GDT: Game 2: Wild @ Avs - 8 PM CT / 4 AM Finland - FS-N

[2Pair]

Not yet, watched the first game, have seen "highlights" of the second.
This is not relevant if there are no other arguments coming out other than weak wristers dont count as offense.
Yes they do if that is all that there was, this is a weak team at offense and being the best in a forward position is not much to brag about.

And, you're done.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Kunin is being talked about because the discussion has been about the center position.

Which is funny then that his numbers say he (and his line) is/are the most productive forward(s) in terms of generating chances and scoring opportunities. What's that say about the other forwards? What's that say about Staal and Eriksson Ek? Speaking of centers. You're sitting here blaming a guy who is statistically outproducing everyone except for a few lucky bounces off of our forwards. Kunin should be playing right winger. It's not his fault that Staal is playing like a 4th liner or that Eriksson Ek IS a 4th liner. It's not his fault that he was forced back in at center because guys like Donato and Greenway are incompetent when it comes to playing the center position. The guy is literally 21 years old and you expect him to have everything about playing top 6 center figured out.

Unrealistic expectations. People bitched on this site for years that our young players never get the chance to be in a position to succeed. Now people are bitching because they are getting that opportunity and so far through two freakin' road games it hasn't worked out.

But you know what the sad part is? The vets are NOT putting the pressure on BB to replace the younger players with excellent play. So here we sit. 0-2-0. Every single forward has been garbage. Will finish in mediocrity cause trading the vets is a no-no and eventually they will string enough wins together just to miss the playoffs and pick 14th in the draft, drafting another mediocre forward for this mediocre team.

 

[Aceofspades]

For me, certain types of shots are nothing more than a turnover. And for you, every shot is considered equal. That's the difference between someone who understands analytics, and someone who thinks that Corsi is still relevant.

Every shot towards the general direction of the goal creates a potential scoring chance, how ever small the percentage, that is a fact.
These shots naturally always need to be followed up with agressive play, failing to do so drastically brings down the percentage.
Do you see plays that are not played to the end or other options that are not used?
If so what could be the reason behind giving up posession with, in your opinion, low quality shots?

 

[Bazeek]

Not yet, watched the first game, have seen "highlights" of the second.
This is not relevant if there are no other arguments coming out other than weak wristers dont count as offense.
Yes they do if that is all that there was, this is a weak team at offense and being the best in a forward position is not much to brag about.

It's relevant to my understanding of your posts, which seemed to be based purely on the statistics. If you think that looking at the stats from last night is enough to conclude that Kunin was actually our best center, there's not a lot to discuss.

 

[AKL]

Dumba is pretty good though

On pace for 82 goals

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Well they are close with Koivu, Koivu can still be an elite defensive center when he is played the right way with the right linemates.
Kunin is also a 200-foot player but has more offensive upside than Koivu had when he came in the league.

Boudreau seems to be doing everything he can right now to make sure that Kunin doesn't have to be a 200 foot player.

Koivu's offensive upside was a 70 point player. I'd be shocked if Kunin gets there.

 

[2Pair]

Which is funny then that his numbers say he (and his line) is/are the most productive forward(s) in terms of generating chances and scoring opportunities. What's that say about the other forwards? What's that say about Staal and Eriksson Ek? Speaking of centers. You're sitting here blaming a guy who is statistically outproducing everyone except for a few lucky bounces off of our forwards. Kunin should be playing right winger. It's not his fault that Staal is playing like a 4th liner or that Eriksson Ek IS a 4th liner. It's not his fault that he was forced back in at center because guys like Donato and Greenway are incompetent when it comes to playing the center position. The guy is literally 21 years old and you expect him to have everything about playing top 6 center figured out.

Unrealistic expectations. People *****ed on this site for years that our young players never get the chance to be in a position to succeed. Now people are *****ing because they are getting that opportunity and so far through two freakin' road games it hasn't worked out.

But you know what the sad part is? The vets are NOT putting the pressure on BB to replace the younger players with excellent play. So here we sit. 0-2-0. Every single forward has been garbage. Will finish in mediocrity cause trading the vets is a no-no and eventually they will string enough wins together just to miss the playoffs and pick 14th in the draft, drafting another mediocre forward for this mediocre team.

Another guy that didn't watch the game but wants to break it down.

 

[Bazeek]

Dumba is pretty good though

On pace for 82 goals

Got cut to 41, unfortunately.

 

[Aceofspades]

And, you're done.

Watching a game and seeing it enforcing you own agenda against facts is not giving a very level-headed impression of yourself.

 

[AKL]

Got cut to 41, unfortunately.

They're going to regret what they've done. He'll go out and get 2 next game.

 

[Aceofspades]

Which is funny then that his numbers say he (and his line) is/are the most productive forward(s) in terms of generating chances and scoring opportunities. What's that say about the other forwards? What's that say about Staal and Eriksson Ek? Speaking of centers. You're sitting here blaming a guy who is statistically outproducing everyone except for a few lucky bounces off of our forwards. Kunin should be playing right winger. It's not his fault that Staal is playing like a 4th liner or that Eriksson Ek IS a 4th liner. It's not his fault that he was forced back in at center because guys like Donato and Greenway are incompetent when it comes to playing the center position. The guy is literally 21 years old and you expect him to have everything about playing top 6 center figured out.

Unrealistic expectations. People *****ed on this site for years that our young players never get the chance to be in a position to succeed. Now people are *****ing because they are getting that opportunity and so far through two freakin' road games it hasn't worked out.

But you know what the sad part is? The vets are NOT putting the pressure on BB to replace the younger players with excellent play. So here we sit. 0-2-0. Every single forward has been garbage. Will finish in mediocrity cause trading the vets is a no-no and eventually they will string enough wins together just to miss the playoffs and pick 14th in the draft, drafting another mediocre forward for this mediocre team.

 

[Aceofspades]

It's relevant to my understanding of your posts, which seemed to be based purely on the statistics. If you think that looking at the stats from last night is enough to conclude that Kunin was actually our best center, there's not a lot to discuss.

Well I will watch the whole game but I have seen it partly allready, something specific you would want me to observe?
Some plays? Repeated mistakes? Anything?

 

[Aceofspades]

Boudreau seems to be doing everything he can right now to make sure that Kunin doesn't have to be a 200 foot player.

Koivu's offensive upside was a 70 point player. I'd be shocked if Kunin gets there.

Boudreau is clearly trying to pump offensive from Kunin, could it be that he thinks he is the best center?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Another guy that didn't watch the game but wants to break it down.

There was no actual game-specific analysis in my post. The fact that you think there is suggests you either didn't read my post or you have no credible argument against what I said.

 

[Bazeek]

Well I will watch the whole game but I have seen it partly allready, something specific you would want me to observe?
Some plays? Repeated mistakes? Anything?

I want you to count the number of actual scoring opportunities that Kunin generated or participated in.

 

[Aceofspades]

I'm a Zuccarello fan and don't want to see him gone at all. But, he hasn't been good. The only difference between him and Staal is Zuccarello is actually responsible for a couple of the goals that Staal took the blame for.

A fan of Zuccarello? He is purely dead weight and a cap hit, continuation to Heatley , Vanek etc. dinosaurs come to die in Minnesota.

 

[Aceofspades]

I want you to count the number of actual scoring opportunities that Kunin generated or participated in.

Will do.
In your opinion what needed to happen that did not happen?

 

[2Pair]

Watching a game and seeing it enforcing you own agenda against facts is not giving a very level-headed impression of yourself.

Feel free to dispute my analysis of what happened last night with anything relevant. The fact that everyone who actually watched the games are arguing against your point, should probably be a hint for you.

 

[2Pair]

There was no actual game-specific analysis in my post. The fact that you think there is suggests you either didn't read my post or you have no credible argument against what I said.

The entire discussion is that Kunin's analytics and actual play on the ice aren't really lining up. Nothing you said was worth reading.

 

[Aceofspades]

Feel free to dispute my analysis of what happened last night with anything relevant. The fact that everyone who actually watched the games are arguing against your point, should probably be a hint for you.

Couple a guys in this forum are arguing, not even everyone here, you know what they say about opinions in your country.

 

[2Pair]

Couple a guys in this forum are arguing, not even everyone here, you know what they say about opinions in your country.

yeah, 2 guys that didn't watch the game.

 

[Aceofspades]

The entire discussion is that Kunin's analytics and actual play on the ice aren't really lining up. Nothing you said was worth reading.

Pretty low.

 

[Bazeek]

Will do.
In your opinion what needed to happen that did not happen?

Honestly? I don't know and I'll be the first to admit that my opinions about the finer points of this game are flawed. If you're looking for a detailed break-down of Kunin's game, I can't provide that.

But from what I saw last night, despite favorable deployment Kunin's line didn't generate many actual scoring chances. If the stats say otherwise, maybe I'm wrong, and I have no problem admitting that. But if I'm being told to defer to a spreadsheet by someone who hasn't actually watched the game, then I'm not willing to do that. Sorry.

 

[Aceofspades]

Honestly? I don't know and I'll be the first to admit that my opinions about the finer points of this game are flawed. If you're looking for a detailed break-down of Kunin's game, I can't provide that.

But from what I saw last night, despite favorable deployment Kunin's line didn't generate many actual scoring chances. If the stats say otherwise, maybe I'm wrong, and I have no problem admitting that. But if I'm being told to defer to a spreadsheet by someone who hasn't actually watched the game, then I'm not willing to do that. Sorry.

Here might be an issue, actual scoring chance might mean very different things to different people.
Your general impression, did you see offensive potential, with better passing, speed, timing, rythm, flow?
Or did you see it as a wholly barren desert?

 

[2Pair]

Honestly? I don't know and I'll be the first to admit that my opinions about the finer points of this game are flawed. If you're looking for a detailed break-down of Kunin's game, I can't provide that.

But from what I saw last night, despite favorable deployment Kunin's line didn't generate many actual scoring chances. If the stats say otherwise, maybe I'm wrong, and I have no problem admitting that. But if I'm being told to defer to a spreadsheet by someone who hasn't actually watched the game, then I'm not willing to do that. Sorry.

Here's a perfect example of the point that I'm trying to make.

In the 3rd period Greenway wins a puck battle, cycles up the LW boards in the offensive zone.Hands the puck off to Suter skating towards the goalline. Suter throws the puck back to Greenway in the faceoff circle. Greenway gets a shot on net and the rebound falls at the feet of Kunin who is fighting for position with a Avs defenseman. Kunin swings at the puck while falling down and the puck is cleared.

On the analytical side of things, this is a HDSC for Kunin. Pretty much the best thing a player can do short of actually scoring a goal.

On the watch the game side of things, this a failure for Kunin. I'm not going to really hold it agaisnt the kid for losing a puck battle, but it certainly isn't something that he should be getting any credit for either.