Speculation: Front Office

Should Rutherford Stay or Go?


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    147

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
8,320
8,854
So yeah, the title is total bullshit then. That's what I figured.

What makes that title worse is that it suggests that JR wants to keep Johnson for a long time, not just for next year. JR made no indication that he "wants" to keep JJ with those comments. One is that he's a solid defenseman with the right partner, and the other is saying he'll play out his contract and then some in the NHL. The article title sounds like JR is saying "we want JJ to stay here until he retires", which is a downright lie from what JR said.

OT but ever since you changed your avi I keep thinking I’m you and you’re me.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,726
46,708
OT but ever since you changed your avi I keep thinking I’m you and you’re me.
I've had this avatar ever since like 2017 :laugh:

C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,522
25,377
So yeah, the title is total bullshit then. That's what I figured.

What makes that title worse is that it suggests that JR wants to keep Johnson for a long time, not just for next year. JR made no indication that he "wants" to keep JJ with those comments. One is that he's a solid defenseman with the right partner, and the other is saying he'll play out his contract and then some in the NHL. The article title sounds like JR is saying "we want JJ to stay here until he retires", which is a downright lie from what JR said.

Looking at it very closely, yeah, Rutherford avoids saying anything like "I want JJ to be here next season". He says everything possible nice about him other than that. Yohe adds the bits about Rutherford wanting him to stay. And maybe Rutherford's tone/words not put into the interview indicated that but if it did, Yohe made a boo-boo by not making that clear. Maybe he thought he has, but he hasn't. If my course in Penguins Kreminology has taught me anything, it's that this is the word choice of a Rutherford who's talking up the situation as much as possible without committing to it, which is often a precursor to him leaving the situation.

I still expect nothing at this stage.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
I don't know. I think JR should be replaced and I think his magic is gone, but I don't really see anything wrong with trying to salvage a depreciating asset's value any way possible.

I don't think it is going to work in Johnson's case, but whatever.

If this team isn't going to spend to the cap (debatable), if they are not going to be winning anything anytime soon, then we don't have to really do anything with Johnson. Aside from his cap hit and term, he would make a solid No. 7 defenseman.

So, promote Joseph as the No. 3 left defenseman and use Johnson when injuries hit. You can play Joseph with Ruhwedel if you can't find a better option. OR, we could even play Joseph with Letang if we are making big changes to the defense.

My main point is, I would not waste precious future assets just to get rid of Johnson. That is partly the reason why we are in dire straits from an organizational standpoint right now.

We have many issues with this team right now. Sure, Jack Johnson is one of them. But if he does not play all the time, you are already solving some of the problems.

I certainly prefer using Johnson as a No. 7 D over the prospect of spending money to find this ideal mystical partner for a third-pairing veteran defenseman.

What we need for that third-pairing D (the Schultz roster spot) is someone who could take over the reigns on the first PP unit.

Whether that means playing with Jack Johnson, Pierre-Olivier Joseph or Scooby-Doo. It matters little.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,285
28,264
Guys guys guys... all of you saying stuff like "just use him as a 7D and see what happens."

You've been watching the last two years, I assume? You know who the coach is, yes?
 
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Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
Guys guys guys... all of you saying stuff like "just use him as a 7D and see what happens."

You've been watching the last two years, I assume? You know who the coach is, yes?

Yeah but Sullivan's leash is as short as a sausage dog tied to a fire hydrant.

We don't know who the coach responsible for the defense will even be at this point. So, even though Sullivan is still around, it won't necessarily be "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" next season.

For all we know, JR is merely posturing in Johnson's case.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,285
28,264
If I had anything to bet you... I'd bet it all. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that Sullivan won't happily trot the guy out every single game next season. He plays him in crucial, season-ending situations. He gets a letter when there are injuries. He will often play nearly as much as the second pairing guys.

I do like your sausage dog simile, though.
 
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Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
22,197
25,676
JR has nothing else to say. If I was him that’s exactly the selling point I would use. “Great teammate, physically fit, can play on your third pair and provide a certain element with the right partner” It’s not a story.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
39,728
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Injured Reserve
Honestly if anything the full quote paints JR as an even bigger clown than I was originally anticipating.

You can just FEEL the spite and pettiness dripping off this guy.

The "anti-Jack Johnson people?" Are we running a prestigious hockey club or fighting Twitter wars, here?

Yeah, JR always manages to come off as very emotionally invested in JJ and it’s been like that since day 1. It adds a concern that if someone would take him JR would be difficult about the price because of said emotional investment.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,367
79,410
Redmond, WA
FWIW Gonchar was let go because he wouldn't switch to a full time coach apparently. I get why they let go of him if he wasn't willing to move to Pittsburgh and become a full time coach.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Yeah, JR always manages to come off as very emotionally invested in JJ and it’s been like that since day 1. It adds a concern that if someone would take him JR would be difficult about the price because of said emotional investment.
Yeah I just read JRs comment and both him and Sullivan seem to like him which just shows how badly both need to be gone asap and take JJ with them.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,409
22,995
Yeah I just read JRs comment and both him and Sullivan seem to like him which just shows how badly both need to be gone asap and take JJ with them.
I genuinely don't see a scenario where we deal JJ while those two are still here. They view JJ as a far better player than he is (or really ever has been) so the thought of having to pay someone an extra asset to take what they view as a solid defenseman is unthinkable to them.

I know JR has looked into moving JJ previously, but I'm sure it came down to another team either wanting extra to take him or wanting the Pens to take a bad contract back. For JR and Sully--the latter more so than the former, imo--that's a non-starter.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I genuinely don't see a scenario where we deal JJ while those two are still here. They view JJ as a far better player than he is (or really ever has been) so the thought of having to pay someone an extra asset to take what they view as a solid defenseman is unthinkable to them.

I know JR has looked into moving JJ previously, but I'm sure it came down to another team either wanting extra to take him or wanting the Pens to take a bad contract back. For JR and Sully--the latter more so than the former, imo--that's a non-starter.
Just cull the whole f***ing management. Honestly just sick of all the people there - gm, agm, head coach...

Piss off, you JJ loving wankers.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,409
22,995
Just cull the whole f***ing management. Honestly just sick of all the people there - gm, agm, head coach...

Piss off, you JJ loving wankers.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I don't see any progress being made, with regard to moving JJ or meaningful progression toward being a legit contender again, as long as JR/Sully are around.

I really think we're basically back where we were at when Shero/Bylsma were finally fired. A few good pieces surrounded by garbage, tons of roster work to do, and a new set of eyes/approach needed in order to salvage this thing. The only difference is that the core is now 33/34 as opposed to 28/29.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
39,728
7,402
Injured Reserve
Yeah I just read JRs comment and both him and Sullivan seem to like him which just shows how badly both need to be gone asap and take JJ with them.

It’s a simple litmus test. Genuinely supporting this JJ mess behind the scenes? Gone. It’s either showing a serious problem with player assessment or emotions are governing things.

The really dangerous thing is that they both seem to like him. If it was just one it would be less catastrophic.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,409
22,995
I mean, they both like him. JR won't accept the fact that he has to part with a significant asset in order to get a team to take JJ off our hands because he thinks JJ is a fine enough bottom pairing blueliner. Sully thinks more highly of him, as evidenced by the dude constantly dressing and playing substantial minutes in important situations.

This isn't a smoke screen. The front office and coaching staff genuinely like Jack Johnson as a hockey player. /shrug
 
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Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
22,197
25,676
I mean, they both like him. JR won't accept the fact that he has to part with a significant asset in order to get a team to take JJ off our hands because he thinks JJ is a fine enough bottom pairing blueliner. Sully thinks more highly of him, as evidenced by the dude constantly dressing and playing substantial minutes in important situations.

This isn't a smoke screen. The front office and coaching staff genuinely like Jack Johnson as a hockey player. /shrug

They already tried to trade him before. It’s not smart to package him with valuable stuff when you still have time to sell him as an asset in and of himself.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
They already tried to trade him before. It’s not smart to package him with valuable stuff when you still have time to sell him as an asset in and of himself.
JR is either trying to play an elaborate mind f*** to a few dipshit Gms or its troubling he feels that way truly about him. As mentioned he's tried to deal him before apparently as a Penguin. So maybe this is some ploy to say..


1. The contract isn't bad and crippling so as to make it seem like the Pens aren't desperate.
2. He talked about him getting a step or two quicker which is selling his commitment to adapting to the game.
3. He's talked about his usage and specifically a role as a 3rd pairing guy that plays a heavy game and just needs the right partner.

So either he really thinks he should keep him or likes him or he's doing the talking up thing to make sure only positive stuff is out there to sell his commitment, contract and how he should be used, to other Gms out there.

Is the senile wanker playing all of us or just senile af.
 

Pittsburgh1776

Registered User
Aug 9, 2010
5,274
4,638
Terrible article...so JR says JJ maybe isn't as good as he thought, but not AS BAD as others say. Real vote of confidence for JJ right there. Then lists a bunch of conditions that have to be met for him to be an effective 3rd pair D. Real vote of confidence there. Why are people dumping on JR? What am I missing? Those are some of the most cringe backhanded compliments you can make about someone..
 
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Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,237
8,031
JR has been blindly defending JJ since it was announced that the Pens signed him. It’s just so tiresome at this point.
 

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