudette is snake-bitten but trying. It's just a hodge podge bottom six with no defining identity or purpose.

3)players having unrealistic expectations of themselves or the team.
Not sure I see any of this. Confidence is important, and the team had plenty to back it up after the playoff run. They weren't sticking their chests out like they thought they were for sure contenders.

4)dressing room issues
Who knows, this would all be speculation. Doubt it, the new personnel like Schmidt seem to be gelling. Holtby is a professional. Losing the glue of Tanev and Markstrom probably hurts.

5)mistakes by coaching staff (be specific)
Not preparing systems. Not psyching up players. Over-using certain players (Edler), under-using certain players (Juolevi). The balance isn't there. Not adapting to events on the ice. Not learning lessons from last season/playoffs (allowing phenomenal amounts of shots and chances and relying on goaltending instead of developing systems).

6)conflict with coaching staff
Who knows. Maybe the players' listlessness is them tuning out the coaching staff. Purely speculative.

7)conflict with management
Don't have anything to back up claims here.

i will put you down for bad coaching systems and utilization, plus some key players struggling.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i have to say i find the usage of gaudette especially to be bizarre. the last two games may have been to much of a fire drill on the bench for the coach to put juolevi out much, but gaudette is not a rookie.

 

[4Twenty]

ok, i will put you down for flawed roster construction and overconfident young team getting a hard dose of reality.

Yes to the first, no to the latter.

If you're going to put me down for anything it's two things, flawed roster and bad coaching. Travis has created a nice room of characters, but on the ice I still don't know what his system is, even last night in the first period, I still found Calgary were at least in the right places and seem to be able to break the puck out with support much easier. Everything feels so hard for the Canucks and to me that's a coaching issue. Breakouts, forecheck, regroup is peewee basics and with the best coaches you can see their influence. I don't know what Travis wants them to do but this isn't just a new year/preseason,, new teammates issue. It's the same issue we've seen under his whole tenure here.

 

[Hodgy]

Under the circumstances letting go of Tanev and Markstrom was unquestionably the right decision.

I don’t think anything this management does is unquestionable.

Also, that’s a pretty meaningless statement as it removes any context when evaluating Benning. Management is an ongoing activity, and discretely evaluating one particular decision, while simply accepting the circumstances, is pretty useless in my opinion.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yes to the first, no to the latter.

If you're going to put me down for anything it's two things, flawed roster and bad coaching. Travis has created a nice room of characters, but on the ice I still don't know what his system is, even last night in the first period, I still found Calgary were at least in the right places and seem to be able to break the puck out with support much easier. Everything feels so hard for the Canucks and to me that's a coaching issue. Breakouts, forecheck, regroup is peewee basics and with the best coaches you can see their influence. I don't know what Travis wants them to do but this isn't just a new year/preseason,, new teammates issue. It's the same issue we've seen under his whole tenure here.

i edited late on bad coaching.

 

[4Twenty]

i have to say i find the usage of gaudette especially to be bizarre. the last two games may have been to much of a fire drill on the bench for the coach to put juolevi out much, but gaudette is not a rookie.

I thought he earned extra attacker duty last night, but they gave it to Tanner instead.

The guy tripled the next most shots on goal for Canucks last night.

 

[Fatass]

Considering this is the “Skid Row” thread, does our GM collect overpaid crappy older players like their dirty used pop cans?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

 

[M2Beezy]

Thats BRUTAL special teams Pastor. More brutal then something less brutal thats for sure

 

[Fatass]

i have to say i find the usage of gaudette especially to be bizarre. the last two games may have been to much of a fire drill on the bench for the coach to put juolevi out much, but gaudette is not a rookie.

Is Juiolevi playing ahead of Rathbone Bennng getting involved in on ice decisions? Clearly “Bone” is the better player. Maybe we have a scenario where Benning wants his pick (Juiolevi) playing ahead of another great Bracket (scouts) pick?