General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Raccoon Jesus]

I can understand the reluctance of some segments of the population to get vaccinated, especially healthy people that are 20-40 years of age. There are some issues regarding myocarditis in young men which are not well understood.

It's a personal choice. I have been vaccinated, so I guess I don't consider it a public health issue as much as an individual one, since everyone has had an equal opportunity to get fully vaccinated.

What's helpful towards the 'personal choice' in this case is how it appears to be almost completely unvaccinated folks that are still getting hit with it.

When it was masking/social distancing I believe there was a good argument to be made about where freedoms clash--ie your 'right' to not wear a mask vs. my 'right' to public safety--but in this case, if someone else wants to risk it and go unvaccinated but I'm like 99% safe? Have at it. This is what we were going for and it would be hypocritical to turn against that now.

 

[KINGS17]

What's helpful towards the 'personal choice' in this case is how it appears to be almost completely unvaccinated folks that are still getting hit with it.

When it was masking/social distancing I believe there was a good argument to be made about where freedoms clash--ie your 'right' to not wear a mask vs. my 'right' to public safety--but in this case, if someone else wants to risk it and go unvaccinated but I'm like 99% safe? Have at it. This is what we were going for and it would be hypocritical to turn against that now.

Agree, prior to the vaccine and its widespread distribution it was appropriate to wear a mask to protect others from yourself. Giving someone COVID-19 is the last thing I wanted on my conscience.

 

[Gjwrams]

What's helpful towards the 'personal choice' in this case is how it appears to be almost completely unvaccinated folks that are still getting hit with it.

When it was masking/social distancing I believe there was a good argument to be made about where freedoms clash--ie your 'right' to not wear a mask vs. my 'right' to public safety--but in this case, if someone else wants to risk it and go unvaccinated but I'm like 99% safe? Have at it. This is what we were going for and it would be hypocritical to turn against that now.

Yep. It's to keep the unvaccinated from all getting sick at once. People dying and getting sick is bad business for politicians. It's very frustrating.

Part of me wants to get all the unvaccinated in an enclosed stadium, just like our parents did when one kid got the chicken pox. "Go play with your sisters and brothers in this locked bedroom for a few hours. Get it over with. LOL

 

[Lt Dan]

Thread by @angie_rasmussen on Thread Reader App

A good read about the Delta and why it is more transmissable

 

[Rusty Batch]

There really is three groups of people though, there is the vaccinated, the unvaccinated that have never had covid, and the unvaccinated who have already had covid.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Thread by @angie_rasmussen on Thread Reader App

A good read about the Delta and why it is more transmissable

really really good read

 

[KINGS17]

...and LA County is going to mandate wearing masks inside again. Very interesting...(and Artie Johnson can finish the line).

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Southern Nevada Health District has issued a mask "recommendation" for all persons vaccinated or not. I would imagine if cases keep climbing in Nevada, the state will issue another universal mask mandate.

I work with the public a lot, and recently encountered a super anti-vax family who all contracted delta. Their 19 year old daughter, however, had been vaccinated. Lo and behold, she was the only one who didn't get sick.

The dad is currently in the hospital with delta. The mom and other children are all very ill at home. The mom said it completely changed their stance on vaccination and the pandemic in general.

Part of the problem with people and vaccinations is incomplete or compromised risk assessment. You can't perform a proper risk assessment on getting Covid vs getting vaccinated if "all the numbers about Covid are made up."

This is the unfortunate mindset some people have. Their inability to accept or believe the dangers of Covid is directly influencing their decision to forego vaccination. And once they are exposed to Covid, they change their tune pretty fast.

I don't know anyone who believes the official Covid statistics and also refused vaccination. Because if you accept the official Covid statistics, getting the vaccine is a no brainer.

I'm just at a loss for how many millions of people in the country distrust our basic medical institutions and regulatory bodies. Healthy skepticism has evolved into full blown paranoia.

 

[Lt Dan]

I'm just at a loss for how many millions of people in the country distrust our basic medical institutions and regulatory bodies. Healthy skepticism has evolved into full blown paranoia.

I blame a lot of it on the media. Especially social media

 

[fivehole32]

...and LA County is going to mandate wearing masks inside again. Very interesting...(and Artie Johnson can finish the line).

I'm not too old, but I watched enough Laugh In on Nick at Nite to get it. I don't want to say either, I don't need a MODerator to Sock It to Me.

 

[Lt Dan]

I randomly checked the OC website looking for something and they updated the numbers today rather than on Tuesday and they are going back to daily updates!!

This was last Tuesday's #s

These are today's, which are 7/14-today (6 days)

Not good
Cases are up big time from the 50 per day avg that we had. This averages out to 259 a day
ICU numbers took off since Tuesday

The good news hear, because I am a silver lining looking motherf***er, is that hospitalization hasn't changed proportionately with the cases and ICU .
ICU went up about 240% since Tuesday and hosp numbers went up less than 20%.

 

[Lt Dan]

And since we all love pictures, here are some 1980's looking shit for your visual pleasure

For perspective, the 7 day case average on 7/11/20 was 871
the 7 day case average on 7/11/21 is 168

 

[Lt Dan]

7/18/20- Hosp 665 and ICU 214
7/18/21 Hosp 140 and ICU 59

 

[Lt Dan]

7 day averages
July 18 2020 69,914
July 18 '21 31,788

Our peak day last year for the summer surge was July 24 with 79,549, we are VERY likely going to have a later date this on this surge, but this numbers are very encouraging

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I hate to sound blunt, but 'working as intended.'

Vaccinated people are relatively safe.

Those who choose not to be vaccinated are not.

I feel for the heathcare professionals and hope that they remain safe and not get overwhelmed again but otherwise this is all playing out as pretty much hoped/expected. 99.6% of LA county's cases are those who were not vaccinated. Choices have consequences, but choices, they are.

 

[fivehole32]

I hate to sound blunt, but 'working as intended.'

Vaccinated people are relatively safe.

Those who choose not to be vaccinated are not.

I feel for the heathcare professionals and hope that they remain safe and not get overwhelmed again but otherwise this is all playing out as pretty much hoped/expected. 99.6% of LA county's cases are those who were not vaccinated. Choices have consequences, but choices, they are.

Reminds me of Rush Lyrics, and I'm not talking about Tom Sawyer.

 

[Lt Dan]

I hate to sound blunt, but 'working as intended.'

Vaccinated people are relatively safe.

Those who choose not to be vaccinated are not.

I feel for the heathcare professionals and hope that they remain safe and not get overwhelmed again but otherwise this is all playing out as pretty much hoped/expected. 99.6% of LA county's cases are those who were not vaccinated. Choices have consequences, but choices, they are.

which of course has to bring up multiple questions of sustainability of this surge.
How long can it go on?
Are we better getting it now than this winter?
Why is this cat's voice so deep?

 

[Rusty Batch]

I hate to sound blunt, but 'working as intended.'

Vaccinated people are relatively safe.

Those who choose not to be vaccinated are not.

I feel for the heathcare professionals and hope that they remain safe and not get overwhelmed again but otherwise this is all playing out as pretty much hoped/expected. 99.6% of LA county's cases are those who were not vaccinated. Choices have consequences, but choices, they are.

Unless they have already had covid, then they are safe.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Unless they have already had covid, then they are safe.

That's not even true with the Delta variant. This is admittedly anecdotal, but a friend who had Covid this winter (and was incredibly sick) and received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine in May messaged me on Friday with a picture of a positive Covid PCR test from his doctor. He's not nearly as sick this time (he said it's like a standard cold) but he still got reinfected after having natural and vaccine immunity built up.

 

[Rusty Batch]

That's not even true with the Delta variant. This is admittedly anecdotal, but a friend who had Covid this winter (and was incredibly sick) and received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine in May messaged me on Friday with a picture of a positive Covid PCR test from his doctor. He's not nearly as sick this time (he said it's like a standard cold) but he still got reinfected after having natural and vaccine immunity built up.

He didn't get that sick because he had antibodies, no?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

He didn't get that sick because he had antibodies, no?

That is true. I meant to include that it seems like his prior immunity (natural and vaccine) has prevented him from getting really sick this time (he said just basic cold symptoms this time).

 

[Fishhead]

Unless they have already had covid, then they are safe.

I would imagine that depends on a couple factors, but primarily age. My parents got it - father really bad, Mother was asymptomatic. He finally got his 2nd shot this month after getting his first in January (right before he came down with it). My mother got hers on schedule, in February. When they tested my dad's antibodies, even though he'd had it a month ago they weren't particularly high.

A co-worker in her early 20's got it way back in November right around Thanksgiving. I just talked to her last week and they still won't give her a shot, they tested her antibodies and they are like 10x higher than what they see in vaccinated people. I thought she was making stuff up but she was totally serious and kind of pissed she couldn't get vaccinated. I'm completely confident her case is an outlier, but an interesting one.

It's no secret that the younger you are the more robust your immune response is, but I wouldn't have expected it to be that extreme. It could be totally coincidental, but it makes sense. I'm sure having COVID already makes one safer, but I wouldn't bank on vaccinated equivalency in most cases. The million-dollar question is are people who have had COVID before less likely to spread the infection to others because of lower virus loads, and I'm sure the answer to that is years away. Personally, I feel pretty safe around my friends who have had it before, vaccinated or not. The only reason we don't hang out is because I have unvaccinated kids and want to minimize their risk.

 

[Lt Dan]

Los Angeles Hospitals Hit By “Significant” Increase In Covid Patients

There were 528 people with Covid-19 hospitalized as of today; last Monday, there were 372 people hospitalized. That’s a 42% rise in one week. On June 15, when California dropped its pandemic restrictions, there were 218 people hospitalized. Cases have increased 700% since June 15, and the L.A. Department Public Health said today that “we are now beginning to see corresponding increases in hospitalizations.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I would imagine that depends on a couple factors, but primarily age. My parents got it - father really bad, Mother was asymptomatic. He finally got his 2nd shot this month after getting his first in January (right before he came down with it). My mother got hers on schedule, in February. When they tested my dad's antibodies, even though he'd had it a month ago they weren't particularly high.

A co-worker in her early 20's got it way back in November right around Thanksgiving. I just talked to her last week and they still won't give her a shot, they tested her antibodies and they are like 10x higher than what they see in vaccinated people. I thought she was making stuff up but she was totally serious and kind of pissed she couldn't get vaccinated. I'm completely confident her case is an outlier, but an interesting one.

It's no secret that the younger you are the more robust your immune response is, but I wouldn't have expected it to be that extreme. It could be totally coincidental, but it makes sense. I'm sure having COVID already makes one safer, but I wouldn't bank on vaccinated equivalency in most cases. The million-dollar question is are people who have had COVID before less likely to spread the infection to others because of lower virus loads, and I'm sure the answer to that is years away. Personally, I feel pretty safe around my friends who have had it before, vaccinated or not. The only reason we don't hang out is because I have unvaccinated kids and want to minimize their risk.

My point is only that there is at worst very similar protection provided from infection and vaccination. Yet for some reason that gets almost completely overlooked. If people want to provide data suggesting otherwise then I am all ears.

Once someone gets covid they have excellent protection, doesn't mean that there are zero exceptions. There are also thousands of breakthrough cases in the US where people have died or been hospitalized after vaccination, and likewise it doesn't mean that the vaccine isn't effective.

I see alot of people (not just here) segmenting the population into just two groups. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated, and essentially what they are doing is separating them into two groups the informed vs the ignorant/conspiracy theorists. Even our government does it by giving the former more freedom than the latter. I don't see any reason why someone with natural immunity should be viewed differently as someone with a vaccine.

At least give people the opportunity to receive an antibody test in lieu of a vaccine. And hopefully people don't misconstru this as a political post, not my intention, I just think there needs to be a bit more common sense and honesty in our approach to some of this stuff in order to get more people on board.

 

[Fishhead]

My point is only that there is at worst very similar protection provided from infection and vaccination. Yet for some reason that gets almost completely overlooked. If people want to provide data suggesting otherwise then I am all ears.

Once someone gets covid they have excellent protection, doesn't mean that there are zero exceptions. There are also thousands of breakthrough cases in the US where people have died or been hospitalized after vaccination, and likewise it doesn't mean that the vaccine isn't effective.

I see alot of people (not just here) segmenting the population into just two groups. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated, and essentially what they are doing is separating them into two groups the informed vs the ignorant/conspiracy theorists. Even our government does it by giving the former more freedom than the latter. I don't see any reason why someone with natural immunity should be viewed differently as someone with a vaccine.

At least give people the opportunity to receive an antibody test in lieu of a vaccine. And hopefully people don't misconstru this as a political post, not my intention, I just think there needs to be a bit more common sense and honesty in our approach to some of this stuff in order to get more people on board.

Yeah, they definitely have some protection, it's just not the same. You know people and grey areas though, they hate them.

I think that last part is a great idea. If your antibodies are up and you are unvaccinated that's a pretty good indication you are going to have a decent amount of defense if you get exposed. Definitely impress upon that that eventually they should get the vaccine when they feel safer about it, if that's their hold up, because the immunity might not stick around. Delta makes that a bit sketchy because there are little data right now that differentiates between the protection from antibodies produced by the vaccine or a previous infection. Odds are they aren't the same, but I can't see them being meaningfully different.