Free Agents and Trade Thread - Training camp edition

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[TML1967]

For Braccos trade value, if he can be traded at all I would be surprised.

Why pay for a guy not even in a teams top 30, who is about to become a UFA (assuming Leafs dont qualify him) unless your giving back a contract for a young player you have also given up on/a guy you want off the books.

Maybe a cash strapped team with a large AHL contract they want gone. For the Leafs, if its a guy who is a bit older but could fill in as a depth move could be nice.

Matt Tennyson from NJD, a 30 AHL RHD who has played a few NHL games, but is owed 350k in the minors they may want gone if other young D have passed him.
Same goes for Michael Chaput, a 28 y.o C who has bounced between the AHL and NHL a few times, owed 300k in the minors.

 

[4thline]

Looking ahead a year, if Andersen wants more than 5.5 I think we turn to New York (or New York via Seattle) for a goalie. Both teams are going to be hurting cap wise and will need to shed a goalie.

 

[Legion34]

Looking ahead a year, if Andersen wants more than 5.5 I think we turn to New York (or New York via Seattle) for a goalie. Both teams are going to be hurting cap wise and will need to shed a goalie.

demko/ Campbell could work.
I think Freddie won’t get. A raise

 

[4thline]

demko/ Campbell could work.
I think Freddie won’t get. A raise

Demko could, or Georgiev/Varly if the Russian kids are as good as advertized

 

[SeaOfBlue]

For Braccos trade value, if he can be traded at all I would be surprised.

Why pay for a guy not even in a teams top 30, who is about to become a UFA (assuming Leafs dont qualify him) unless your giving back a contract for a young player you have also given up on/a guy you want off the books.

Maybe a cash strapped team with a large AHL contract they want gone. For the Leafs, if its a guy who is a bit older but could fill in as a depth move could be nice.

Matt Tennyson from NJD, a 30 AHL RHD who has played a few NHL games, but is owed 350k in the minors they may want gone if other young D have passed him.
Same goes for Michael Chaput, a 28 y.o C who has bounced between the AHL and NHL a few times, owed 300k in the minors.

I mean unless it came out that he had some kind of damning personal issue (i.e. he was responsible for the cocaine thing in Kitchener), then no team is going to want touch him no matter what. Outside of that though, the Leafs are not going to give him away for free (or even cheap). Why would they when he is at least a very valuable AHL player with a ton of upside? Worst case they put him on waivers and lose him that way.

We can get better guys than Tennyson and Chaput in UFA, so it's a waste of money and a contract on our part. We'd be better off just non-tendering him.

I think if we are looking at a trade partner, we could either attach him to a trade with a guy like Johnsson or Kerfoot, or we could look at a prospect swap like trading him for Henrik Borgstrom from Florida, who is also not on the Panthers' return to play roster and has struggled despite being a former 1st round pick. He's a large center with skill and IQ, which is right up our alley, is the same age (both 97' born players) and he is waiver eligible next year too. However, he may end up in the KHL next year so he would be a longer term investment (but we get to hold onto his rights at least), while Bracco would be someone who can step in directly to try and replace Dadonov and Hoffman on the RW for Florida. Since they wanted to cut a ton of salary even before Covid-19, they probably have a lot more interest in guys like Bracco than when they traded Malgin for Marchment (they are probably having some regrets right about now, since Marchment is not on their return to play roster either)... And Bracco has more upside/skill than Malgin. We may give them a conditional pick in case Bracco is lost due to waivers, since we'd be able to keep Borgstrom's rights if he is in the KHL, however it is a situation that works extremely well for both teams.

 

[TML1967]

I mean unless it came out that he had some kind of damning personal issue (i.e. he was responsible for the cocaine thing in Kitchener), then no team is going to want touch him no matter what. Outside of that though, the Leafs are not going to give him away for free (or even cheap). Why would they when he is at least a very valuable AHL player with a ton of upside? Worst case they put him on waivers and lose him that way.

We can get better guys than Tennyson and Chaput in UFA, so it's a waste of money and a contract on our part. We'd be better off just non-tendering him.

I think if we are looking at a trade partner, we could either attach him to a trade with a guy like Johnsson or Kerfoot, or we could look at a prospect swap like trading him for Henrik Borgstrom from Florida, who is also not on the Panthers' return to play roster and has struggled despite being a former 1st round pick. He's a large center with skill and IQ, which is right up our alley, is the same age (both 97' born players) and he is waiver eligible next year too. However, he may end up in the KHL next year so he would be a longer term investment (but we get to hold onto his rights at least), while Bracco would be someone who can step in directly to try and replace Dadonov and Hoffman on the RW for Florida. Since they wanted to cut a ton of salary even before Covid-19, they probably have a lot more interest in guys like Bracco than when they traded Malgin for Marchment (they are probably having some regrets right about now, since Marchment is not on their return to play roster either)... And Bracco has more upside/skill than Malgin. We may give them a conditional pick in case Bracco is lost due to waivers, since we'd be able to keep Borgstrom's rights if he is in the KHL, however it is a situation that works extremely well for both teams.

I usually trust CJ's views on how the Leafs view/value guys.
I hope your right, id love to get something decent for him, im just leaning more towards the 'will take anything' at this point.

Like, did he ask for a trade and now is refusing to play? Is he unfit for whatever reason? Do the Leafs not see him as better than the other guys (which is fully possible)?

Who knows

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I usually trust CJ's views on how the Leafs view/value guys.
I hope your right, id love to get something decent for him, im just leaning more towards the 'will take anything' at this point.

Like, did he ask for a trade and now is refusing to play? Is he unfit for whatever reason? Do the Leafs not see him as better than the other guys (which is fully possible)?

Who knows

Could be a mix of a bunch of things. He had personal issues which caused him to miss like a month of play. He hasn't played since February, but was about the return before Covid-19 stopped things. The other guys at least played in March. Then if you look at the other guys who were selected: Korshkov has size and two-way abilty. Petan and Malgin are similar players but have a lot more NHL experience (Bracco has none). Agostino has more NHL experience too and is also a LW with some size. Brooks and Gaudet are centers. Robertson is Robertson. The rest of the guys are full-time NHLers.

Unless he has serious off-ice issues, there is nothing on-ice which suggests the Leafs would not bring him back and just expose him to waivers. If they lose him, then they are in the same spot as if they gave him away for nothing. If they don't, then maybe he does much better next year and is at least a lethal offensive option for the Marlies. That still possesses a ton of value for the Leafs organization. He did not have the best year last year, but Moore had that effect on pretty much everyone and he was rotating around with many ineffective players who struggled to finish off what he started (imagine Marner had to go from Tavares to playing with a rotation of Gauthier and Clifford-quality offensive players, and occasionally getting to play with a Kerfoot and Johnsson, and that is essentially what Bracco had to deal with last year... He went from a top AHL scorer in Mueller to rotating between guys like MacMaster, Gaudet and Elynuik, and occasionally got Brooks and Agostino).

However letting him go for nothing is better than Tennyson and Chaput. Those guys are worse than many UFA options we can sign, and if Bracco does not have off-ice issues and the Leafs still want to trade him, we can get far better in return.

 

[Menzinger]

I usually trust CJ's views on how the Leafs view/value guys.
I hope your right, id love to get something decent for him, im just leaning more towards the 'will take anything' at this point.

Like, did he ask for a trade and now is refusing to play? Is he unfit for whatever reason? Do the Leafs not see him as better than the other guys (which is fully possible)?

Who knows

I dont think hed bring back anything of note. Either a mid to late pick or he'll be a + in a bigger trade.

I think there are a few teams looking for skilled winger depth who may have interest that some type of trade could/will happen

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'm not even sure Bracco will be qualified at this point.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I dont think hed bring back anything of note. Either a mid to late pick or he'll be a + in a bigger trade.

I think there are a few teams looking for skilled winger depth who may have interest that some type of trade could/will happen

I suggested Borgstrom for Bracco on the main boards and they seem to think that Bracco is worthless yet Borgstrom is worth like a 3rd round pick. I would say a little bit of bias there, becuase valuewise they are equivalent prospects. That is the type of return we should be expecting.

I'm not even sure Bracco will be qualified at this point.

For what reason, unless you believe there are off-ice/professionalism issues that far outweigh what he brings on the ice? It literally makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Mickey Marner]

For what reason, unless you believe there are off-ice/professionalism issues that far outweigh what he brings on the ice? It literally makes no sense otherwise.

The team has tacitly established that he'll never play another game for this organization, have failed to move him insofar and his contract spot could be put to better use. I mean, I guess he could be traded for a 7th or a nothing prospect, but there will be better players available in October given the current climate.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The team has tacitly established that he'll never play another game for this organization, have failed to move him insofar and his contract spot could be put to better use. I mean, I guess he could be traded for a 7th or a nothing prospect, but there will be better players available in October given the current climate.

If I am looking for a vet to plug into a depth role for cheap, then yes. If I am looking for guys with upside and the potential to provide good value for their contract, then not really.

He is worth more than a 7th or a nothing prospect (or a free contract spot) because he can fill a huge role for the Marlies. We can get a vet to do the same I guess, but they are probably not better players and definitely have less of a chance of being anything of value for the Leafs.

Leaving him off of the roster does not really mean anything. There is no reason to believe the Leafs will randomly get rid of him without some off-ice issue pushing their decision. His play certain does not warrant it, because he was still one of the Marlies' better forwards last year.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If I am looking for a vet to plug into a depth role for cheap, then yes. If I am looking for guys with upside and the potential to provide good value for their contract, then not really.

He is worth more than a 7th or a nothing prospect (or a free contract spot) because he can fill a huge role for the Marlies. We can get a vet to do the same I guess, but they are probably not better players and definitely have less of a chance of being anything of value for the Leafs.

Leaving him off of the roster does not really mean anything. There is no reason to believe the Leafs will randomly get rid of him without some off-ice issue pushing their decision. His play certain does not warrant it, because he was still one of the Marlies' better forwards last year.

There might not be a CHL, NCAA, Jr.A etc. season next year, not to mention vets both in NA & Europe feeling the financial squeeze. Our management would have to be grossly incompetent to be incapable of segueing a 5'10 top-six or bust waiver-eligible 23 year old RW with zero NHL games coming off a season with four goals who may or may not have a substance abuse problem into anything better. It sucks that his value has depreciated, but no sense committing to a mistake further than is necessary.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

I think we should look into trading for some Ltir contracts like Kesler or Seabrook. Only if they are basically retired.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I think we should look into trading for some Ltir contracts like Kesler or Seabrook. Only if they are basically retired.

Nope we're done with that. It was fine when we were rebuilding, or like last year needed to get close to the cap to accrue money in case Marner was out until December.

Going forward those contracts would do nothing for us except give us zero flexibility to add at the trade deadline.

 

[TML1967]

Nope we're done with that. It was fine when we were rebuilding, or like last year needed to get close to the cap to accrue money in case Marner was out until December.

Going forward those contracts would do nothing for us except give us zero flexibility to add at the trade deadline.

IMO, it all depends on what the + is, and how long the contract is.

If its a 1 year LTIR, and they are willing to give up a good piece, that piece may be bigger than what we may be able to add at the deadline, why not?

I.e. 1 year LTRI guy (preferably who's contract is not insured) + good prospect or pic for a AHL tweener, could be a big value.
We gave up a 1st for Marleau to be bought out, I dont know how to extrapolate how to compare that value if its LTIR deadspace.

Is it similar? Two seconds? ... A guy like Athanasiou? Alec Martinez? Brendan Dillon @50%? Dylan Demello? All went last year for somewhere between two 2nds and 1 3rd.
If you can add a decent piece like that WITHOUT having to give up something from the team, may be worth it.

 

[aingefan]

IMO, it all depends on what the + is, and how long the contract is.

If its a 1 year LTIR, and they are willing to give up a good piece, that piece may be bigger than what we may be able to add at the deadline, why not?

I.e. 1 year LTRI guy (preferably who's contract is not insured) + good prospect or pic for a AHL tweener, could be a big value.
We gave up a 1st for Marleau to be bought out, I dont know how to extrapolate how to compare that value if its LTIR deadspace.

Is it similar? Two seconds? ... A guy like Athanasiou? Alec Martinez? Brendan Dillon @50%? Dylan Demello? All went last year for somewhere between two 2nds and 1 3rd.
If you can add a decent piece like that WITHOUT having to give up something from the team, may be worth it.

Yup, deep pockets are an asset too. consider all options. Well said.

 

[Cor]

IMO, it all depends on what the + is, and how long the contract is.

If its a 1 year LTIR, and they are willing to give up a good piece, that piece may be bigger than what we may be able to add at the deadline, why not?

I.e. 1 year LTRI guy (preferably who's contract is not insured) + good prospect or pic for a AHL tweener, could be a big value.
We gave up a 1st for Marleau to be bought out, I dont know how to extrapolate how to compare that value if its LTIR deadspace.

Is it similar? Two seconds? ... A guy like Athanasiou? Alec Martinez? Brendan Dillon @50%? Dylan Demello? All went last year for somewhere between two 2nds and 1 3rd.
If you can add a decent piece like that WITHOUT having to give up something from the team, may be worth it.

The best thing for us, is to be able to accrue cap space within season, in order to have the room to fill any holes or depth we feel we need at the deadline.

 

[TML1967]

The best thing for us, is to be able to accrue cap space within season, in order to have the room to fill any holes or depth we feel we need at the deadline.

As long as you can
a) use it
b) it doesnt cost you too many assets for the future.

Im not comfortable spending picks or prospects on pure rentals. If its for a longer term piece im more comforatable.

I guess the value proposition, to me is:
LTIR contract + asset they are trading to move it, but not addition.

or

Space at the TDL to improve helps fill a hole, but it costs an asset.
And to have space, we need to be below the cap to start the year which I dont know is possible.

 

[The Wall]

I was wondering. What D Man we could get with a package made out of the following


Trade Kappy for a late 1st in 2020 and a 3rd

trade bracco and johnson for a 2nd and 4th


late 2020 1st(kappy trade)
2nd(johnson)
3rd (kappy)
rights to Dermott

for

Paryko? Pesce? Lindholm?


we clear cap room and are able to easily replace the wing depth from within.

 

[kb]

As long as you can
a) use it
b) it doesnt cost you too many assets for the future.

Im not comfortable spending picks or prospects on pure rentals. If its for a longer term piece im more comforatable.

I guess the value proposition, to me is:
LTIR contract + asset they are trading to move it, but not addition.

or

Space at the TDL to improve helps fill a hole, but it costs an asset.
And to have space, we need to be below the cap to start the year which I dont know is possible.

If the Leafs aren't below the cap for the beginning of this upcoming season, then trading for an LTIR isn't going to help that in any way.

 

[nuck]

I'm not even sure Bracco will be qualified at this point.

Unless they need a contract slot I would say they would do it. Qualify him and back to the minors for $70k. If he has a big year there is going to be more interest than right now, maybe even Seattle as part of some shifting bits to control who the club loses.

 

[TML1967]

If the Leafs aren't below the cap for the beginning of this upcoming season, then trading for an LTIR isn't going to help that in any way.

The act doesnt create cap space, your right.
But if we are already at the cap, taking a bad contract only limits us from adding. Also if we are at the cap, we wont acrue any cap space during the season, so we wont be able to add at the TDL anyway.
The question is in this year, where real cash for some teams will be massive, can you find a 1 year deal with a Horton style LTIR (non insured) to take on to add a good pick or prospect...

 

[Cor]

As long as you can
a) use it
b) it doesnt cost you too many assets for the future.

Im not comfortable spending picks or prospects on pure rentals. If its for a longer term piece im more comforatable.

I guess the value proposition, to me is:
LTIR contract + asset they are trading to move it, but not addition.

or

Space at the TDL to improve helps fill a hole, but it costs an asset.
And to have space, we need to be below the cap to start the year which I dont know is possible.

We need to accrue cap space by not using LTIR for any move we want to make.

The only reason we were able to trade for Campbell and Clifford this past year is because we happened to have guys get hurt freeing up space, and we still needed LA to hang onto half of Clifford’s cap space and needed to give them Moore from our roster.

if we stayed healthy January and February of this year, the only way we could do that deal is if we matched salaries exactly essentially.