GDT: Game 2: Wild @ Avs - 8 PM CT / 4 AM Finland - FS-N

[Wabit]

He is also generating shots and shots on goal while being there, a procedure needed for scoring goals.

pfft. Zucker and Parise disagree with that statement. Just stand in front of the net and let the d-men shoot.

 

[Aceofspades]

Why are people trying to 4th line Koivu? He's playing the same game with the same speed that he a few years ago when the Wild had one of the best lines in the NHL with the Zucker/Koivu/Granny line.

He isn't the most active center in the o-zone, no. But if you watch how the other 4 on the ice play he doesn't need to be. His d-zone play allows one wing to cheat out of the zone. It also allows a d-man to float higher in the d-zone and join in the rush the other way. That d-man (Spurgeon/Dumba mostly) then becomes the F3 going into the o-zone.

Look at the points for both Spurgeon and Suter before and after Koivu was lost for the season last year. Suter went from a .68 ppg pace to a .38 ppg pace; Spurgeon went from a .60 ppg pace to a .38 ppg pace.

Koivu has still value if used for what he is good at with the right linemates, he has never been an offensive dynamo and asking him to be one nearing retirement is asking for too much,

 

[Bazeek]

It looks like he saw a ton of o-zone starts, which probably helps.

The number of shot attempts is encouraging though.

 

[2Pair]

It looks like he saw a ton of o-zone starts, which probably helps.

The number of shot attempts is encouraging though.

Until you realize that Kunin and Parise are both players that throw everything at the net. Crossing the blueline and throwing a weak wrister at the goalie is considered a great play by Corsi. In reality it's nothing more than a turnover. The scoring chances are a good sign for Kunin, but if you look deeper into the icetime/usage/linemates it isn't Kunin creating them.

Kunin has been given the most icetime of all forwards through 2 games and has been used exclusivley in offensive situations. He has produced zero offense.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Until you realize that Kunin and Parise are both players that throw everything at the net. Crossing the blueline and throwing a weak wrister at the goalie is considered a great play by Corsi. In reality it's nothing more than a turnover. The scoring chances are a good sign for Kunin, but if you look deeper into the icetime/usage/linemates it isn't Kunin creating them.

Kunin has been given the most icetime of all forwards through 2 games and has been used exclusivley in offensive situations. He has produced zero offense.

Kunin
Greenway
Koivu
Donato
Zuccarello

The top 5 in terms of ES ice time. They have one point total between the 5 of them and that's an assist for old man Koivu. Kunin hasn't produced much offense yet, but neither has anybody else. But nobody brings them up even though Kunin is the youngest of the bunch.

PP
Fiala
Zucker
Staal
Parise
Zuccarello

Top 5 forwards for PP ice time. All with over 2 minutes and 45 seconds of PP time per game. Parise and Zucker had shots brush off them for goals. Realistically speaking, the only offense from ANYTHING on this team is coming from the offensive defensemen we have.

PK
Eriksson Ek
Foligno
Koivu
Kunin
Hartman

87.5% penalty kill is pretty good. Not going to harp on these guys if they continue at this rate.

Kunin, Greenway, Donato, and Fiala are getting prime opportunities to provide offense. With the oldest being 23, they are all still learning how to play in the NHL. In this moment right now it sucks because they have ZERO points between them. But look for these guys to pay dividends in the future. Maybe in time for Kaprizov and Boldy to come in and be the new kids on the block.

Statistically speaking, Kunin and Greenway are the best offensive offensive forwards on the team through 2 games. They are 1-2 in xGF, SCF, HDCF, HDCF %, and Off Z Start %.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why are people trying to 4th line Koivu? He's playing the same game with the same speed that he a few years ago when the Wild had one of the best lines in the NHL with the Zucker/Koivu/Granny line.

He isn't the most active center in the o-zone, no. But if you watch how the other 4 on the ice play he doesn't need to be. His d-zone play allows one wing to cheat out of the zone. It also allows a d-man to float higher in the d-zone and join in the rush the other way. That d-man (Spurgeon/Dumba mostly) then becomes the F3 going into the o-zone.

Look at the points for both Spurgeon and Suter before and after Koivu was lost for the season last year. Suter went from a .68 ppg pace to a .38 ppg pace; Spurgeon went from a .60 ppg pace to a .38 ppg pace.

To be fair, it was one person, and I’m not even sure he/she knew where they were at the time.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah, I don't think that the stats are saying that Kunin has been great, or even good. But I think they might be saying that he hasn't been as irrelevant as my eyes were telling me he was. Not the biggest compliment, but it's something.

 

[2Pair]

Kunin
Greenway
Koivu
Donato
Zuccarello

The top 5 in terms of ES ice time. They have one point total between the 5 of them and that's an assist for old man Koivu. Kunin hasn't produced much offense yet, but neither has anybody else. But nobody brings them up even though Kunin is the youngest of the bunch.

PP
Fiala
Zucker
Staal
Parise
Zuccarello

Top 5 forwards for PP ice time. All with over 2 minutes and 45 seconds of PP time per game. Parise and Zucker had shots brush off them for goals. Realistically speaking, the only offense from ANYTHING on this team is coming from the offensive defensemen we have.

PK
Eriksson Ek
Foligno
Koivu
Kunin
Hartman

87.5% penalty kill is pretty good. Not going to harp on these guys if they continue at this rate.

Kunin, Greenway, Donato, and Fiala are getting prime opportunities to provide offense. With the oldest being 23, they are all still learning how to play in the NHL. In this moment right now it sucks because they have ZERO points between them. But look for these guys to pay dividends in the future. Maybe in time for Kaprizov and Boldy to come in and be the new kids on the block.

Statistically speaking, Kunin and Greenway are the best offensive offensive forwards on the team through 2 games. They are 1-2 in xGF, SCF, HDCF, HDCF %, and Off Z Start %.

Kunin is being talked about because the discussion has been about the center position.

 

[Webster]

Based on performance the top line should be Zucker-Koivu-Zuccarello. The other lines may suffer a bit, but they need to start scoring. Koivu is by far the best on face offs. And ZZ haven't even played together yet, try it!

 

[Aceofspades]

Kunin is being talked about because the discussion has been about the center position.

He is still the best center in this team in these two games played, that was the discussion.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He is still the best center in this team in these two games played, that was the discussion.

2nd best, at best.

 

[2Pair]

He is still the best center in this team in these two games played, that was the discussion.

You're still wrong

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Based on performance the top line should be Zucker-Koivu-Zuccarello. The other lines may suffer a bit, but they need to start scoring. Koivu is by far the best on face offs. And ZZ haven't even played together yet, try it!

I wouldn't hate to see that line together, but your guy isn't blameless for the offensive struggles we're seeing either.

 

[Aceofspades]

Until you realize that Kunin and Parise are both players that throw everything at the net. Crossing the blueline and throwing a weak wrister at the goalie is considered a great play by Corsi. In reality it's nothing more than a turnover. The scoring chances are a good sign for Kunin, but if you look deeper into the icetime/usage/linemates it isn't Kunin creating them.

Kunin has been given the most icetime of all forwards through 2 games and has been used exclusivley in offensive situations. He has produced zero offense.

This only deserves an animated GIF answer but someone deleted it.
Kunin has generated shots and shots on goal while having offensive possesion time, if that is producing zero offense then rest of the players are garbage for sure.
Denying facts and laughing of statistics means you have an agenda other that finding out the facts and then discussing the reasons and implications..
I would assume most people come here for analytical discussions about their favourite teams and hockey in general.

 

[Bazeek]

This only deserves an animated GIF answer but someone deleted it.
Kunin has generated shots and shots on goal while having offensive possesion time, if that is producing zero offense then rest of the players are garbage for sure.
Denying facts and laughing of statistics means you have an agenda other that finding out the facts and then discussing the reasons and implications..
I would assume most people come here for analytical discussions about their favourite teams and hockey in general.

Did you watch the team play last night?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

This only deserves an animated GIF answer but someone deleted it.
Kunin has generated shots and shots on goal while having offensive possesion time, if that is producing zero offense then rest of the players are garbage for sure.
Denying facts and laughing of statistics means you have an agenda other that finding out the facts and then discussing the reasons and implications..
I would assume most people come here for analytical discussions about their favourite teams and hockey in general.

Given Kunin's 5v5 usage and deployment, if he didn't have the numbers he did, it would be a pretty big disappointment.

 

[Webster]

I wouldn't hate to see that line together, but your guy isn't blameless for the offensive struggles we're seeing either.

Just don't let him carry Staal, who's been a total disaster.
This is a waste of Zuccarello's skills, play him with a more productive center.

 

[2Pair]

Based on performance the top line should be Zucker-Koivu-Zuccarello. The other lines may suffer a bit, but they need to start scoring. Koivu is by far the best on face offs. And ZZ haven't even played together yet, try it!

Based on performance, Zuccarello should be a healthy scratch at this point.

 

[2Pair]

This only deserves an animated GIF answer but someone deleted it.
Kunin has generated shots and shots on goal while having offensive possesion time, if that is producing zero offense then rest of the players are garbage for sure.
Denying facts and laughing of statistics means you have an agenda other that finding out the facts and then discussing the reasons and implications..
I would assume most people come here for analytical discussions about their favourite teams and hockey in general.

I already explained to you why the analytics are saying what they are saying. The fact that you can't comprehend that isn't my problem.

 

[Aceofspades]

2nd best, at best.

Well they are close with Koivu, Koivu can still be an elite defensive center when he is played the right way with the right linemates.
Kunin is also a 200-foot player but has more offensive upside than Koivu had when he came in the league.

 

[Aceofspades]

Based on performance, Zuccarello should be a healthy scratch at this point.

Nice that we can agree on something, just not a fan of the player, hope to see him gone soon as possible in some way.

 

[Aceofspades]

I already explained to you why the analytics are saying what they are saying. The fact that you can't comprehend that isn't my problem.

For you a shot on goal is a turnover, you have you own analytics going on clearly.

 

[2Pair]

For you a shot on goal is a turnover, you have you own analytics going on clearly.

For me, certain types of shots are nothing more than a turnover. And for you, every shot is considered equal. That's the difference between someone who understands analytics, and someone who thinks that Corsi is still relevant.

 

[Aceofspades]

Did you watch the team play last night?

Not yet, watched the first game, have seen "highlights" of the second.
This is not relevant if there are no other arguments coming out other than weak wristers dont count as offense.
Yes they do if that is all that there was, this is a weak team at offense and being the best in a forward position is not much to brag about.

 

[2Pair]

Nice that we can agree on something, just not a fan of the player, hope to see him gone soon as possible in some way.

I'm a Zuccarello fan and don't want to see him gone at all. But, he hasn't been good. The only difference between him and Staal is Zuccarello is actually responsible for a couple of the goals that Staal took the blame for.