Post-Game Talk: GM 4 | Welcome to Skid Row | Flames def. Canucks 5-2 (Virtanen, Myers)

[Fatass]

Who knows..?..In the cap world , good players are being moved (Schmidt) as teams are scrambling to get under the cap..If our elite players are spending their time depressesed about players coming and going , then we've got a serious problem.

Were Miller’s off season comments about the team’s losing their UFAs those of depression or frustration? Guys want their best chance to win. It’s blatantly obvious to everyone (especially the players) we took steps back this off season. Miller spoke up. We continue this slide (which I believe they will) and we might hear more of the same.

 

[HedonisticAltruism]

I sincerely hope that when Benning is gone, we get a GM with the gravitas, intelligence and personality of a Pat Quinn.

After the soul-crushing experience of the 80's, when Oilers mocked us and Flames handed us our lunch, it was like being transported to the celestial expanse of Elysium, having competent management taking a clusterpuck of epic - nay, legendary - proportions and building a contender.

The same Pat Quinn who was instrumental in alienating arguably the best player the Canucks have ever had in Bure? The same one that let his arrogance get in the way of signing Wayne Gretzky, who, despite in the 'twilight' of his career, put up a 97 and 90 pt season with NYR? That Pat Quinn?

Yeah, no thanks. A think a Cinderella run is tinting your glasses rose.

 

[Fatass]

I think you've been reading too much fan fic.

Rathbone is a project and I've seen you use the skating reference a bunch, but do you recall Matthew Bartkowski? 'nuff said about skating being all you need, same goes for a prosbect like Madison Bowey. He can skate like a dream but you need to bring more than skating fast and shooting hard. I don't think Rathbone is ready but circumstances don't lend well to this being a great development year for any of the AHL level prospects around the league.

Once the “Bone” gets into games he will work his way into our top four. He’s National League ready. Huggy Bear and Bone will be our top minute left side D. Edler can play PK, and lesser 5 on 5 minutes, which will help the team for sure.
Green must be extremely frustrated with whatever political stuff is going on behind the scenes. He’s got to win, or he’s gone.

 

[Fatass]

The same Pat Quinn who was instrumental in alienating arguably the best player the Canucks have ever had in Bure? The same one that let his arrogance get in the way of signing Wayne Gretzky, who, despite in the 'twilight' of his career, put up a 97 and 90 pt season with NYR? That Pat Quinn?

Yeah, no thanks. A think a Cinderella run is tinting your glasses rose.

I think Pat Quinn was a fabulous coach, who was respected by his players. Love to have him here now, and leading this group from behind the bench.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Were Miller’s off season comments about the team’s losing their UFAs those of depression or frustration? Guys want their best chance to win. It’s blatantly obvious to everyone (especially the players) we took steps back this off season. Miller spoke up. We continue this slide (which I believe they will) and we might hear more of the same.

You mean the 'shocking reboot' of bringing young players in...Hoglander and Juolevi.(That's it.!.)..Toffoli and Boeser were never healthy at the same time, and we were one of the top scoring teams in the Western Conference without Toffoli.

From what I've seen, the goaltending hasn't been the issue this season.

Again, if our elite young players cannot mentally deal with fact that teammates come and go..we'll never win a thing anyway.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Juolevi needs to be sent to Utica if he can't be trusted to play more than 7 minutes, or given the opportunity to play more. Making decisions solely because of optics, and not making it look a mistake was made, and double and tripling down on those mistakes is the most frustrating thing about this organization. This is why Gudbranson was given an an extension and raise.

 

[Fatass]

You mean the 'shocking reboot' of bringing young players in...Hoglander and Juolevi.(That's it.!.)..Toffoli and Boeser were never healthy at the same time, and we were one of the top scoring teams in the Western Conference without Toffoli.

From what I've seen, the goaltending hasn't been the issue this season.

Again, if our elite young players cannot mentally deal with fact that teammates come and go..we'll never win a thing anyway.

Very interesting that Miller used that language. He was “shocked” the team’s management didn’t resign three key pieces, and felt that mistake is a “reboot”. Like I said already, players want their best chance to win now; they don’t care about next season. The players know who the most important guys are to the team’s winning. Miller is expressing the kick in the pants he felt seeing three key pieces to his team’s winning let go. The loss of these three key guys is exactly the kind of thing that can be the catalyst to other key guys wanting out. It can create a schism in the room too.

 

[xtra]

You have to do it manually on nhl.com but last years PK was top 10 in October, bottom 10 in both November and December, top 10 in January and then bottom 10 to finish the regular season. Overall the 16th team on the PK so smack in the middle of the league.

Thanks I’ll look into it.

I wonder what the reason for discrepancy is in the rankings is from. I’d guess injuries

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Very interesting that Miller used that language. He was “shocked” the team’s management didn’t resign three key pieces, and felt that mistake is a “reboot”. Like I said already, players want their best chance to win now; they don’t care about next season. The players know who the most important guys are to the team’s winning. Miller is expressing the kick in the pants he felt seeing three key pieces to his team’s winning let go. The loss of these three key guys is exactly the kind of thing that can be the catalyst to other key guys wanting out. It can create a schism in the room too.

Not interested in re starting the hyperbolic 'shocking rebuild reboot' debate...as it obviously didn't happen.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

You mean the 'shocking reboot' of bringing young players in...Hoglander and Juolevi.(That's it.!.)..Toffoli and Boeser were never healthy at the same time, and we were one of the top scoring teams in the Western Conference without Toffoli.

Right, but that "top scoring Western Conference team without Toffoli" included Josh Leivo, who was producing at a 45-point pace before his injury. So either way you rationalize it, by losing Toffoli and Leivo (one of whom was healthy all year), the Canucks offense unquestionably got worse.

 

[MS]

The same Pat Quinn who was instrumental in alienating arguably the best player the Canucks have ever had in Bure? The same one that let his arrogance get in the way of signing Wayne Gretzky, who, despite in the 'twilight' of his career, put up a 97 and 90 pt season with NYR? That Pat Quinn?

Yeah, no thanks. A think a Cinderella run is tinting your glasses rose.

Gretzky was using the hell out of us and double-dealing to get a better offer from NYR. They were 100% correct to do what they did there. He was never going to play here.

 

[Fatass]

Juolevi needs to be sent to Utica if he can't be trusted to play more than 7 minutes, or given the opportunity to play more. Making decisions solely because of optics, and not making it look a mistake was made, and double and tripling down on those mistakes is the most frustrating thing about this organization. This is why Gudbranson was given an an extension and raise.

Baertchi got a contract, as did Sutter. Then Jake last off season. Benning really has trouble with admitting he messed up, and cut losses. Like you say, he “doubles down” on his mistakes. Just terrible management.

 

[4Twenty]

Thanks I’ll look into it.

I wonder what the reason for discrepancy is in the rankings is from. I’d guess injuries

Luck and goaltending. coincides with the losing streak in November/December and the winning streak in January. Markstrom was hurt to end the season too.

The Canucks aren't a good PK team, they had unreal goaltending. I would say they're bottom 10 and I'm guessing we'll see that this year without Markstrom.

 

[Fatass]

Right, but that "top scoring Western Conference team without Toffoli" included Josh Leivo, who was producing at a 45-point pace before his injury. So either way you rationalize it, by losing Toffoli and Leivo (one of whom was healthy all year), the Canucks offense unquestionably got worse.

Marky gave the guys confidence, and that influences offence too. Keeping Marky and trading Demko just made so much sense.

 

[Nucker101]

15th in Sv% at 5 on 5

17th in shooting% at 5 on 5.

4th worst High Danger Corsi against per 60 at 5 on 5. Their contemporaries are LA, Anaheim, Arizona and San Jose here.

5th worst scoring chance against per 60 at 5 on 5.

2nd worst expected-goals against per 60 at 5 on 5.

This looks a lot like every other Travis Green season.

This is what I use @Luckylarry

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Yup. Matches up well with the eye test as well. A weak 5v5 system that bleeds shots/scoring chances and doesn't generate enough either. The only reasons why this team didn't tank hard last season was Marky standing on his head + the talent of the top offensive stars carrying the team thanks to great finishing ability at 5v5 and the PP.

The only reason why Green still has a job now is due to Marky and the offensive talent of his top players. His system is terrible. There's coaches out there who have less high end talent to work with that manage to get better 5v5 play out of their teams, but just don't get the same level of goaltending and/or finishing ability to actually get results.

Green will get exposed this season if Holtby/Demko aren't as good as Marky has been and the PP takes a step back.

It's amazing how lazy most of the hockey media or "analysts" are with their takes, basically any coach who's fortunate to get great goaltending gets praised for "getting the most out of his team" like Green is after the playoff run and then there's coaches who do a solid job but get let down by mediocre goaltending and lack of finishers provided by their GM who end up getting fired.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Right, but that "top scoring Western Conference team without Toffoli" included Josh Leivo, who was producing at a 45-point pace before his injury. So either way you rationalize it, by losing Toffoli and Leivo (one of whom was healthy all year), the Canucks offense unquestionably got worse.

Leivo went down in Dec 2019...Toffoli and Boeser were never healthy at the same time..

I liked Leivo as a player, and it was a blow that we didnt re sign him..However, I think he will be replaced by a player from within.

I dont think the offence suffered greatly this season...more of a lateral move.

 

[4Twenty]

Yup. Matches up well with the eye test as well. A weak 5v5 system that bleeds shots/scoring chances and doesn't generate enough either. The only reasons why this team didn't tank hard last season was Marky standing on his head + the talent of the top offensive stars carrying the team thanks to great finishing ability at 5v5 and the PP.

The only reason why Green still has a job now is due to Marky and the offensive talent of his top players. His system is terrible. There's coaches out there who have less high end talent to work with that manage to get better 5v5 play out of their teams, but just don't get the same level of goaltending and/or finishing ability to actually get results.

Green will get exposed this season if Holtby/Demko aren't as good as Marky has been and the PP takes a step back.

It's amazing how lazy most of the hockey media or "analysts" are with their takes, basically any coach who's fortunate to get great goaltending gets praised for "getting the most out of his team" like Green is after the playoff run and then there's coaches who do a solid job but get let down by mediocre goaltending and lack of finishers provided by their GM who end up getting fired.

Yeah, it's ridiculous to suggest the poor specialty teams is the reason the team is having a poor start. They're being eviscerated at 5 on 5, last night it was 25 to 10 for scoring chances at 5 on 5. Even the night before, where Travis said they were even and low like around 6 or 7 a piecem NaturalStattrick had them 21-13 for Calgary.

They're getting dominated and have been lucky not to give up more goals.

 

[xtra]

Luck and goaltending. coincides with the losing streak in November/December and the winning streak in January. Markstrom was hurt to end the season too.

The Canucks aren't a good PK team, they had unreal goaltending. I would say they're bottom 10 and I'm guessing we'll see that this year without Markstrom.

I did a quick look and if you actually remove October where they had an outlier 90% on the penalty kill the team killed penalties at about a 80% rate and was 20th in the league.

With that said their power lay tanked in like feb which lowered their actual power Play % for the rest of the year.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Yeah, it's ridiculous to suggest the poor specialty teams is the reason the team is having a poor start. They're being eviscerated at 5 on 5, last night it was 25 to 10 for scoring chances at 5 on 5. Even the night before, where Travis said they were even and low like around 6 or 7 a piecem NaturalStattrick had them 21-13 for Calgary.

They're getting dominated and have been lucky not to give up more goals.

Still getting solid goaltending, just not vezina level which 6m was too expensive for so ive been told.

Difference between a 2-1 game we might have a chance to come back, and the 4+ goals against the chances to come back diminish significantly.

Oh also stetcher and Tanev were insignificant and Schmidt makes up for it no problem allegedly, except for not in reality.

 

[Ginger Papa]

Just wanted to throw some humour in here to break up the negativity a bit

 

[Fatass]

Still getting solid goaltending, just not vezina level which 6m was too expensive for so ive been told.

Difference between a 2-1 game we might have a chance to come back, and the 4+ goals against the chances to come back diminish significantly.

Oh also stetcher and Tanev were insignificant and Schmidt makes up for it no problem allegedly, except for not in reality.

Doesn’t what Tanev and Stecher signed their new deals for almost exactly match what Schmidt gets paid?

 

[tantalum]

Well that too, but we lost key personnel forwards and defence men that made our barely playoff team last year.

Yes but the cap issues didn’t just materialize. There are people responsible for that part of things and that was the issue. Not the cap but an improperly managed cap. Sometimes forgivable if you had success and pay that price. Not forgivable if you have yet to have success and are supposedly at the end of a rebuild. That’s the reason I don’t like to simply say “what else could they do?”. Tampa gets to shrug shoulders and say that. The Blues get to say that. The Canucks don’t.

 

[mathonwy]

You mean the 'shocking reboot' of bringing young players in...Hoglander and Juolevi.(That's it.!.)..Toffoli and Boeser were never healthy at the same time, and we were one of the top scoring teams in the Western Conference without Toffoli.

From what I've seen, the goaltending hasn't been the issue this season.

Again, if our elite young players cannot mentally deal with fact that teammates come and go..we'll never win a thing anyway.

Holy shit.

Are you listening to yourself?

Blaming the players?

What’s wrong with you?

Have you EVER been part of a team?

Tanev and Markstrom were the longest tenured and highest performing veterans last season.

And now they’re gone and even worse, our team has to play against them multiple times this season.

I cannot imagine any of next gen Canucks being at all happy about this situation.

They want to win and from their immediate standpoint letting T&M go to Calgary is the opposite of that objective.

ESPECIALLY considering what they accomplished last playoffs.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Holy shit.

Are you listening to yourself?

Blaming the players?

What’s wrong with you?

Have you EVER been part of a team?

Tanev and Markstrom were the longest tenured and highest performing veterans last season.

And now they’re gone and even worse, our team has to play against them multiple times this season.

I cannot imagine any of next gen Canucks being at all happy about this situation.

They want to win and from their immediate standpoint letting T&M go to Calgary is the opposite of that objective.

ESPECIALLY considering what they accomplished last playoffs.

So, they should have given Marky 6x6 and an NMC..?..and given Tanev the retirement contract?

 

[MS]

So, they should have given Marky 6x6 and an NMC..?..and given Tanev the retirement contract?

They should have put the team in a position where those players could have been retained at reasonable deals without putting us in cap hell.