Manson+Comtois for Nylander adds grit to the 1st pair and to the 3rd line. Add Clifford re-signed to that mix and I think you have an adequate amount of "grit".
Free Agents and Trade Thread - Training camp edition
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Manson+Comtois for Nylander adds grit to the 1st pair and to the 3rd line. Add Clifford re-signed to that mix and I think you have an adequate amount of "grit".
You do realize that Willie actually scored more goals than anyone playing for the Panthers this past season, right. A mid 1st and Tippett for someone who can put up 30+goals and 30+assists with a reasonable contract sounds more like a capdump than Hockey Trade. Beside what will the Leafs do with the 7mil cap space? Not enough to sign Pietra and the few Dman available that fits the Leafs is really Tanev and thats assuming Robertson can fill Willie's spot.
stickty111
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Yeah except for one thing. Nylander is way better then Manson. Also Manson has had only one good year, and has been average other then that. He is not a 1st pair guy or even close to it. Comtois doesn't make up the difference in value.
Whats with the fascination with players like Manson, and then trading very good players for him which makes us much worse?
stickty111
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Marner is also one of the softest players in the league, and this season was also lazy.
He could take some lessons from Willy on how to be good in all areas of the ice.
When Marner avoids any physical play, it adds another flaw to his one dimensional game.
He could take some lessons from Willy on how to be good in all areas of the ice.
When Marner avoids any physical play, it adds another flaw to his one dimensional game.
Dreakmur
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I feel like you're only looking at his offensive numbers and making a judgement off of that. Are you basing the "one good year" argument on the fact that he only had one year that he scored 37 points? The leafs don't need another offensive guy. They need someone who can stop defend, stop a cycle and play a much safer game on the backend against top competition. Manson is played almost exclusively in defensive matchups against the other teams top competition on a nightly basis. He played against top competition more than anyone on the leafs blueline this past season (including Rielly and Muzzin). He's a guy you don't have to shelter, and Keefe will have no issues putting him against other teams top lines. Manson also adds another element to the game, that none of the leafs top players have.
Manson is a good Dman, no doubt about it, but it won't be Comotis and Manson for Willie. The fact that Kesler probably won't come back and Ducks is on the hook for his contract might help the Leafs getting Manson without using Marner or Willie.
Okay, by all means, whatever it takes to get him, they should. If it's less than that, even better.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
Something that keeps getting lost in the trade Marner/Nylander proposals is people seem really focused on shedding salary, when the Leafs if they move one of them will be looking to rebalance salary towards other needs (be it a D man or power forward) rather than looking to just shed it (unless they have a clear target in free agency)
Id have no interest in trading either guy for futures: I'd want a core player coming back in the deal, so Leafs would be taking back money (which should in turn make negotiating a deal easier)
Id have no interest in trading either guy for futures: I'd want a core player coming back in the deal, so Leafs would be taking back money (which should in turn make negotiating a deal easier)
Id rather a player like Broberg than Manson. The best core players you can get in a trade are prospects that will turn into core players.
This is a recipe for a disaster. Neither guy has proven that they can handle being in a 1A/1B situation in the NHL...Primeau has only played 2 NHL games.
TheMadHatTrick
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Agreed. That's an ideal swap. Get a gritty RD and a gritty LW while shaving 2.9M off the cap. If there were some way to expand a deal to include Gibson and ditch Anderson that would be a franchise altering trade.
I realize that it is heresy to discuss a Matthews trade, but for the purpose of discussion, would the team be better off in the end? (not just next year, but down the road)
To Ottawa: Matthews, Johnsson
To Toronto: 3rd OA, 5th OA, L. Brown, 2nd, 3rd round picks.
To LA: 3rd OA, Kerfoot, Holl
To Toronto: 2nd OA, 2nd round pick
To Anaheim: Kapanen, Dermott (@2x1.75M)
To Toronto: Manson
FA signings:
Taylor Hall: 4x7M
Chris Tanev: 3x4.1M
Jake Virtanen: 2x1.75M (or similar 3rd line player)
Draft:
2 OA: Byfield or Stutzle (I prefer Byfield)
5 OA: Drysdale
3 2nd round picks, 1 3rd, and 9 picks 4th-6th rounds (a chance to re-stock the cupboard/deal?)
Team:
Hall Tavares Marner (29 M)
Byfield Nylander Hyman (integrate Byfield to C if/when appropriate, I think Nylander can compete at C, N can slide to either side as can Hyman if Byfield succeeds at C) (10.25ish M)
Mykheyev Brown Barabonov/Virtanen (4.5ish M max)
Robertson Engvall Barabonov/Virtanen (4ish M max)
Spezza .8M Thornton .8M
approx 50M on Fs
*Tavares will age, but is certainly still a competent #1C, and could be moved over to W when/if Byfield shows the expected growth. With Brown and Engvall behind him our future at C looks promising, and BIG!
Rielly Manson (9.1M)
Muzzin Liljegren (6.5 M)
Sandin Tanev (5M)
Lehtonen .925M Rosen .9M
approx 22 M
*Much of this is based on a conversation @biotk and I had regarding the development of young defensemen. To paraphrase (and any misrepresentation of his ideas are because of me), allow a Liljgren/Sandin to develop knowing they will be put out regardless, but give them the chance to succeed by playing them with capable, intelligent defense partners so that the kids can learn. Drysdale gets two years more to develop and grow, we have the picks to find another prospect with upside.
Andersen/Campbell
6.65M
*Move on from Andersen as you wish.
Cap: 78.65M allowing for 3 million flexibility. Oops, forgot Kessel at 1.2M, 1.8 M flexibility.
To Ottawa: Matthews, Johnsson
To Toronto: 3rd OA, 5th OA, L. Brown, 2nd, 3rd round picks.
To LA: 3rd OA, Kerfoot, Holl
To Toronto: 2nd OA, 2nd round pick
To Anaheim: Kapanen, Dermott (@2x1.75M)
To Toronto: Manson
FA signings:
Taylor Hall: 4x7M
Chris Tanev: 3x4.1M
Jake Virtanen: 2x1.75M (or similar 3rd line player)
Draft:
2 OA: Byfield or Stutzle (I prefer Byfield)
5 OA: Drysdale
3 2nd round picks, 1 3rd, and 9 picks 4th-6th rounds (a chance to re-stock the cupboard/deal?)
Team:
Hall Tavares Marner (29 M)
Byfield Nylander Hyman (integrate Byfield to C if/when appropriate, I think Nylander can compete at C, N can slide to either side as can Hyman if Byfield succeeds at C) (10.25ish M)
Mykheyev Brown Barabonov/Virtanen (4.5ish M max)
Robertson Engvall Barabonov/Virtanen (4ish M max)
Spezza .8M Thornton .8M
approx 50M on Fs
*Tavares will age, but is certainly still a competent #1C, and could be moved over to W when/if Byfield shows the expected growth. With Brown and Engvall behind him our future at C looks promising, and BIG!
Rielly Manson (9.1M)
Muzzin Liljegren (6.5 M)
Sandin Tanev (5M)
Lehtonen .925M Rosen .9M
approx 22 M
*Much of this is based on a conversation @biotk and I had regarding the development of young defensemen. To paraphrase (and any misrepresentation of his ideas are because of me), allow a Liljgren/Sandin to develop knowing they will be put out regardless, but give them the chance to succeed by playing them with capable, intelligent defense partners so that the kids can learn. Drysdale gets two years more to develop and grow, we have the picks to find another prospect with upside.
Andersen/Campbell
6.65M
*Move on from Andersen as you wish.
Cap: 78.65M allowing for 3 million flexibility. Oops, forgot Kessel at 1.2M, 1.8 M flexibility.
I wonder is Dallas would move one or two of Hintz/Faska/Dickinson/Gurianov for Kerfoot and Johnsson.
They need offense badly at a decent price with the other cap hits they have up front. Both Faska and Dickinson specialize in heavy defensive zone starts and throw the body around a bit as bigger centers. Actually control the puck pretty well too.
They need offense badly at a decent price with the other cap hits they have up front. Both Faska and Dickinson specialize in heavy defensive zone starts and throw the body around a bit as bigger centers. Actually control the puck pretty well too.
From what I remember the late 90s and early 2000s the leafs didn't have any flashy players they were mostly comprised of heart and soul grit guys. Yeah they didn't win a cup but they actually won playoff rounds with Guys who are terrible in the back end like Cory Cross or Aki Berg.
Mind you they did have Cujo or Eddie in net who would always make the big saves and keep the team in it even with the terrible D.
Mind you they did have Cujo or Eddie in net who would always make the big saves and keep the team in it even with the terrible D.
Trapper
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To me, this is how the Leafs are built.
The Leafs are Rocky in this scene and the NHL playoffs are Clubber Lang.
Until Dubas realizes this is the big boy league...
Maybe not; I just hope for the best with all the players, and he trended really well up until this year.
I like him, I wouldn’t bend over backwards to get him.
I prefer keeping the pick 30 spots earlier.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Well those picks/prospects can be used to another trade to bring in that d-man or power forward you're talking about too .. I just have a harder time seeing a 1 for 1 trade that makes sense.
Very different times.
They did have guys with flash and skill, but they were also able to overpay bottom of the lineup players to fill those roles. Without the salary cap you were able to fill your roster with great veteran players and fill out the rest of your roster.
At one point you had:
Sundin
Mogilny
Nieuwendyk
Leetch
Belfour
Francis
McCabe
Kaberle
Nolan
Roberts
Tucker
Reichel
Antropov
Ponikarovsky
Renberg
Stajan
-All these guys were on the roster and they still got bounced in the 2nd round even with grinders like Domi/Marchment/Perrott/Belak on the roster too.
-As good as you can build your team you still need some breaks to go your way and they simply didn't against Columbus despite us controlling most of the play and being the better team for the most part.
I remember lots of people talking about how Mats didn’t play tough enough, no heart, a soft European player. As a fanbase we definitely likes hardnose gritty player better than softer skilled players. I love big hits, fights, board battles, playoff type hockey.
Hopefully Dubas can adjust the roster with a few tougher players to balance things out. Imho skill is probably the hardest thing to find though and we’ve got loads it on this team, enough to sacrifice a bit for trades.
dubplatepressure
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Soooo many of us were calling - hoping - begging even - for a player like Boone Jenner, or Josh Anderson, or Charlie Coyle, Barclay Goodrow, or Blake Coleman, or Jamie Oleksiak, or Eric Gudbranson, or Brendan Dillon, etc etc to be targeted not only at this past TDL but the last one too. Guess we got one in Clifford, but playing 4th line minutes it's hard to make an impact.
SeaOfBlue
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They did pick up Muzzin, and a lot of those guys were either not available, are flat out bad, or way too expensive for what they provide. I'm not giving up 2 1st round picks for a guy like Coleman.
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